VERDICT WATCH Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #16 *Arrest*

[BreakingNews]

The issue of reasonable doubt is going to be key in this case I think.

I'm sure my antipodean friends will be more familiar with the case of Phillip Polkinghorn.

This case makes the evidence against EP look minimal by comparison, but a mixture of a prosecution that left holes to be exploited and the use of reasonable doubt ended with him getting off.

I wonder if the key elements of the prosecution not doing enough to prove the likelihood of DC toxicity, and the incredibly high bar for reasonable doubt set by the judge will be the defining feature of this case.

You make a good point. Phillip Polkinghorne case set the bar high for the prosecution.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

The issue of reasonable doubt is going to be key in this case I think.

I'm sure my antipodean friends will be more familiar with the case of Phillip Polkinghorn.

This case makes the evidence against EP look minimal by comparison, but a mixture of a prosecution that left holes to be exploited and the use of reasonable doubt ended with him getting off.

I wonder if the key elements of the prosecution not doing enough to prove the likelihood of DC toxicity, and the incredibly high bar for reasonable doubt set by the judge will be the defining feature of this case.

I wonder if the key elements of the prosecution not doing enough to prove the likelihood of DC toxicity, and the incredibly high bar for reasonable doubt set by the judge will be the defining feature of this case.

You have to be kidding? Three people died of Death Cap poisoning and another almost died. How much more proof do you need?

 

[tmar]

Serious question. What would become of someone like EP if she isn't convicted?

Would friends and family of the deceased have a right to take their own separate case?

Could prosecution come back at a different time with fresh evidence if they ever find any?

How would EP viably conduct a life in the aftermath of such devastation and suspicion?

Just wondering.
.

I would think, move interstate, change her name, and appearance: especially hair.
Guess the gastric bypass will be required.

 

[jesse]

Totally agree, albeit I am the one who "dreamed up the cake/gravy theory".

The post above lumped the theory in with "making up motives we have no evidence for". The theory is nothing to do with motive, it is an entirely separate issue.

Do people really think her plan would have included going through all this trauma to find that it was "her accident"? The way this has panned out, her life is ruined either way. She is not going to be found not guilty (if she is) and have her life carry on unaffected. Everyone, including her own kids, is going to have serious doubts moving forward.

She is (was) too smart to have planned for the finger of blame (even accidental) to have been pointed at her IF everything went as planned. It didn't, because Simon didn't come and the others didn't die before being able to speak to authorities.

There was another part to the plan IMO which we may never know. I've mentioned mushroom gravy brought by a guest. Someone else mentioned fruit salad. You've mentioned 4 avid foragers. It isn't relevant to the verdict, but people are not fully understanding her personality, if they think she was happy for her name to be dragged through the mud for the past 2 years.

I understand that she's intelligent, but I don't know if she really had a plan. I almost wonder if she was so used to getting away with things- and was so detached from actual consequences, that she thought her explanations would be believed and not questioned or investigated. Why didn't she get rid of the dehydrator until Tuesday (I think). Because she started to realize the questions weren't going away. The clinical staff weren't going to stop - they actually REALLY wanted to save these people's lives. The public health authorities weren't going to stop - if DC mushrooms were being unknowningly sold through a commercial store, they needed to find and stop it immediately.

You can be very smart and still have poor judgement. You can be very smart and still very unrealistic.

All my opinion only, of course.

 

[SouthAussie]

"Jurors in the triple-murder trial of Erin Patterson are poised to be sent out to deliberate their verdict on Monday after the judge finishes delivering his final remarks.

“I’ll be completing the charge prior to lunchtime on Monday, at which point we’ll have the ballot and away you go so to speak,” he said.

At the start of the trial 10 weeks ago, jurors were told they would be sequestered for the duration of their deliberations.

The case is expected to resume in the town of Morwell at 10.30am on Monday."

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/courts-law/erin-patterson-trial-jurors-expected-to-be-sent-out-to-deliberate-verdict-in-mushroom-murder-case/news-story/aa7f3775881a7693be4ac3fe2d728caa

 

[SouthAussie]

"Justice Beale said he wanted to ‘focus on confirmed lies’ which would help the jury ‘assess Patterson’s credibility’ while he gave directions to the jury on how to assess the alleged incriminating conduct.

‘You can use the fact she lied to help determine the truthfulness of things she said,’ he said.

Justice Beale told the jury if they believed she lied to cover up the crime, they still needed to stake into account all of the evidence observed during the trial.
‘It includes, as you know, alleged lies,’ Justice Beale said.

Justice Beale said if the jury believed Patterson told lies they could use it against her credibility."

Erin Patterson mushroom murder trial LIVE updates

Follow Daily Mail Australia's live coverage of accused mushroom chef Erin Patterson's murder trial here.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[MrJ]

Very exciting day today. I wonder if manslaughter will be included on the table as a possibility verdict

 

[SouthAussie]

"Dr Dimitri Gerostamoulos said: ‘It would be likely that there would be some adverse outcomes for that person who survived.'

Justice Beale reminded the jury in Victoria last year that there was an incident where two people consumed the same meal containing death cap mushrooms where one person died while the other one was 'significantly ill' for a period and ended up in the ICU."

Erin Patterson mushroom murder trial LIVE updates

Follow Daily Mail Australia's live coverage of accused mushroom chef Erin Patterson's murder trial here.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Doesitmakesense]

I think we will be lucky if we get verdict by the end of the week

 

[ellyvantelli]

"Jurors in the triple-murder trial of Erin Patterson are poised to be sent out to deliberate their verdict on Monday after the judge finishes delivering his final remarks.

