VERDICT WATCH Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #16 *Arrest*

[Kemug]

The judge said Ms Patterson’s defence had referenced an alleged conversation with her husband on August 1 where he accused her of poisoning his parents.
Simon Patterson denies this occurred.
Justice Beale said defence barrister Colin Mandy SC argued this alleged conversation was a “turning point” where Ms Patterson began panicking, fearing she would be wrongly blamed.

RSBM
So why is the judge deliberately underlining the point that Erin (allegedly) was "panicked" into lying by Simon saying something which he denies. What the?

 

[MrJ]

I admit my bias towards the case but I am trying to give Justice Beale the benefit of the doubt because we aren't getting the full transcript. It could well be he's not biased and in reality is just summarising all the arguments made during the trial and not favouring one particular side

edit: to be clear I don't think in reality he's biased. He's just doing what he has to do

 

[Lisa4]

IMO I suspect the media are reporting it to sound biased because - controversy is better for business

 

[Kittybunny]

@PingTheRouter - can you enlighten us with your perspective as to whether the judge’s instructions sound as favorable towards Erin as the reporting makes them sound?

Thank you!

 

[Kemug]

Being in prison suits EP, she looks well. She should probably just stay there anyway. Some people are well suited to being locked up IMO.

JMO MOO

But how would she fill her days? We (allegedly) know she is work-shy, probably couldn't be trusted to sweep under the mats and in the corners.
They wouldn't trust her in the kitchen. And I don't think they'd let her "surf the net" all day every day. Didn't she once work in animal welfare? Maybe she could help raise guide dogs, or something like that? But certainly not air traffic control.

 

[potr]

The judge is going into detail now about obvservations health workers made about Erin Patterson's condition in the days after the lunch.

There is talk of symptoms including tenderness in her abdomen and a heart rate that began at about 140 beats per minute, but settled to about 100 beats per minute over the course of two hours.

*****

Next we hear from a doctor who saw Erin Patterson in a hospital emergency department. The judge says the accused reported persistent nausea and diarrhoea at that point.

Justice Beale reminds the jury of the doctor's evidence that Ms Patterson "thought she had food poisoning from the beef Wellington she had prepared and consumed at about midday on the Saturday".

Under cross-examination, the doctor said their notes recorded the accused saying her diarrhoea was "initially brown in colour, explosive, every 10 minutes" and became "watery clear" by the Sunday after the lunch.

*****

The judge then briefly revists the evidence of a child protection officer, Katrina Cripps, who spoke with Erin Patterson in hospital on the afternoon of August 1.

We're told that Ms Patterson began feeling unwell on the Saturday afternoon.

*****

The judge turns his attention to evidence the trial heard about poisoning. We hear that variations in the amount of toxins consumed, individual "toxic tolerances", general health, age and weight can influence an individual's response to toxic substances.

Ms Patterson's health after the lunch then returns to the spotlight.

We hear detail from the accused's evidence-in-chief about experiencing frequent diarrhoea on the evening after the lunch, before taking immodium and dozing off at about 5 or 6 o'clock in the morning.

Judge recaps Erin Patterson's evidence as triple-murder trial nears end — as it happened

Justice Christopher Beale is continuing his instructions to the jury in Erin Patterson's murder trial. Ms Patterson is accused of killing three relatives by serving them a beef Wellington containing death cap mushrooms. Follow the proceedings as it happened.

www.abc.net.au

just have to say the protocol for taking immodium is - 2 tablets on the first episode - then 1 tablet every following episode (as someone who fairly frequently needs to deal with this issue - this is standard - 1 tablet is basically pathetic and ineffective) - she mentions taking "some" medication during the entire day/evening of the lunch and then said she took 1 dose (as a preventative) prior to her 1 hour (2 hours both way) expected drive to Tyabb the following day....
Interestingly I have an "intolerance" to mushrooms - but (unfortunately) like ep i love them so if I must insist on having them i naughtily take an immodium as a sort of preventative/mitigator immediately before consuming - taking any of it after is not a preventative - it is trying to stem the flow - even day or days after.

 

[potr]

But how would she fill her days? We know she is work-shy, probably couldn't be trusted to sweep under the mats and in the corners.
They wouldn't trust her in the kitchen. And I don't think they'd let her "surf the net" all day every day. Didn't she once work in animal welfare? Maybe she could help raise guide dogs, or something like that? But certainly not air traffic control.

oh my god - i wouldn't let anyone who enjoys inflicting any kind of pain on any animal - human or otherwise near any animal

 

[potr]

Possible is not the same as reasonable.


How does he have word for word?

I cannot fathom it, I told him he could get a job as a court reporter - its absolutely incredible to me that someone can get an entire days proceedings exact, word for word - but he is doing that -

caveat except for the bits he has deemed morally he cannot share such as not saying peoples names and refusing to share any information regarding interactions with the children - and although he didn't say i did notice that early on he did not mention any of the talk about erin's "weight loss" surgery/ eating disorders which I put down to censoring about healthcare issues.

 

[potr]

Don’t know how he has word for word, but he has been talking about being with other media in overflow. Not sure. I really don’t know much about his podcast but listened last night because a poster on here recommended it.

that would be me

 

[potr]

Oh dear. I hope no one has remotely factory reset his device.

ok so now does this mean tuesday they get the case? cos he lost maybe 5 minutes?

 

[potr]

The jury heard no evidence about whether Patterson's children would become ill if they ate the leftover meat from the beef wellingtons with the mushrooms and pastry scraped off, Beale said.

“No expert was asked if the mushroom paste and pastry has been scraped off the meat would the children, if served the meat, have experienced some symptoms,” he said.

