VERDICT WATCH Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #16 *Arrest*

[BreakingNews]

It is not wisdom, but Authority that makes a law.
Thomas Hobbes
l

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I like your thinking but the previous alleged attempts on Simon's life, including the one that put him in a coma, all occurred before he declared himself separated on his tax return. Perhaps it was as a result of his suspicions that he gave up hope of living together as family again in the future?
I suspect that Erin had been trying remove him permanently from hers and the children's lives for some time but it had to be on her terms and a legal separation with shared custody was not what she wanted hence the last ditch effort to lure him back for the final attempt.
All moo.

From following this case in depth since the deaths first happened, although I agree with your idea, at the same time, honestly I don't imagine she wanted SP back. That's the strange part.

She was clearly fed up in the relationship, long since had grievances, had left SP several times when they were together, they had completely split up and were living separately. Being a devoutly religious man, maybe he wasn't willing to grant a divorce (can happen in some religions 'we're married in the eyes of god for life')? Did she want a divorce and had been told 'no', 'not yet', or 'when the children are 18'?

Was she trying to kill him because she just wanted shot of him? Maybe she perceived him as a bothersome irritant in her life who increasingly didn't do what she wanted and she had begun to feel disrespected and mocked by (not invited to 70th birthday / putting 'separated' on the tax form etc).

JMO MOO

 

[HoneyBunOne]

RSBM
Hi Max, did you see my current speculation (in what was then #457) that it is Simon whom Erin has been trying to kill all along? Ever since he called himself "separated"? And it's possible he was seeing someone else, she followed him and confirmed it. That would have been like "a red rag to a bull." She would have thought it was just the same as being unfaithful. I have come to agree with you that killing your partner's family because you think they side with him against you is not enough of a motive for murdering them. Not remotely. And she should therefore maybe be found Not Guilty because of that lack of motive.
But as a coverup for the "accidental" poisoning and death of Simon? I think she was quite happy to sacrifice them, probably couldn't care less if they lived or died. I wouldn't give any credence to her statement of how much she loved them. I don't think she is capable of true love, not even towards her children.
I wonder if LE will investigate further, and maybe recharge her for the attempted murder of Simon, whether she is found guilty or not? They left it open. I would be interested to know your views on this.

BBM
Motive does not come into play. There is no need for jurors to know or understand the reason why. Many times the motive dies with a killer and it's never, ever disclosed. The jurors need to clarify IF she did it, not WHY she may have reasons to.

 

[Jake18]

From following this case in depth since the deaths first happened, although I agree with your idea, at the same time, honestly I don't imagine she wanted SP back. That's the strange part.

She was clearly fed up in the relationship, long since had grievances, had left SP several times when they were together, they had completely split up and were living separately. Being a devoutly religious man, maybe he wasn't willing to grant a divorce (can happen in some religions 'we're married in the eyes of god for life')? Did she want a divorce and had been told 'no', 'not yet', or 'when the children are 18'?

Was she trying to kill him because she just wanted shot of him? Maybe she perceived him as a bothersome irritant in her life who increasingly didn't do what she wanted and she had begun to feel disrespected and mocked by (not invited to 70th birthday / putting 'separated' on the tax form etc).

JMO MOO

I don’t think she necessarily wanted him to move on, though. She didn’t want him, but she still wanted those family connections. I don’t she would have/will be happy if/when he re partners

 

[Monstradamus]

I would be interesting to know more about the nature of this online group that EP was discussing her personal and family affairs within. Was she sharing intimately her thoughts and feelings with a group of women she had come to know over many years? A small, private, group where people had over a long time established the safety and freedom to speak in confidence about things troubling them.

Or was she generally running people in her life down quite openly in barely private arenas? And everything in between?

JMO MOO

She was on several online crime groups. I found her and her witchie friends to be bullies. She had over 20 FB profiies that I knew of. EP harassed and ridiculed other group members, she was very brave behind her keyboard. If you didn't agree with her point of view, look out. From there it split off, and I believe she had a smaller group of friends on a private group chat. My experience only.

