Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #15 *Arrest*

[MrJ]

I wonder if there will potentially be a hung jury.

 

[Yh5r]

I wonder if there will potentially be a hung jury.

I really doubt it. I don't see how anyone that has been presented with all the facts could find her not guilty IMO.

If you believe there might be jurors finding her not guilty, please explain what you think they would base this on.

 

[MrJ]

What I basically mean is that I'm wondering if there are some jurors who will be swayed by Colin Mandy's closing statements. However, if it is accurate from reports that the jury members looked 'bored' or 'exasperated', perhaps not. But I guess we'll never know. Appeals to emotion and 'why would Erin deprive her children of their grandparents' could work on one or two. I hope not and that they look at the full picture though.

 

[Spectrix]

I went searching to see of the judge had started giving directions, and almost spat my coffee out when I read this title:

Erin Patterson mushroom murder trial:​

Accused was 'unscathed' by cross-examination, jury told​

I tend to think of it more along the lines of being one of the most damning cross examinations in criminal history.

Erin Patterson was 'unscathed' by cross-examination, jury told — as it happened

Defence barrister Colin Mandy SC is continuing to deliver his closing address to the jury in Ms Patterson's triple-murder trial. Follow the trial as it happened

www.abc.net.au

 

[Warshawski]

No disrespect but why are the plates still discussed? Heather noticed, she mentioned it to Ian who remembered. That’s it.

Innocent: she gave her guests matching plates, a standard set of 4 in AU. She took a presentable plate from her everyday (mismatched?) plates for herself.
Guilty: she distinguished her ‘safe’ plate by using a different colour. Too obvious imho.

Remember, she fed kids, probably their friends, didn’t entertain.

I’m not to caught up on the use of different plates, as we’ve heard over this trial EP apparently wasn’t into cooking ‘gourmet meals’ & didn’t entertain much. She did have 4 matching plates, so possibly didn’t see the need for a larger matching set.

However, imo, the plates are still being discussed because 4 people ate their lunch from one of the 4 ‘matching plates’. ….( I would give my guests the ‘matching’ plates) Of those people, 3 are now Dead, and the other person almost Died - all from DC poisoning.

The only other person present for that lunch ate off a different plate and (despite her saying she had some vomiting & diarrhoea ) there was scant evidence of a real illness, and her medical tests showed no sign of DC poisoning.

On that basis I think it natural to question whether the one ‘different plate’ contained some ‘difference’ in the food it contained (V what the other 4 plates contained)

It’s very easy to have 4 plates on the side of the bench nearest your guests and say ‘take one’, while you finish serving your’s on the ‘unmatched plate ‘ on the other side of the bench. IMO

Just my opinion.

 

[Warshawski]

Not from a police search. They tear the house apart. Remove bath panels, ceiling tiles, boiler covers, everything.

In her bra or knickers!

 

[HoneyBunOne]

DBM

 

[Yh5r]

What I basically mean is that I'm wondering if there are some jurors who will be swayed by Colin Mandy's closing statements. However, if it is accurate from reports that the jury members looked 'bored' or 'exasperated', perhaps not. But I guess we'll never know. Appeals to emotion and 'why would Erin deprive her children of their grandparents' could work on one or two. I hope not and that they look at the full picture though.

Based on what was presented in court, Erin does not seem to see other people's perspectives (including her own children) so her foremost train of thought was likely "I am so hurt by this family, they don't acknowledge me anymore, I've had enough" and no consideration for the children in this regard. IMO

 

[Cliff Hardy]

I wonder if there will potentially be a hung jury.

That is a possibility with every case but unlikely in this one....l hope.

We aren't sitting where the 12 are sitting and aren't hearing precisely what they are hearing but....

 

[Susjay]

She knew Sunday morning her guests were already in hospital. She had more than 24 hours to tell authorities it was possible mushroom poisoning. Instead, she went about life as normal. IMO
Crickets

Great point! She hears her in laws are sick in hospital and doesn’t go near it. She had only seen her in laws the day before and they were fine, then she hears they were ill enough to be in hospital. Wasn’t this from Simon on the phone and he said she didn’t ask about their welfare? If she loved them, and if there was the close bond the defence is claiming, wouldn’t she want to ask more questions or find out more? If she didn’t want to ask Simon because their relationship was a bit frosty, why didn’t she call Simon’s sister, or even Gail maybe? I heard Don and Gail were in hospital… Or you could just call the hospital ask about their condition. If you call and say your name is Erin Patterson and your mother and father in law, Don and Gail Patterson are in hospital, you could probably get further info. But she didn’t want to go near this whole issue. She wasn’t concerned about their welfare. And as the prosecution has argued, she was aware of what had made them ill enough to be hospitalised.

 

[Yh5r]

Great point! She hears her in laws are sick in hospital and doesn’t go near it. She had only seen her in laws the day before and they were fine, then she hears they were ill enough to be in hospital. Wasn’t this from Simon on the phone and he said she didn’t ask about their welfare? If she loved them, and if there was the close bond the defence is claiming, wouldn’t she want to ask more questions or find out more? If she didn’t want to ask Simon because their relationship was a bit frosty, why didn’t she call Simon’s sister, or even Gail maybe? I heard Don and Gail were in hospital… Or you could just call the hospital ask about their condition. If you call and say your name is Erin Patterson and your mother and father in law, Don and Gail Patterson are in hospital, you could probably get further info. But she didn’t want to go near this whole issue. She wasn’t concerned about their welfare. And as the prosecution has argued, she was aware of what had made them ill enough to be hospitalised.

