Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #15 *Arrest*

[L_B]

Notice how the prosecution closing was laid out and grouped all the points together, to lay it out all nicely to the jury and for their case to "make sense".

The defense closing is going back and forth on the various topics, to confuse the jurors right?

 

[drsleuth]

16:08

Patterson's weight may have played a part in effect of poison, jury heard​

Mr Mandy said Dr Gerostamoulos said poisonings occur much more in Europe than they do in the US and Australia.
Dr Gerostamoulos also said there were various factors which effect 'variation in an outcome' after ingesting poison.
'Not everyone suffers the same… how much poison was in their portion, how evenly spread was the poison we cannot tell,' Mr Mandy said.
Mr Mandy said other factors included how much death cap poison the body absorbed and whether the person threw up after eating.
Mr Mandy said weight is also a factor.
'And as you know, Erin weighed over 100kg [at the time of the lunch],' Mr Mandy said.
Mr Mandy said other factors were age and a person's 'toxic response'.
'Some people are Grade 1, others aren't,' Mr Mandy said.
Dr Rogers said Dr Gerostamoulos was asked if the same people ate the same amount of poison and one survived would there would be 'adverse outcomes' for the survivor.
Mr Mandy said Dr Gerostamoulos said there would 'likely' be adverse outcomes but that 'severity' would depend on the factors previously explained.


16:08

Defence accuses prosecution of 'misleading the jury'​

Mr Mandy again accused Dr Rogers of misleading the jury when summarising expert evidence during her closings.
This was related to the severity of illness a person might suffer when eating the same portion of poison.
Mr Mandy suggested the prosecution had not provided the jury the full story in its final address.

Erin Patterson mushroom murder trial LIVE updates

Follow Daily Mail Australia's live coverage of accused mushroom chef Erin Patterson's murder trial here.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[drsleuth]

Yes! she emphatically stated she did not re taste the duxelle after adding the dried mushrooms

Yep I think it went something like " You might, I didn't" from memory

 

[drsleuth]

16:14

Patterson's mushrooms under the microscope​

Mr Mandy (pictured left) has taken the jury to how many mushrooms Patterson said she used in the Wellingtons and how she prepared them.
'Patterson claimed there were three different kinds of mushrooms in the meal,' Mr Mandy said
'By far the bulk of those are the button mushrooms, by far.'
Mr Mandy said there was no evidence blitzing mushrooms would destroy the spores of death caps.
He also said there was support for Patterson's claims she used three types of mushrooms.
The trial has concluded for the day and Daily Mail Australia's live coverage will resume at 8am local time on Thursday, June 19.

Erin Patterson mushroom murder trial LIVE updates

Follow Daily Mail Australia's live coverage of accused mushroom chef Erin Patterson's murder trial here.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[katydid23]

Why is it even relevant?

It's relevant because she used that 'SCHEDULED' bariatric surgery as her excuse for lying to the in-laws about her needing chemotherapy soon. And that she needed help with the kids during the surgery, etc.

And that could have made some people sympathetic about her reason for lying about the cancer.

So when we found out that there was NO surgery scheduled and never was any scheduled, that is important because it shows she was just MANIPULATING her audience when she told that excuse for the cancer lie.

The she pivoted and said she meant liposuction not bariatric surgery----but that makes no sense because she wouldn't need childcare help for a Lipo treatment.

But that liposuction explanation was another lie because she never had a scheduled liposuction either.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Oh My Lord---the defense is going with the funny smelling Asian mushrooms as being a true story.

IMO there was a lot of evidence put forward showing those were lies about that Asian Market --that she originally just said Woolies, but added the Asian market in later she couldn't even place which town it was in,and named several different ones--- that no other people were ever poisoned by Asian mushrooms from those suburbs, and the health department put lots of effort and resources into tracking down that market, unsuccessfully. But the D now says ' It is clear that his client told the truth about that.'

