VERDICT WATCH Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #16 *Arrest*

[LinasK]

There must have been another purchase of meat in order to have some for the children's dinner.

Apparently she bought 2 5-packs of steaks.

 

[LinasK]

Absolutely.

When I consider the reasons I would find most convincing that she did it, I don't think the jury will be necessarily looking at them the same way.

With a tragedy like this, the person responsible needs to be given a significant benefit of the doubt to be believed that they are innocent. Tragedies and accidents do happen, no matter how bizarre, and I would hope that I would've earned that benefit as somebody who has literally never done anything.

I don't find EPs story in itself that implausible as a scenario. Somebody absolutely could accidentally add in DC mushrooms and then in a panic make terrible choices. Coincidences can and do happen, and on their own are not proof. Obviously, to believe them you'd have to give that person significant benefit of the doubt.

Where that absolutely ended for me personally, was with Simon's mystery illness. That it far too beyond the realms of normal levels of coincidence that her story can be given benefit of the doubt. When you factor in the mountain of lies that have since followed, there really is an element of why would you believe anything this person says. It also makes you look at other coincidences more sceptically like the purchasing of the dehydrator.

Evidence wise, the part I find most convincing is the medical evidence: the lack of significant illness, liver damage and how it has been established on here that throwing up etc would have had very little effect on lessening the symptoms.

These two main points are not as available to the jury. They shouldn't know about Simon, and the defence has left it a very real possibility that she could have avoided significant illness.

Without these two pillars, I think if I was on that jury I'd be finding it harder to get past reasonable doubt. Maybe I still would, but it would be harder that's for sure.

There's also her tossing out the dehydrator, her lying to the medical authorities about using DC's at all and foraging. Lack of concern about the hospitalized relatives or attempting to visit them. Carrying on like a normal weekend driving son to extracurricular activities, while wearing light colored pants.... These aren't the actions of an innocent person.

 

[Way2Invested]

Heard on the radio last night that while the jury can keep deliberating this afternoon and Saturday, the verdict can only be handed down during the usual times the court is in session. So if we haven't heard anything by 1.15pm today, we'll have to wait until next week.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

Simon was unwell three occasions (the last time being in a coma) allegedly due to EP's cooking and she didn't receive any scrutiny at the time. Maybe EP was complacent about the lunch. IMOO

Erin was putting powdered mushrooms in her children's muffins, brownies, and everything, then telling friends they had no idea..!

I think this was also a practice run leading up to the lunch

Who would want to be putting powdered mushrooms in brownies and muffins anyway?

‘I’ve been hiding powdered mushrooms in everything’: Erin Patterson’s Facebook messages revealed

Victorian trial hears from online friends who say murder accused discussed her dehydrator and asked for advice on cooking beef wellington

www.theguardian.com

 

[Monstradamus]

But then also believe what the kids said when the daughter said EP used the toilet 10 times? Doesn't make sense. Unless the daughter were monitoring EP, she would have only come up with a specific number if it's what EP told her. MOO

Spot on. I'm guessing EP has an ensuite in that lovely house of hers. Sounds like coaching to me.
IMO

 

[Scooby-Doo]

Spot on. I'm guessing EP has an ensuite in that lovely house of hers. Sounds like coaching to me.
IMO

Or Erin is telling them, I have to go to the toilet again, this is my 10th time..!

 

[Detechtive]

To add to katy's point, it wasn't just deathcap mushrooms, but powdered deathcap mushrooms. If Erin had actually scraped any mushrooms off, it would have been the button mushrooms (the only type of mushroom flesh that was visible in the leftovers according to the Mycologist).

The notion that Erin or her kids could avoid being poisoned by a tainted wellington just because the non poisonous button mushrooms were scraped off is ridiculous. Especially since the information came from Erin herself, who repeatedly lied to family members, to health officials, to child protective services, to the police, and to the court.

For those that still see truth in this story, ask yourself this:
Would you be happy to eat the meat out of a leftover wellington that was crammed full of powdered deathcaps and cooked in the oven?
It's okay, you can scrape the button mushrooms off the top first.

.

Great point

 

[CityKid]

In spite of explanations she is not on trial for lying, and admonishments not to consider her lies prove her guilt of murdering her "loved ones", your statement of "I don’t think innocent people tell lie after lie after lie." is irrefutable. (imo)

That's where common sense comes in.

 

[Bats]

Right, they can't focus on it but why isn't it an option for the jury? They could say, well, we can't all agree on intent, but we can agree (because it's not on dispute) that she did put DC mushrooms in the meals.

Can you imagine Erin doing what she is alleged to have done but not intend to cause serious injury or death?

 

[CityKid]

Same fingers crossed

I hope they come back fresh and listen to the concerns of whichever jurors are in the minority at this point.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Is it possible there's a juror or two who are disaffected types and don't blame EP for wanting to off her entire family ? Or maybe think she probably did it but there's no actual proof because they don't accept circumstantial as fact?

I wonder if they're in dispute?

 

[Lisa4]

RSBM

Maybe it was because of Sub Judice rules. I don't think we can even give our own opinion on guilt or innocence under these rules.

I have been steering clear of giving my direct opiion as I think it would breach the rule. I am still very much confused by the rule as it seems very vague to me. Most here reveal their opinion on guilt/innocence indirectly.

Most of the stuff we write in this forum could potentially influence a juror if they were to read it.

If it's any help, I've been informed that anything deemed to be sub judice gets removed. Make of that what you can.

 

[katydid23]

I just looked up the Lori Daybell case. How shocking.

What Did Lori Vallow Do? A Timeline of Events in ‘Sins of Our Mother’

The docuseries tells the bizarre and chilling tale of Tylee Ryan and J.J. Vallow’s disappearance.

www.netflix.com

She is truly a vile waste of space/

 

[katydid23]

I'm thinking this could go well into next week now.

I think it will be finished on Friday, end of the day. I don't think they want to stay sequestered all weekend if they are close to a verdict.

 

[MrJ]

Yeah a week is a long time to not see family or friends. I’d say before 4:15 today we’ll have the result.

 

[Lisa4]

I really, really, really hope and want to be wrong but I still don't think we will hear today.

My reasoning behind this is that I think they've committed to dotting every i and crossing every t... possibly to meet the comfort threshold of responsibility for some/all of the jurors. And if that's so, then it will take as long as it takes, despite the nearness of the weekend.

As I said, I really hope I'm proved wrong... and that it comes by noon today.

 

[Lisa4]

Can you imagine Erin doing what she is alleged to have done but not intend to cause serious injury or death?

I believe that is the very first question they have to answer before they can move on to the next:

For reference

The four questions the jury must consider

View attachment 598788

The Erin Patterson jury has been sequestered. Here's what's happening

After more than two months of witness testimony, evidence and arguments, 12 people will decide the fate of accused murderer Erin Patterson.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Lisa4]

1 appear straightforwards to me.

3 could be a stumbling block but not too hard to prove with the evidence

4 once you get there also seems straightforward.

2 could be a brick wall?

IMOO

 

[Monstradamus]

1 appear straightforwards to me.

3 could be a stumbling block but not too hard to prove with the evidence

4 once you get there also seems straightforward.

2 could be a brick wall?

IMOO

I think they are stuck on 2.
MOO

 

[Lisa4]

It could just be taking a long time to work through if it was deliberate. I would want to be fully satisfied I had left no stone unturned before I proceeded to make my decision.