Absolutely. This makes zero sense for an innocent person to act in this way. Also her children's beloved grandparents are very ill in hospital and she prefers to take them on a long road trip to flying lessons and sends to them to school as per usual on Monday morning. Makes no sense whatsoever. Paired with all the other evidence, this is damning IMO

 

[Susjay]

People like her seem to thrive in prison, strangely.

I think it's because they never really could cope in the outside world, constantly restless and dissatisfied types. They're so manipulative and intelligent they make friends easily and are well liked, often helping others with reading / writing / legal affairs. They even have a lot of girlfriends and lovers. Baffling. I guess they have an endless supply of vulnerable victims on the inside.

Reference: Myra Hindley, Rose West, Sarah Boone, Ghislaine Maxwell etc.

JMO MOO

She has been confined in her own area within in a maximum prison because it was deemed not safe for her to have contact with the wider prison population. This is apparently because other inmates don’t take kindly to alleged or convicted criminals who have committed heinous crimes and/or hurt those who are considered particularly vulnerable. And I imagine this situation will continue if she is convicted.

https://www.news.com.au/national/vi...n/news-story/67f540d7aecb4326b3c913f52ef73459

 

[BreakingNews]

I'm sorry, I'm missing your point. What possible difference could it make if her grandmother was foreign-born?

Erin grew up speaking English. Her mother was a professor of English. For all we know, her grandmother was fluent in English herself.

Only as a possibility for literal English

 

[MaxDecimus13]

Idk - she seems to have no problem testifying at length and in excruciating detail on many humiliating details about herself. Jmo

This is of course true, but I'd say there is a fundamental difference especially if you view it through the eyes of her being innocent.

Erin poos by the side of the road - a bodily function, that would elicit some sympathy if she was innocent. Also helps her case

Erin eats 3/4 of a cake - bulimia also suggests some sympathy and it potentially massively helps her case

Erin lies about having cancer - just a move that exposes her as an attention-seeker of the worst kind and a liar

 

[BreakingNews]

I really doubt it. I don't see how anyone that has been presented with all the facts could find her not guilty IMO.

If you believe there might be jurors finding her not guilty, please explain what you think they would base this on.

We haven't heard the judge give directions to the jury yet. That will give the jury specific information to work through. I've learnt to never be surprised or judgemental of a jury decision, unless I was in the jury room.

 

[Susjay]

She has been confined in her own area within in a maximum prison because it was deemed not safe for her to have contact with the wider prison population. This is apparently because other inmates don’t take kindly to alleged or convicted criminals who have committed heinous crimes and/or hurt those who are considered particularly vulnerable. And I imagine this situation will continue if she is convicted.

https://www.news.com.au/national/vi...n/news-story/67f540d7aecb4326b3c913f52ef73459

PS it was widely reported in Aus some OS news that accused was moved to Protection Unit within Dame Phyllis Frost Centre in March 2024

https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/crime/highprofile-inmate-erin-patterson-forced-into-protection-unit-in-prison-amid-safety-concerns-for-mum-charged-with-murder/news-story/70ecc943654e11342504fb0b1658be21

 

[MaxDecimus13]

So you think that she accidentally picked Death Caps?

She absolutely could have done yes, it doesn't mean I think she did.

The only thing we can be sure of is that Erin's account is full of lies and has been since day one. She might have been a keen forager, but she might not have and only ever done it once.

She's been in self-preservation mode since the first moment DC were identified, and trying to spin a yarn to either cover her guilt or make her appear less culpable.

 

[MaxDecimus13]

I really doubt it. I don't see how anyone that has been presented with all the facts could find her not guilty IMO.

If you believe there might be jurors finding her not guilty, please explain what you think they would base this on.

If you're convinced of guilt you'll see it everywhere.

The reality is that there are gaping issues in this case that are not easily dismissed. Before I get hounded, I'd say there are gaping issues with both her innocence and her guilt.

People convinced of her guilt skirt over some huge problems, like expecting her not to realise she couldn't kill 4/5 people and pass it off as an accident. The fact there was no gain for Erin, just likely more difficulties.

Then you consider what the prosecution has proven and what the jury doesnt have access to. They don't have the evidence of Simon's illness and they haven't proven that Erin couldn't have got as sick as them or that bulimia wouldn't have worked.

Don't forget, we're talking reasonable doubt, not whether they think she is innocent.

 

[MrJ]

People convinced of her guilt skirt over some huge problems, like expecting her not to realise she couldn't kill 4/5 people and pass it off as an accident. The fact there was no gain for Erin, just likely more difficulties.

I think this is true but I argue that if she planned it, and it was deliberate, she really planned the method itself and not what would happen afterwards. Pretty sloppy if it was premeditated and somehow she forgot to account how to cover her tracks afterwards

 

[Susjay]

I've pointed out a few times that I'm an atheist who has often been in this situation.

I recognised her messages to friends about praying straight away.

That is one area to which I have very little doubt.

I’m an atheist and I think that the subtext, especially from Mandy, is that believers are kind good peeps who are good people… they don’t do bad stuff etc… and so on.
The acccused certainly did disparage the religious beliefs of her family. And Mandy did want to argue very strongly that she was not an atheist. I would assume this is because first, he can make light of her jibes about her family’s religion and claim they are not to be taken seriously, and second, he infers she is a person of faith and therefore that she is a good person. This is the subtext.
I did see one news report that said the accused was carrying a bible into court on a Tuesday. There was a photograph too