Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #15 *Arrest*

[TootsieFootsie]

Stoney faced, hmmm that was Lindy Chamberlains face when she was on trial and wrongfully convicted.

That is exactly the look that would be on my face too.
Robbed of the chance to grieve for her child and wrongfully accused.

And the majority of the judgemental public.....
I can't say any more. It takes me back to that time when I learned I was the odd one out in that case.

It remains to be seen what the verdict will be in this case.

I just want whatever verdict in this case to be the truth.

 

[ch_13]

Maybe because of her mother's academic English, she might have been taught to speak the Queen's English. And that leaves no doubt what the meaning is. <modsnip - off topic> Kids often speak literally. Eg. Can you tell me what happened? The child replies 'yes'. They have answered your question. Juvie kids often get into trouble with the police over this. But they are simply answering the question. I have a son who was s a literal speaker, so I have learnt to be very clear with what I say.

<modsnip - quoted post was snipped> Plus we've actually heard her speak to reporters on more than one occasion. In those encounters, nothing she said suggests she's overly literal.

I really don't understand where you're getting this idea that she can't speak or understand English. If anything, her continued verbal jousting with the prosecutor while under cross-examination suggests that she's quite adept with the language.

 

[JBowie]

If anything, her continued verbal jousting with the prosecutor while under cross-examination suggests that she's quite adept with the language.

She has no problem with the English language. She complained about having to fix articles submitted to her newsletter:

Ms Patterson edited The Burra Flyer newsletter from 2018 to 2020 after taking it over from Gail and Don.

Fatal mushroom chef Erin Patterson lashed out at her local community while putting together the local newsletter, an insider has revealed.

Erin branded contributors to Korumburra newsletter The Burra Flyer 'illiterate motherf**kers' during a rant to an old friend.

Mushroom chef's Facebook messages leak

Mushroom chef Erin Patterson lashed out at her local community while putting together the local newspaper, an insider has revealed.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Warshawski]

BBM
I think she tried #2 and had a "plan" as such, but it went awry. I can't recall what and where I read, but I believe just recently there has been a breakthrough in something like detecting death cap ingestion that Erin may not have been aware of. I think she was banking on the couples just feeling sick and camping by their respective bathrooms for a while. This phase, phase 1, occurs 6-24 hours after ingestion, so by Sat evening or Sun lunch time. A convenient time when it's hard to get in to see a GP if you were so inclined. You enter phase 2 after 12-36 hours (so potentially Sun morning through to Mon evening, depending on when phase 1 hits and how long it lasts), where you think you're getting better. No longer a need to see the doctor, and you'll think you just had some dodgy discount beef or something. Then phase 3 hits, sometime between 3-6 days after ingestion, and conveniently after your body has secreted any signs of death caps (Toxins are generally considered to stay in the urine for a couple of days and in blood for up to 36 hours). This is basically where your body dies from the inside out. If you rode out phases 1 and 2 at home, and phase 3 hit you hard and fast, you'd never even see a medical professional while alive. Even if you did seek medical attention then, you'd likely be in a bad way and the toxins are no longer found in blood or urine, so it would be a race against time to diagnose the issue and treat it.

Now I don't know any of the victims, but I wonder if Erin banked on them being sweet and nice and not wanting to bother anyone with their illness, especially if they thought it may be contagious. What I think Erin didn't bank on, was just how toxic her powder was. I think she was surprised by how hard and fast they went down. Maybe the maths wasn't mathing, or she just didn't factor in their potency in powdered form. A pretty big gamble, really, but one I think she made. I believe she thought that she would be considered the lucky one to survive, only to feel a bit sick and have a few extras poos, and it was all a tragic mistake. It could be deemed accidental food poisoning, and she could claim the discount beef from Woolies was the culprit instead of an imaginary Asian grocer.

MOO

Death Cap Mushroom Poisoning

Find out what you need to know about death cap mushroom poisoning, and discover how to identify it and what to do if you’ve been poisoned.

www.webmd.com

I share your opinion HoneyBun. I did post similar upstream, just minus your excellent ‘technical’ information (I’m too dense for that knowledge )

IMO Erin’s ‘attitude’ has been no help to her proclamation that the inclusion of DC mushrooms was ‘accidental’ - and in fact has done it considerable harm.

