Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #15 *Arrest*

[Lisa4]

Maybe her mashed potatoes always turned out lumpy, like mine.

Mine used to too. So disappointing! I found out at last that all I was doing wrong was not boiling them long enough first. Voila no more lumps. But I kid you not, by then the kids said they preferred lumps and rejected smooth mashed potato!

1. Cut potato into equal pieces;
2. Boil in SALTED water – this will season the potatoes all the way through – until potato is very, very soft. It should virtually crumble when you jab it with a fork

Creamy Buttery Mashed Potato

This is the creamy mashed potato you've seen smothered in sauces and gravies in hundreds of recipes on my website. Easy recipe - make it once, use forever.

www.recipetineats.com

ETA. I also mash well before adding liquid, but I think thats just preference.

I hope this helps!

 

[MrJ]

Sorry all somebody else should do the abc. Busy at the moment

 

[Lisa4]

I will do for 30min

 

[Lisa4]

The jury returns from lunch

Before the lunch break Justice Beale brought to the jury's attention some inconsistencies in evidence given by various witnesses during the trial.

So far he's highlighted five prosecution witnesses. They are:

Simon Patterson
Ian Wilkinson
Chris Webster
Tanya Patterson
Sally Ann Atkinson
As we return from the break Justice Beale informs the jury some legal discussion needs to take place before he gets to certain elements of his direction which he was hoping to today, so today's proceedings might finish a bit earlier.

Live: Judge in Erin Patterson murder trial begins instructions to jury

Justice Christopher Beale begins his final instructions to the jury before they start their deliberations. The instructions are expected to go for at least two days. Follow his address as it happens.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Lisa4]

Inconsistencies the prosecution has identified
Mikaela Ortolan profile image
By Mikaela Ortolan

He then turns to inconsistencies that the prosecution wants him to highlight.

He outlines there are eight topics. These are:

1.Whether Erin Patterson had tendency to pick and eat wild mushrooms
2.Whether her children were invited to or free to attend the lunch in question
3.The source of the mushrooms in the beef Wellington
4.How much of the beef Wellington Erin Patterson ate
5.How much of the beef Wellington Gail Patterson ate
6.When Ms Patterson started experiencing diarrhea
7.When she suspected the lunch was the cause of Don and Gail Patterson's illness
8.And whether she knew Don and Gail were in a coma on the Tuesday following the lunch
He starts reading parts of the transcript to the jury.

Judge in Erin Patterson murder trial begins instructions to jury — as it happened

Justice Christopher Beale begins his final instructions to the jury before they start their deliberations. The instructions are expected to go for at least two days. Follow his address as it happened.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Kemug]

Yes, they can definitely make tv shows about things without family permission. It's been done before. But there are lots of things that need to be taken into consideration. Telling people's stories on film - Arts Law Centre of Australia

Thank you Eloise, that is very interesting. So, as I understand it, (but of course I may be wrong, it has been known to happen!) in the event that Erin is found guilty, one point is that she herself can give permission for a TV production/movie to be made. And her permission would override any protests from the family? How nice for a control freak! MOO MOO MOO

 

[Lisa4]

Whether or not the children were invited to the lunch
Mikaela Ortolan profile image
By Mikaela Ortolan

Justice Beale takes us to an example of these inconsistencies relating to whether or not the children were invited to the lunch.

He reminds the jury of evidence Erin Patterson gave where she told her daughter Don and Gail Patterson and Ian and Heather Wilkinson were coming for lunch and that she could also attend the lunch or go to the movies with her brother if she preferred.

He then mentions evidence Simon Patterson gave.

In that evidence he said Ms Patterson was keen for the children not to be present at the lunch because she wanted to discuss a serious matter.

Evidence given by both of Ms Patterson's children is also highlighted including where Ms Patterson's daughter said she wanted to talk about adult stuff at the lunch.

Justice Beale is going through bits and pieces of the evidence that show these types of inconsistencies.

Live: Judge in Erin Patterson murder trial begins instructions to jury

Justice Christopher Beale begins his final instructions to the jury before they start their deliberations. The instructions are expected to go for at least two days. Follow his address as it happens.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Lisa4]

The source of the mushrooms
Mikaela Ortolan profile image
By Mikaela Ortolan

We're taken to evidence about where Ms Patterson sourced the mushrooms that were in the beef Wellingtons.

Justice Beale is revisiting evidence given by different medical staff and others. In their evidence, some said she purchased the mushrooms from a supermarket in Leongatha and an Asian grocer in Oakleigh.

One witness said Ms Patterson later told them she couldn't remember the name of the Asian grocer and that it could have been in Glen Waverley.

Another then said Ms Patterson said the mushrooms could have been from an Asian grocer in Oakleigh, Glen Waverley or Mount Waverley.