Defence have never deviated from Erin's story of buying mushrooms from the Asian grocers. They're deliberately using this lie from EP in the hope that it creates some doubt in the minds of the jury.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

It's relevant because she used that 'SCHEDULED' bariatric surgery as her excuse for lying to the in-laws about her needing chemotherapy soon. And that she needed help with the kids during the surgery, etc.

And that could have made some people sympathetic about her reason for lying about the cancer.

So when we found out that there was NO surgery scheduled and never was any scheduled, that is important because it shows she was just MANIPULATING her audience when she told that excuse for the cancer lie.

The she pivoted and said she meant liposuction not bariatric surgery----but that makes no sense because she wouldn't need childcare help for a Lipo treatment.

But that liposuction explanation was another lie because she never had a scheduled liposuction either.

Yes, of course. I realised that after I posted my comment...

 

[drsleuth]

Key Event
3m ago

Defence raises possibility of third mushroom species​

By Judd Boaz​

The defence then posits the possibility of a third mushroom species present in the lunch leftovers.

Mr Mandy says microscopic analysis from Camille Truong at the Royal Botanic Gardens did not show death cap mushrooms residue.

He also raised the testimony of plant virology specialist David Lovelock, who found no evidence of death cap mushroom residue in the leftover food.

However, a second mushroom species was detected in addition to button mushrooms.

Mr Mandy tells the jury this could suggest a third, unknown mushroom species in the leftovers.

Earlier in the trial, the court heard Dr Lovelock's tests were more than 99 per cent positive for death cap mushroom residue in the dehydrator.

Key Event
2m ago

That's all for today​

By Judd Boaz​

Justice Beale calls for court to be adjourned, and the jury is led out.

Colin Mandy SC will continue the defence's closing arguments tomorrow morning.

Surviving lunch guest 'honestly mistaken', defence tells Erin Patterson jury — as it happened

Erin Patterson's defence lawyer is continuing his closing address to the jury after eight weeks of evidence in the triple-murder trial.

www.abc.net.au

 

[drsleuth]

4.21pm

‘Not everyone suffers the same’: Patterson may have reacted differently to poison​

By​

Defence barrister Colin Mandy, SC, said that if Patterson were lying about binge-eating the leftover cake from the lunch and vomiting afterwards, she would have told the jury that that happened as soon as the guests left. But Patterson, in her evidence, told the jury she could not remember exactly when she had thrown up or what the contents of her vomit were.

“Instead, because it’s true, she can’t be more precise than that,” Mandy argued.

Turning to Patterson’s symptoms, Mandy said that several hours before anyone ate the lunch on July 29, 2023, Patterson had already tasted the food as part of her preparation. “She was stirring and tasting the duxelles [mushroom mince] … and that’s why she added the dried mushrooms to it,” he said.

He acknowledged the progression of Patterson’s illness was different to those of the other guests, and raised the question of whether she could have consumed the same meal – including the poison – but not gotten as sick as the others.

He pointed the jury to a study from Germany that suggested people could consume the same meal and develop different grades of illness severity. “Not everyone suffers the same,” he said.

Mandy said that illness severity depended on how much poison there was in a person’s portion, how much they consumed, if they threw up, their weight, their age and their toxic response to poisons.

“Erin … may have reacted much better to consuming the same meal,” Mandy said.

Mandy referred to evidence from forensic toxicologist Dimitri Gerostamoulos, whose evidence, he said, was that the severity of disease may vary depending on those factors. Mandy said the prosecution’s closing argument had “many times” selectively referred to only part of the evidence in the case, including about the dinner plates and Gerostamoulos’ evidence.

Mandy said Patterson was younger, heavier and might have had a different toxic response to the other lunch guests.

Erin Patterson murder trial day 34 as it happened: Defence barrister Colin Mandy tells jury accused mushroom cook wanted to be close to in-laws; may have reacted differently to consuming to poison

Patterson’s barrister will continue his closing address in Morwell’s courtroom four on Thursday, after the judge warned jurors to expect a long direction from the bench next week.

www.theage.com.au

 

[L_B]

However, a second mushroom species was detected in addition to button mushrooms.

is this the first time we (public) are hearing this?