Even if I ‘excuse or ignore’ :
her toxic remarks about her husband & his parents
her search for availability of death caps
her trips to the very area death caps were grown
her concocted yet quite serious reason for inviting her guests to lunch ( naturally people are concerned when told someone wants to discuss a medical issue )
her exclusion of the children from the house at that time
her use of a different plate for her meal
her lie to her guests that she had cancer
her lack of concern on hearing her guests were so unwell that they are hospitalised
her extreme reluctance for medical checks for herself and her children who she said had eaten the left overs from the lunch
etc etc etc

The thing that really sticks in my craw is that she told the investigating Police officer a bald face lie (twice) when he asked had she foraged mushrooms ‘ No’ she said, then followed that up with ‘Never’.
And then went on to insist to numerous medical staff that she had not foraged for mushrooms or used any foraged mushrooms - and all the while those medical staff were desperately striving to identify the cause of the illness destroying the organs of her dearly loved quests.
Nothing ‘accidental’ about anything she does IMO, just absolutely inhumane .

Murder allegations, lies and the hazards of mushrooming - South Gippsland Sentinel Times

ERIN Patterson lied to the police about foraging for wild mushrooms. Defence counsel for the woman accused of cooking a meal of beef Wellington, containing death cap mushrooms on Saturday, July 29, 2023, Colin Mandy SC, acknowledged that in his...

www.sgst.com.au

 

[Lisa4]

Stoney faced, hmmm that was Lindy Chamberlains face when she was on trial and wrongfully convicted.

That is exactly the look that would be on my face too.
Robbed of the chance to grieve for her child and wrongfully accused.

And the majority of the judgemental public.....
I can't say any more. It takes me back to that time when I learned I was the odd one out in that case.

It remains to be seen what the verdict will be in this case.

I just want whatever verdict in this case to be the truth.

100% agree with you in the unfairness of the Lindy C-C case, @TootsieFootsie.

I would really like you to think about this key difference

In the Lindy Chamberlain case, at the time of the incident itself, the people physically present at the scene supported her, and her behaviour was seen as entirely consistent with a mother reacting to a genuine emergency.

In the first inquest, held in 1980–81, Magistrate Dennis Barritt supported Lindy’s version of events. He described her as “a caring and responsible mother”. He accepted the theory that a dingo had taken Azaria, based on forensic and eyewitness evidence at the time.

“The Chamberlains were not acting suspiciously.” – Inquest findings, 1981

It was only over time that public opinion began to turn against her due to her calm demeanor during media interviews, which the media then portrayed as suspicious. In fact, her personal faith and values meant that she deeply preferred to keep her emotional self-control in public.

To summarise the above, Lindy's behaviour did not raise suspicion to all those witnessing it first-hand. The same unfortunately cannot be said for EP.


One other key difference between the two women I would like to include here.

Lindy Chamberlain-Creighton’s behaviour since the tragedy and her wrongful conviction has been nothing but gracious and dignified, especially considering the extraordinary injustice and public vilification she endured. She has never lashed out publicly at those involved in her wrongful conviction.

Her ability to forgive, maintain poise, and advocate for truth is certainly an example for us all.

I will leave the comparisons there. Also I won't be making any further references to Lindy as I personally feel it is unfair bringing her name into this case at all.


And now will finish with this beautiful quote from a very special lady:

“You can't spend your life being bitter. You have to forgive.” — Lindy Chamberlain-Creighton

.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Please where is a link that Baden Clay is a psychopath. I don't recall that diagnosis, except in rumour.

I don't know if he's ever been diagnosed as a psychopath, but I'd put money on it...

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Mild grievances to you. To narcissist any slight is major and unforgiveable.

We've only been told about some of her grievances IMO. Erin and her defence aren't going to give us an itemised list, as it would only strengthen the opinion that she's guilty.

 

[BreakingNews]

I don't know if he's ever been diagnosed as a psychopath, but I'd put money on it...

Then that is simply rumour, not fact. Whatever he is a horrible person. I know more about him than I can say.