A Woolworths in Leongatha is also mentioned as a location where she purchased the mushrooms.

Other witnesses said Ms Patterson told them she had not been "mushrooming" and no foraged mushrooms were in the meal.

Live: Judge in Erin Patterson murder trial begins instructions to jury

Justice Christopher Beale begins his final instructions to the jury before they start their deliberations. The instructions are expected to go for at least two days. Follow his address as it happens.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Lisa4]

Portions eaten and when symptoms started
Mikaela Ortolan profile image
By Mikaela Ortolan

We quickly look at the different accounts of how much Erin Patterson and Gail Patterson ate of their meals.

We then turn to when Erin started experiencing diarrhoea, which she said occurred on the Saturday night close to midnight.

Simon Patterson however, told the court he remembers her saying it started during the afternoon on the Saturday, around 4pm or so.

Judge in Erin Patterson murder trial begins instructions to jury — as it happened

Justice Christopher Beale begins his final instructions to the jury before they start their deliberations. The instructions are expected to go for at least two days. Follow his address as it happened.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Kemug]

Mine used to too. So disappointing! I found out at last that all I was doing wrong was not boiling them long enough first. Voila no more lumps. But I kid you not, by then the kids said they preferred lumps and rejected smooth mashed potato!

1. Cut potato into equal pieces;
2. Boil in SALTED water – this will season the potatoes all the way through – until potato is very, very soft. It should virtually crumble when you jab it with a fork

Creamy Buttery Mashed Potato

This is the creamy mashed potato you've seen smothered in sauces and gravies in hundreds of recipes on my website. Easy recipe - make it once, use forever.

www.recipetineats.com

ETA. I also mash well before adding liquid, but I think thats just preference.

I hope this helps!

Cut up the potatoes smaller than you normally would, then they cook faster and mash better (drain them first of course). Add some butter/margarine and milk before mashing.

 

[Monstradamus]

Inconsistencies the prosecution has identified
Mikaela Ortolan profile image
By Mikaela Ortolan

He then turns to inconsistencies that the prosecution wants him to highlight.

He outlines there are eight topics. These are:

1.Whether Erin Patterson had tendency to pick and eat wild mushrooms
2.Whether her children were invited to or free to attend the lunch in question
3.The source of the mushrooms in the beef Wellington
4.How much of the beef Wellington Erin Patterson ate
5.How much of the beef Wellington Gail Patterson ate
6.When Ms Patterson started experiencing diarrhea
7.When she suspected the lunch was the cause of Don and Gail Patterson's illness
8.And whether she knew Don and Gail were in a coma on the Tuesday following the lunch
He starts reading parts of the transcript to the jury.

Judge in Erin Patterson murder trial begins instructions to jury — as it happened

Justice Christopher Beale begins his final instructions to the jury before they start their deliberations. The instructions are expected to go for at least two days. Follow his address as it happened.

www.abc.net.au

So many inconsistencies. I know who I believe.
MOO

 

[Lisa4]

How the jury should consider inconsistencies in witness statements
Mikaela Ortolan profile image
By Mikaela Ortolan

Justice Beale is now explaining his direction in relation to these inconsistencies.

He tells the jury they can either accept the witnesses prior statement that was inconsistent with their testimony and use the context of that statement.

For example they could use Erin Patterson's statement that she ate half of the beef Wellington as evidence that she ate half of it.

Or if they find the statement of the witness they are considering to be inconsistent with their account in court, they can use the statement to assess the witnesses reliability.

"If you find it is inconsistent you will have two different accounts from the same witness," Justice Beale says.

He then says it is up to the jury members to determine which account, if any, is accurate.

Judge in Erin Patterson murder trial begins instructions to jury — as it happened

Justice Christopher Beale begins his final instructions to the jury before they start their deliberations. The instructions are expected to go for at least two days. Follow his address as it happened.

www.abc.net.au

A quick break
Mikaela Ortolan profile image
By Mikaela Ortolan

After that, we take a quick 10 minute break.

There's not too much longer left for today as Justice Beale earlier told the jury there's some discussion that will need to take place without them being present.

We'll be back soon.

Live: Judge in Erin Patterson murder trial begins instructions to jury

Justice Christopher Beale begins his final instructions to the jury before they start their deliberations. The instructions are expected to go for at least two days. Follow his address as it happens.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Lisa4]

Expert evidence is the next point to address
Mikaela Ortolan profile image
By Mikaela Ortolan

The jury is back and we're taken to evidence given by digital forensic experts Matthew Sorell and Shamen Fox-Henry.

"Ordinarily witnesses are not allowed to give their opinions in the case," Justice Beale says.

"However the law says people with specialised knowledge or training are allowed to give their opinions … if that will assist you the jury in making your opinions."