 

[katydid23]

I think this is a false dichotomy and they are two different things. The one thing we know from this trial with certainty is that she has lied on numerous occasions. She has clearly lied in some of her accounts with professionals.

However, those lies in themselves aren't sufficient to assert her guilt. As I've pointed out, there are other possible and even plausible motives for many of the lies.

Just because there are other 'possible' reasons it does not mean the jury has to automatically accept those reasons instead of it being a cover up for guilt.

They can decide that her lies were actually designed to cover for her guilty actions.

 

[katydid23]

Not only is this not a strong possible motive, the prosecution haven't come close to proving it.

I would hazard a guess that if I was given the phones of 95% of the people on here I would find instances of people talking in a very negative way about people that they actually like. You certainly would on mine. I've mentioned before how my in-laws can drive me up the wall but I love the bones of them.

An extremely ordinary family dispute is not a likely motive for murder. It is a possible one in an actual psychopath, but again this has never remotely been proven with EP.

Sure, I believe what you are saying. You may get annoyed but you love and respect them.

Would you ever lie to them, telling them you had prostrate cancer, and needed chemo, so they would take care of your kids so you could have liposuction?

Would you lie and tell them you just had a biopsy but ask them not to tell your kids? And would you sit and let them pray over you while you pretended to have life threatening illness?


If your in-laws that you love, were in the ICU, with their organs shutting down, would you continue to lie about what you had just served them for lunch?

 

[Kemug]

I like your thinking but the previous alleged attempts on Simon's life, including the one that put him in a coma, all occurred before he declared himself separated on his tax return. Perhaps it was as a result of his suspicions that he gave up hope of living together as family again in the future?
I suspect that Erin had been trying remove him permanently from hers and the children's lives for some time but it had to be on her terms and a legal separation with shared custody was not what she wanted hence the last ditch effort to lure him back for the final attempt.
All moo.

Oh no, I've just wasted so much time!

 

[katydid23]

<modsnip>

If I cooked a meal and accidentally killed my in-laws there would be all sorts of potential ramifications.

But I cannot even get to the 'accidentally' served death caps portion of the scenario.

There are just so many problems and inconsistencies with that version of the story.

She is a very smart woman. She claims she was looking up Death Caps for safety concerns. So how did she end up purposely picking wild mushrooms near Oak Trees? Why didn't she compare the characteristics of the death caps to pictures of death caps?

And why did she say that she learned there were no DCs in Gippsland area? That seems to be another lie.


Why did she pick delicious fresh mushrooms, that she LOVES and not taste any of them before drying them out and throwing them in Tupperware with funny smelling pungent ones?

Why would she add the old dried out pungent mushrooms to her gourmet expensive special meal?

How did she not know those were foraged mushrooms? Did she really pick unknown unverified mushrooms and put them in her pantry where she used foods for her kids to eat?

That seems very negligent for someone so devoted to her children.

How did those foraged mushrooms not get added to any of her kids meals?

How did she escape severe illness? She powdered those mushrooms, most likely.

Why did she want the kids away from home while she served the meal? She tried to deny it during the trial, but that was a lie she tried to walk back.

She claims both her kids were mistaken when they said they were told it was a meal for grown ups discussions. But it was obviously the truth. Why did she need to lie about that?

She said she began feeling unwell on Saturday afternoon. But none of the others felt unwell that soon. And she appears to be lying about having explosive poo every 10 minutes. She would not have taken a 3 hour road trip in white pants imo. And she never went poo in the bush either.


There is no innocent reasons for all of her lies, imo.

Not only would I feel guilty, shameful and mortified, I would likely face accusations from members of the family and members of the general public. It would affect dealings in every aspect of my life, my friends might doubt me and distance themselves, it might affect my work etc.

So if your beloved in-laws were in intensive care, would you continue to lie about what you 'accidentally' served them?