 

[Jake18]

100% agree @TootsieFootsie.

I would really like you to think about this key difference -

In the Lindy Chamberlain case, at the time of the incident itself, the people physically present at the scene supported her, and her behaviour was seen as entirely consistent with a mother reacting to a genuine emergency.

In the first inquest, held in 1980–81, Magistrate Dennis Barritt supported Lindy’s version of events. He described her as “a caring and responsible mother”. He accepted the theory that a dingo had taken Azaria, based on forensic and eyewitness evidence at the time.

“The Chamberlains were not acting suspiciously.” – Inquest findings, 1981

It was only over time that public opinion began to turn against her due to her calm demeanor during media interviews, which the media then portrayed as suspicious. In fact, her personal faith and values meant that she deeply preferred to keep her emotional self-control in public.

To summarise the above, Lindy's behaviour did not raise suspicion to all those witnessing it first-hand. The same unfortunately cannot be said for EP.


One other key difference between the two women I would like to include here.

Lindy Chamberlain-Creighton’s behaviour since the tragedy and her wrongful conviction has been nothing but gracious and dignified, especially considering the extraordinary injustice and public vilification she endured. She has never lashed out publicly at those involved in her wrongful conviction.

Her ability to forgive, maintain poise, and advocate for truth is certainly an example for us all.

I will leave the comparisons there.


And will finish with this beautiful quote from a very special lady:

“You can't spend your life being bitter. You have to forgive.” — Lindy Chamberlain-Creighton


.

Lindy Chamberlain didn’t lie, either.

Erin has lied so much - about owning a dehydrator, about foraging, about the gastric band surgery, about having cancer.

And they’re only the lies she’s been caught out with.

(I think she also lied about vomiting after the meal, the roadside poo, what she did in the roadside service station, what she did when she went home frim the hospital, about feeding the kids’ leftovers with the mushrooms “scraped off” and about being unwell after the meal).

 

[Deleted member 363451]

However the onus is on the prosecution to prove her guilt. It's not up to the defence to prove her innocence.

Stoney faced, hmmm that was Lindy Chamberlains face when she was on trial and wrongfully convicted.

That is exactly the look that would be on my face too.
Robbed of the chance to grieve for her child and wrongfully accused.

And the majority of the judgemental public.....
I can't say any more. It takes me back to that time when I learned I was the odd one out in that case.

It remains to be seen what the verdict will be in this case.

I just want whatever verdict in this case to be the truth.

They are two totally different cases. I don't know why you keep referring to the Lindy Chamberlain case to be honest.

 

[Kemug]

I'm sure that at least one of the jurors would have dealt with a narcissist before, but it's the ones who haven't which is the worry...

Let me tell you a little story about my own Narcissist "friend." The houseguest from Hell who actually refused to leave, until we threatened that we would have to contact our solicitor. So one day she was going out somewhere, and I dropped her off at the train station. I idly asked her where she might be going, to which she charmingly replied "None of your business." I had only asked because if I hadn't I would have been accused of not caring, etc, etc! Time passed, and in about the middle of the afternoon the sky darkened, the heavens opened and there was thunder, lightning, wind and pouring rain. My said "friend" didn't call or text, so I assumed that she would eventually arrive home via bus from the train station, as had been arranged (although she had refused to give me even a vague idea of when she might return, because that was none of my business either.) Well, was I wrong! Silly selfish me. Not very long after the storm had finished, she marched into the house (we had given her a key), completely drenched and dripping wet, and yelling at me "WHERE WERE YOU??!!!!" She had just missed a bus, which had made her so furious that even though the rain had already started, she had decided to walk (march) home to our house. Which was 7km! But all my fault. She couldn't bear to just wait for the next bus.

But the point is that if you have never known a Narcissist, you would probably have great difficulty believing what they are like, and how they can behave. It certainly seems to me that Erin is likely one.

3rd PS After she finally left, we changed all the locks. She had returned the key we lent her, but how could we be sure that she hadn't made a copy? We didn't believe that she was actually dishonest. But we didn't put it past her that she might find that she had left a hairpin behind, or similar, and decide that warranted her coming into our home "to look for it". We felt so much safer, happier, and more relaxed with all new locks!