Live: Judge in Erin Patterson murder trial begins instructions to jury

Justice Christopher Beale begins his final instructions to the jury before they start their deliberations. The instructions are expected to go for at least two days. Follow his address as it happens.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Lisa4]

Gotta go now, can someone else please do abc updates

 

[Eloise]

Thank you Eloise, that is very interesting. So, as I understand it, (but of course I may be wrong, it has been known to happen!) in the event that Erin is found guilty, one point is that she herself can give permission for a TV production/movie to be made. And her permission would override any protests from the family? How nice for a control freak! MOO MOO MOO

No idea how that plays into proceeds-of-crime laws (assuming she's found guilty). Celebrity criminals and the proceeds of crime – why crime doesn’t pay

I can't imagine her giving permission and not wanting a cut. It'd probably be one where the central 'character' isn't involved in production (eg Apple Cider Vinegar)

e: as for her wanting to tell her story if she's found not-guilty, she's allowed to do that so long as she doesn't misrepresent or defame the family or reveal any confidential information. She'd be legally within her rights to do so

 

[MrJ]

1m ago
That wraps up today's proceedings
Mikaela Ortolan profile image
By Mikaela Ortolan

On that very technical note, Justice Beale wraps up for the day and says we'll continue tomorrow with the expert evidence of Mr Fox Henry.

He provides a quick update to the jury in terms of the remaining timeline of this case.

"You don't need to bring your toothbrush tomorrow," he tells the jury before they are sent out of the room.

Judge in Erin Patterson murder trial begins instructions to jury — as it happened

Justice Christopher Beale begins his final instructions to the jury before they start their deliberations. The instructions are expected to go for at least two days. Follow his address as it happened.

www.abc.net.au

 

[MrJ]

Key Event
7m ago
Don't consider expert evidence in isolation, jury told
Mikaela Ortolan profile image
By Mikaela Ortolan

During his evidence, Dr Sorell had identified that there were eight possible visits to the Loch postcode area based on phone data collected from one of Erin Patterson's handsets.

These possible visits took place across March 2022, April 2022, August 2022 and February 2023.

There were some gaps in the records which Dr Sorrell had noted while giving evidence.

"When considering the issues that his evidence bears upon you, don't consider his evidence in isolation," Justice Beale tells the jury.

He says the jury may use Dr Sorell's evidence as an indication Ms Patterson "possibly" visited Loch on certain dates but may not use it as evidence that the accused "actually" visited Loch at those times.


Key Event
10m ago
Some limitations to expert evidence
Mikaela Ortolan profile image
By Mikaela Ortolan

Justice Beale stated that Dr Sorell agreed during the trial that there were "significant limitations" in his evidence in terms of time and place.

"The best that can be said is that a phone is in a particular area or it is not in a particular area," Dr Sorell said while giving evidence.


Key Event
13m ago
We look at expert evidence given on phone data
Mikaela Ortolan profile image
By Mikaela Ortolan

Justice Beale gives us a rundown of Dr Sorell's qualifications and the work he does looking at mobile phone network records and mobile phone data.

He highlights some key terminology Dr Sorell used in his evidence such as IMEI number, which is the serial number for a mobile handset.

In Dr Sorell's evidence, he explained how when a handset is on the move it will switch to different base stations or phone towers. He said weather may impact base stations.

He said the handset can initiate a data connection for its own purpose.

We're looking at this because of a possible trip Erin Patterson took to Outtrim where it's alleged she foraged for mushrooms. It was her mobile phone records that suggested she might have been in this area during a specific time.

It is quite technical information but all of this evidence has already been presented to the jury in the trial.

Judge in Erin Patterson murder trial begins instructions to jury — as it happened

Justice Christopher Beale begins his final instructions to the jury before they start their deliberations. The instructions are expected to go for at least two days. Follow his address as it happened.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Scuffy35]

I can see that it probably won't be till next Monday before the jury starts their deliberations.

 

[Monstradamus]

I can see that it probably won't be till next Monday before the jury starts their deliberations.

I was hoping for Thurs afternoon into Friday.

 

[SouthAussie]

Justice Beale says the defence outlined how Ms Patterson loved mushrooms and said the fact her children can't remember her picking mushrooms was just that "they were young kids" and it didn't mean that she didn't forage.

Justice Beale says the prosecution alleges she is a self-confessed liar, that her children had no knowledge of their mum's foraging for edible mushrooms, there were no messages to friends or family nor books on foraging, and asserted that her claims of being interested in foraging was a recent invention.

He says the jury must weigh all this up in its deliberations.


(RSBM)

As I read the above I wondered who first told the media (way back) that Erin was an experienced forager, that she foraged with her family.

Also, who told the media (way back) that Simon asked Erin if she used the dehydrator to poison everyone.

Both of these things seem to have been disputed during the trial.

imo