The judge said Ms Patterson had given evidence that she fed leftovers with the mushrooms and pastry scraped off

“You have no evidence that would be the case ... I direct you to disregard that, you would be speculating if you went down that path.”


BUT JUSTICE BEALE

In separate pre-recorded interviews, the boy and his sister said that night, Ms Patterson told them they would be eating leftovers from lunch the previous day.

They described it as consisting of beef, mashed potatoes and green beans.

"It was very soft and it was probably some of the best meat I've ever had," the boy said.


" I cut it up into cubes and ate it'


Does Justice Beale realise the discrepancies in the evidence given??

So no expert is needed, because it was a different meal her children had eaten..!!

Erin Patterson was building Lego hours after serving deadly meal, court hears

Erin Patterson's triple-murder trial has been played a police interview filmed with her son weeks after a beef Wellington lunch which led to the deaths of three people.

www.abc.net.au

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/courts-law/erin-patterson-trial-judge-set-to-continue-address-on-mushroom-cooks-alleged-incriminating-conduct/news-story/350e9e0db536328e2cf605e3d86f3b0f

wow - thats interesting because re the meat ep said - and this is a NEAR QUOTE she "cut the meat up into cubes and microwaved it!!" - did the son then cut them into teenier cubes?

 

[arrogantcat]

I admit my bias towards the case but I am trying to give Justice Beale the benefit of the doubt because we aren't getting the full transcript. It could well be he's not biased and in reality is just summarising all the arguments made during the trial and not favouring one particular side

He’s the second most senior judge in the state. There’s no way he is biased, or representing anything but the law.

 

[arrogantcat]

Possible is not the same as reasonable.


How does he have word for word?

Shorthand! This is why it’s still taught on most journalism courses

 

[Scooby-Doo]

wow - thats interesting because re the meat ep said - and this is a NEAR QUOTE she "cut the meat up into cubes and microwaved it!!" - did the son then cut them into teenier cubes?

It's not the same meal, as she said she scraped the mushrooms and pastry off the meat.

Earlier in the trial, Patterson's nine-year-old daughter described the steak, mashed potatoes, and beans.

 

[potr]

Shorthand! This is why it’s still taught on most journalism courses

ping is not a trained journalist, he has said he worked in it. I asked him if he had studied stenography and he said no

 

[potr]

It's not the same meal, as she said she scraped the mushrooms and pastry off the meat.

Earlier in the trial, Patterson's nine-year-old daughter described the steak, mashed potatoes, and beans.

yes scraped those off - then she said cut the left meat into cubes and microwaved it!!

 

[Kemug]

This is just me idly thinking (maybe even speculating?!) Let's just imagine that the "unmarriage" was on a pretty even keel until Simon had the actual temerity to describe himself as "separated" on his tax return, on the advice of his accountant. For some reason this really enraged Erin. In fact, apparently she was incredibly enraged. Until then, I think she had always had the upper hand in this marriage and "partnership" - she had more money, and more say in making decisions. Possibly she was always the stronger character. And then for Simon to suddenly call himself "separated" without so much as a by-your-leave! She may have thought that was for her to decide. Maybe her pride was seriously dented. And it may have been sometimes convenient for her to have a husband on tap.
Whatever, I believe it wasn't too long after that, that Simon was dangerously ill in hospital? Some seriously suspect Erin. As do I, actually. Not just of "punishing" Simon by making him suffer, but of actually attempting to murder him. No, a normal person wouldn't act like that. But IMO Erin is not normal, far from it. Simon had really just recovered from his time in hospital when Erin struck again (IMO). It would look really suspicious if exactly the same thing happened to Simon again. So this time she decided to add his family to the mix, to disguise Simon being the real target. She must have been so furious when he didn't come to the poisoned feast! If she gets off, Simon would do well to move a long long way away. Of course this is just MOO!

 

[MaxDecimus13]

IMO there IS a strong, feasible motive- she hated his family. They didn't take her side and pressure Simon to support her. She wanted revenge.

Not only is this not a strong possible motive, the prosecution haven't come close to proving it.

I would hazard a guess that if I was given the phones of 95% of the people on here I would find instances of people talking in a very negative way about people that they actually like. You certainly would on mine. I've mentioned before how my in-laws can drive me up the wall but I love the bones of them.

An extremely ordinary family dispute is not a likely motive for murder. It is a possible one in an actual psychopath, but again this has never remotely been proven with EP.

 

[potr]

this is interesting:
"Following a comprehensive survey of a number of Australian and New Zealand judges in 2006, it was found that the average estimated length of the judge‘s charge to the jury following a ten day trial in Victoria was 255 minutes. For a twenty day trial, that figure increased to 349 minutes.

In contrast, our New Zealand brethren reported that the average charge for a ten day trial occupied some 76 minutes, and for a 20 day trial, 108 minutes. In fact, it was found that putting toone side New South Wales and Tasmania, jury directions in Victoria took far longer than any other state or territory in Australia. "

from JURY DIRECTIONS ON TRIAL – A PATHWAY THROUGH THELABYRINTH? A keynote address at the Supreme and Federal Court Judges' Conference, Darwin, 5–9 July 2014 by Mark Weinberg

 

[MaxDecimus13]

The jury doesn't have to be certain.

The jury has to have reasonable doubt that Erin's testimony is the actual truth.

So, to reasonably believe her, they would have to think her story is more accurate/truthful than every other witness who testified against her. (50+ witnesses, including experienced medical professionals, mycologist, poisoning experts, child protection worker, poisoning victim)

imo

I think this is a false dichotomy and they are two different things. The one thing we know from this trial with certainty is that she has lied on numerous occasions. She has clearly lied in some of her accounts with professionals.

However, those lies in themselves aren't sufficient to assert her guilt. As I've pointed out, there are other possible and even plausible motives for many of the lies.