 

[Deleted member 363451]

I share your opinion HoneyBun. I did post similar upstream, just minus your excellent ‘technical’ information (I’m too dense for that knowledge )

IMO Erin’s ‘attitude’ has been no help to her proclamation that the inclusion of DC mushrooms was ‘accidental’ - and in fact has done it considerable harm.

Even if I ‘excuse or ignore’ :
her toxic remarks about her husband & his parents
her search for availability of death caps
her trips to the very area death caps were grown
her concocted yet quite serious reason for inviting her guests to lunch ( naturally people are concerned when told someone wants to discuss a medical issue )
her exclusion of the children from the house at that time
her use of a different plate for her meal
her lie to her guests that she had cancer
her lack of concern on hearing her guests were so unwell that they are hospitalised
her extreme reluctance for medical checks for herself and her children who she said had eaten the left overs from the lunch
etc etc etc

The thing that really sticks in my craw is that she told the investigating Police officer a bald face lie (twice) when he asked had she foraged mushrooms ‘ No’ she said, then followed that up with ‘Never’.
And then went on to insist to numerous medical staff that she had not foraged for mushrooms or used any foraged mushrooms - and all the while those medical staff were desperately striving to identify the cause of the illness destroying the organs of her dearly loved quests.
Nothing ‘accidental’ about anything she does IMO, just absolutely inhumane .

Murder allegations, lies and the hazards of mushrooming - South Gippsland Sentinel Times

ERIN Patterson lied to the police about foraging for wild mushrooms. Defence counsel for the woman accused of cooking a meal of beef Wellington, containing death cap mushrooms on Saturday, July 29, 2023, Colin Mandy SC, acknowledged that in his...

www.sgst.com.au

Her lawyer must have later advised her that since she was seen dumping the food dehydrator and her phone had pinged at both Loch and Outrim, it was better to say that she had foraged for mushrooms, so that it didn't look as though she specifically went in search of the Death Caps.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Then that is simply rumour, not fact. Whatever he is a horrible person. I know more about him than I can say.

We'll agree to disagree.

 

[MrJ]

Stoney faced, hmmm that was Lindy Chamberlains face when she was on trial and wrongfully convicted.

That is exactly the look that would be on my face too.
Robbed of the chance to grieve for her child and wrongfully accused.

And the majority of the judgemental public.....
I can't say any more. It takes me back to that time when I learned I was the odd one out in that case.

It remains to be seen what the verdict will be in this case.

I just want whatever verdict in this case to be the truth.

There are vast differences between Lindy and EP

 

[Lisa4]

They are two totally different cases. I don't know why you keep referring to the Lindy Chamberlain case to be honest.

I agree.

 

[lazymaiden07]

100% agree with you in the unfairness of the Lindy C-C case, @TootsieFootsie.

I would really like you to think about this key difference

In the Lindy Chamberlain case, at the time of the incident itself, the people physically present at the scene supported her, and her behaviour was seen as entirely consistent with a mother reacting to a genuine emergency.

In the first inquest, held in 1980–81, Magistrate Dennis Barritt supported Lindy’s version of events. He described her as “a caring and responsible mother”. He accepted the theory that a dingo had taken Azaria, based on forensic and eyewitness evidence at the time.

“The Chamberlains were not acting suspiciously.” – Inquest findings, 1981

It was only over time that public opinion began to turn against her due to her calm demeanor during media interviews, which the media then portrayed as suspicious. In fact, her personal faith and values meant that she deeply preferred to keep her emotional self-control in public.

To summarise the above, Lindy's behaviour did not raise suspicion to all those witnessing it first-hand. The same unfortunately cannot be said for EP.


One other key difference between the two women I would like to include here.

Lindy Chamberlain-Creighton’s behaviour since the tragedy and her wrongful conviction has been nothing but gracious and dignified, especially considering the extraordinary injustice and public vilification she endured. She has never lashed out publicly at those involved in her wrongful conviction.

Her ability to forgive, maintain poise, and advocate for truth is certainly an example for us all.