 

[drsleuth]

​

5m ago

Defence says no evidence Erin Patterson's illness was incongruous to lunch guests​

​

By Judd Boaz​

The defence argues that it is possible that Erin Patterson could have started experiencing symptoms earlier than her guests, and that there is no evidence to suggest otherwise.

He also notes that the only report the jury has of the timing of Ms Patterson's illness comes from Simon Patterson, who said he "vaguely" remembers her mentioning 4pm or 4:30pm.

"Vaguely," Mr Mandy repeats.

Surviving lunch guest 'honestly mistaken', defence tells Erin Patterson jury — as it happened

Erin Patterson's defence lawyer is continuing his closing address to the jury after eight weeks of evidence in the triple-murder trial.

www.abc.net.au

BBM : This makes no sense to me. If she had symptoms before the others , than that would indicate to me she had more "toxins" than the others. IMO

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Mr Mandy would be the defence lawyer I'd want if I was accused of something I didn't do.

He is doing an excellent job on EPs behalf.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Mr Mandy would be the defence lawyer I'd want if I was accused of something I didn't do.

He is doing an excellent job on EPs behalf.

Are you saying that you don't think Erin is guilty?

 

[Jake18]

Mr Mandy would be the defence lawyer I'd want if I was accused of something I didn't do.

He is doing an excellent job on EPs behalf.

do you think? I think the opposite. Lots of noise, no substance.

 

[Lisa4]

I was actually thinking almost the same.

I'd have him if was accused of something I did do.

 

[MrJ]

Mr Mandy would be the defence lawyer I'd want if I was accused of something I didn't do.

He is doing an excellent job on EPs behalf.

respectfully, how do we know whether or not you or she would be innocent or guilty? all that actually matters is the jury's decision

 

[Lisa4]

all that actually matters is the jury's decision

For me, that's why I'd have him! If someone on the jury was already inclined to have doubts about the prosecution's case, I think he is doing his job well in furthering those doubts. In my opinion!

 

[drsleuth]

5.05pm

A question of mushroom varieties​

By​

Defence barrister Colin Mandy, SC, has now moved on to the kinds of mushrooms contained in the meal.

“Erin Patterson says to you that in the duxelles … there were three different kinds of mushrooms. Some from the Asian grocer, some foraged, some button,” he said.

He said that in Patterson’s evidence, the majority of those mushrooms, by far, were button mushrooms.

Mandy reminded the jury of evidence from Dr Camille Truong about how she had gone through the leftovers looking for death cap mushrooms using tweezers. Mandy then said that when the samples reached David Lovelock, a virologist at Agriculture Victoria, they were not completely torn apart and decimated.

He conceded that death cap mushrooms were present in the sample, but that “the only sensible explanation” was that Truong “did not examine every single tiny piece of those samples”.

Mandy said Lovelock’s evidence – that there was an indication of a mushroom type that was not button or death caps – supported Patterson’s statement that there were three types of mushrooms in the meal.

This concludes proceedings for today. Mandy is expected to continue his closing address on Thursday.

Erin Patterson murder trial day 34 as it happened: Defence barrister Colin Mandy tells jury accused mushroom cook wanted to be close to in-laws; may have reacted differently to consuming to poison

Patterson’s barrister will continue his closing address in Morwell’s courtroom four on Thursday, after the judge warned jurors to expect a long direction from the bench next week.

www.theage.com.au

 

[MrJ]

For me, that's why I'd have him! If someone on the jury was already inclined to have doubts about the prosecution's case, I think he is doing his job in furthering those doubts. In my opinion!

This is a very good point actually. I disagree with his arguments but I could see how someone already doubting could be swayed by his closing address

 

[Deleted member 194006]

The thing that puzzles me is, if you plan to kill Simon and his family.

Why would you proceed if Simon wasn't coming? Why not postpone it so he will be there?

I wonder whether Erin was still hopeful that Simon would drop by later when he dropped the kids off from the cinema, especially if he saw that his parents were still there. In his testimony, Simon mentioned that his parent’s car was still parked at Erin’s when he dropped the kids off.