In my instance, I would be concerned about physical threats. Of course this is sufficient motive to make it look like it wasn't your fault; if you can pass the blame off onto somebody else (ie Asian grocers) then many people would take that option.

Should there be any legal ramifications for that kind of lying? Or is it OK because it's fine to lie in order to hide one's mistakes?

That is not to say that I think that this is what happened, but I believe in being truthful about all of the evidence in this case. Even if I think she is guilty, I'm not going to pretend that people wouldn't absolutely act this way in this situation.

Maybe some people would but does that make it right?

Even IF it was an accident, it was very irresponsible and negligent on her part.

She should not have picked wild mushrooms if she didn't know how to ID Death Caps.
She should not have put them in her food pantry without identifying if they were safe to eat.

She should not have served unidentified unverified wild mushrooms to others.

And once they were ill, she should have come clean.

You seem to be saying it was OK that she lied and lied again to her family, the doctors, CPS, the Public Health Officials, the jury, because she didn't want to be blamed for her own negligence. [at best]

 

[JBowie]

There is no innocent reasons for all of her lies, imo.

 

[Kemug]

I thought she left the poo in the bushes but took the soiled wipes with her?
All moot, though, because I don’t think the bush poo happened - something else was thrown away in that toilet, IMO

All the poo talk - I for one wouldn't like to have that image forever associated with me, in prison or not. Just imagine it, every time someone sees you they think "Oh, there's that woman who pooed by the side of the road!" Maybe she should have counted to 10 before she told that lovely little story.

 

[Kemug]

RSBM
"Think"? What is this "think" you speak of?

Sorry, should have said "of which you speak"!

 

[katydid23]

https://www.journal-of-hepatology.eu/article/S0168-8278(06)00615-5/fulltext

This isn’t the original paper but, interestingly, elevated liver functions (which Erin didn’t have) are part of the actual diagnostic criteria for death cap ingestion.

Moreover, early onset of diarrhoea (within 8 hours of ingestion, that Erin claimed she had) is a very very poor prognostic indicator - and clinicians should consider early liver transplant if that occurs.

Yes, I think @drsleuth mentioned that her allegedly early onset of explosive diarrhoea could indicate a greater level of toxins than the others.

 

[MrJ]

I wouldn't be surprised if the jury had a problem with beyond reasonable doubt with all the conflicting info thrown at them. I probably would too tbh

 

[Kemug]

Being a devoutly religious man, maybe he wasn't willing to grant a divorce (can happen in some religions 'we're married in the eyes of god for life')? Did she want a divorce and had been told 'no', 'not yet', or 'when the children are 18'

RSBM
Didn't he say something like that once? "I will always be your husband"? But that seemed to me to be him reassuring her.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Pathological liars???

Or people hiding the murder of 3 victims...

 

[Deleted member 363451]

I feel like the jury has been provided with the tip of the iceberg only, and whatever is lurking under the surface, they’re not aware of. IMO

 

[JBowie]

I feel like the jury has been provided with the tip of the iceberg only, and whatever is lurking under the surface, they’re not aware of. IMO

I'd love to know what evidence was ruled out prior to the trial.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Exaggerating your symptoms is not the same as lying about your symptoms.

As far as this case is concerned it has not been proved that she wasn't poisoned. There was a study included in the trial that conceded that some people can only have gastro-like symptoms in response to ingesting DC mushrooms, depending on age, weight and tolerance to the toxins

So she managed to drive to Tyabb Airport and back, with stops along the way for take away, after supposedly eating poisonous mushrooms? The medical staff could find no proof that she was suffering from any symptoms of ingesting Death Caps.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

She was on several online crime groups. I found her and her witchie friends to be bullies. She had over 20 FB profiies that I knew of. EP harassed and ridiculed other group members, she was very brave behind her keyboard. If you didn't agree with her point of view, look out. From there it split off, and I believe she had a smaller group of friends on a private group chat. My experience only.

Over 20 alias FB profiles is very extreme...