I will leave the comparisons there. Also I won't be making any further references to Lindy as I personally feel it is unfair bringing her name into this case at all.


And now will finish with this beautiful quote from a very special lady:

“You can't spend your life being bitter. You have to forgive.” — Lindy Chamberlain-Creighton

.

So well written, @Lisa4

 

[Ellery84]

There are vast differences between Lindy and EP

I recently watched Ahn’s Brush with Fame Season 4 Episode 2, Anh's Brush With Fame: S4 Lindy Chamberlain

in which Ahn Doh interviews Lindy Chamberlain whilst painting her portrait, and her viewpoint seemed to be that if she had not been found guilty and jailed, then there wouldn’t be certain laws in place that there are now in terms of protecting the innocence of innocent people.

I don’t know if she’s referring to improvements in forensics or a law but she seemed to think or believe that God had allowed her to be imprisoned for a purpose, to make the law better and more robust.

Her faith kept her going whilst in jail and she says she prayed every day.

She is really a tremendous woman and is still living her faith - quite an inspiration really.

IMO

 

[Monstradamus]

I recently watched Ahn’s Brush with Fame Season 4 Episode 2, Anh's Brush With Fame: S4 Lindy Chamberlain

in which Ahn Doh interviews Lindy Chamberlain whilst painting her portrait, and her viewpoint seemed to be that if she had not been found guilty and jailed, then there wouldn’t be certain laws in place that there are now in terms of protecting the innocence of innocent people.

I don’t know if she’s referring to improvements in forensics or a law but she seemed to think or believe that God had allowed her to be imprisoned for a purpose, to make the law better and more robust.

Her faith kept her going whilst in jail and she says she prayed every day.

She is really a tremendous woman and is still living her faith - quite an inspiration really.

IMO

Definitely an inspiration. At complete opposites to the lying liar, imo. Their only similarity is that they are both women. That's where it ends.

 

[Susjay]

I think this is true but I argue that if she planned it, and it was deliberate, she really planned the method itself and not what would happen afterwards. Pretty sloppy if it was premeditated and somehow she forgot to account how to cover her tracks afterwards

Think there were a few things the accused didn’t expect so soon after the lunch.

Her guests got to hospitals really quickly. Simon may have made the links? He may have helped medicos get on to the idea of poisoning much earlier than usual?

The public might be viewing this a subsequent attempt at poisoning by the accused since it is known charges relating to Simon were dropped. However, at time of the lunch, far as the accused knew, she was not under any suspicion for Simon’s illness. He may have never suggested he was suspicious? Not sure if and/or when he was?

It was suggested new technology may have been used to detect death caps *1 and the accused may have been tripped up by this. She may not have been aware of the new tech advances. This also meant samples were taken from victims well within the short window recommended for detecting the toxin.

On 28 Aug 2023 *1
“A leading toxicologist [Dr Michael Robertson] believes medical professionals may have used new technology to detect the poisonous death cap mushrooms in the Leongatha victims' systems.” He also said that because death caps were suspected early on in the illnesses of the victims there were more opportunities to collect samples and detect them from those samples.

On 30 Aug 2023 *2
“Forensic toxicologist Dr Michael Robertson said the toxin can be hard to identify because it is out of the bloodstream in about 24 hours.”

*1

https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/leongatha-mushroom-poisoning-tragedy-why-toxicology-report-could-be-crucial-to-homicide-squad-investigation/news-story/5ba11f9f133c7dc7ef8ba4574fa177df

*2

Final hours of death cap mushroom poisoning victims revealed

‘It’s pretty horrendous.’

7news.com.au

 

[Megnut]

The difference in plate color is a subtle cue- it's obvious to her, like marking a pastry would have been. not obvious to 4 unsuspecting people until it's hindsight and put together. We all see it glaringly, Heather figured it out as she was dying. Simon knew better than to have lunch at her house- none of the rest did.

And poor SP knew he was in her crosshairs. He nene could have imagined the other foir were, especially the last two. Nor how deep her revenge.

And the sad irony, he probably feels more responsible (but shouldn't) for the deaths then she ever could/would. Because he had something she does not -- the capacity to care about others.

She found a way to punish him for not coming to her lunch.

JMO