“I’ll be completing the charge prior to lunchtime on Monday, at which point we’ll have the ballot and away you go so to speak,” he said.

At the start of the trial 10 weeks ago, jurors were told they would be sequestered for the duration of their deliberations.

The case is expected to resume in the town of Morwell at 10.30am on Monday."

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/courts-law/erin-patterson-trial-jurors-expected-to-be-sent-out-to-deliberate-verdict-in-mushroom-murder-case/news-story/aa7f3775881a7693be4ac3fe2d728caa

Very exciting day today. I wonder if manslaughter will be included on the table as a possibility verdict

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ee/Beet5mov1bars1to5.ogg
[apologies, couldn't resist adding a bit of drama ]

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

What are the odds that the jurors really do start today?

 

[MrJ]

What are the odds that the jurors really do start today?

Quite high, IMO. Judge will finish his instructions 'before lunchtime' and then the jurors will be sequestered and will begin deliberations.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

I knew that I'd seen this somewhere before.

"Erin Patterson had a collection of books about mushrooms which she kept at her home where her fatal beef wellington lunch took place, Daily Mail Australia has been told.

A friend claimed the shelves of her family home at Leongatha included books about delicious yet potentially deadly fungi."

I don't know whether this is true, as it's the same friend who said that Erin and her family were keen foragers...

Erin Patterson had a 'collection of mushroom books' at her home

Deadly cook Erin Patterson had a collection of books about mushrooms she kept at her home where three people died, Daily Mail Australia has been told.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Hercule Holmes]

I understand that she's intelligent, but I don't know if she really had a plan. I almost wonder if she was so used to getting away with things- and was so detached from actual consequences, that she thought her explanations would be believed and not questioned or investigated. Why didn't she get rid of the dehydrator until Tuesday (I think). Because she started to realize the questions weren't going away. The clinical staff weren't going to stop - they actually REALLY wanted to save these people's lives. The public health authorities weren't going to stop - if DC mushrooms were being unknowningly sold through a commercial store, they needed to find and stop it immediately.

You can be very smart and still have poor judgement. You can be very smart and still very unrealistic.

All my opinion only, of course.

That's ok, we disagree. But I think you're looking at what did happen, as opposed to what she expected to happen.

If the plan had gone as she foresaw, the dehydrator, the clinical staff, public health authorities, commercial store selling mushrooms etc. were all irrelevant.

The guests were meant to all die, relatively quickly, at home, without any of the above actually happening. She would be the sole survivor of the lunch and thus the only one who could say what occurred. The police knock on her door, she lets them find a container with DC residue that one of the guests brought to the lunch. Police then move along to establish a tragic accident, caused by one of the guests. When this didn't happen, of course she was presented with a sandwich and the whole thing looked poorly thought out.

She should have pulled out when Simon didn't come. That was her big mistake, with the months of planning and money already spent, overriding common sense to bide her time IMO.

Edit: Have people thought about why she went to so much trouble with the meal, but only used packet gravy?

 

[Deleted member 363451]

That's ok, we disagree. But I think you're looking at what did happen, as opposed to what she expected to happen.

If the plan had gone as she foresaw, the dehydrator, the clinical staff, public health authorities, commercial store selling mushrooms etc. were all irrelevant.

The guests were meant to all die, relatively quickly, at home, without any of the above actually happening. She would be the sole survivor of the lunch and thus the only one who could say what occurred. The police knock on her door, she lets them find a container with DC residue that one of the guests brought to the lunch. Police then move along to establish a tragic accident, caused by one of the guests. When this didn't happen, of course she was presented with a sandwich and the whole thing looked poorly thought out.

She should have pulled out when Simon didn't come. That was her big mistake, with the months of planning and money already spent, overriding common sense to bide her time IMO.

Why would one of the lunch guests bring a container of dried mushrooms to the lunch? This just isn't believable IMO.

 

[Hercule Holmes]

Why would one of the lunch guests bring a container of dried mushrooms to the lunch? This just isn't believable IMO.

It would have a been a "lovely mushroom gravy".

Why do you think she only had rubbish packet gravy for such a well-prepared meal?

The story afterwards would have been, "they all had the mushroom gravy, but I had the packet stuff as there wasn't quite enough".

 

[Lisa4]

But I think you're looking at what did happen, as opposed to what she expected to happen.

100% Agree. Stand in her place *before the event* as an unknown rural country town mum, and needing to keep it that way. Then look at it all from there.

The police knock on her door, she lets them find a container with DC residue that one of the guests brought to the lunch. Police then move along to establish a tragic accident, caused by one of the guests.

I don't think she factored in deathcap toxins detection or police for a second.

Just thought the guests would die of "severe gastro". Unconnected cases... no pointed fingers, just lots of sympathy to EP at the loss of her inlaws and children's grandparents.

After all, she was just an unknown rural country town mum, remember?


All if guilty and alleged.

 

[MrJ]

2m ago

Court reumes​

By Melissa Brown​

The jury has returned to courtroom 4 at the Latrobe Valley Law Courts.

Justice Beale has explained that the jury keepers will take an affirmation this morning.

They are three people who will look after the jurors during their deliberations.

The jury has not gone out yet.

Justice Beale now resumes his directions.

Jury begins deliberations in Erin Patterson triple-murder trial — as it happened

The jury in Erin Patterson's triple murder trial has begun its deliberations. Follow proceedings as they happened.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Deleted member 363451]

It would have a been a "lovely mushroom gravy".

Why do you think she only had rubbish packet gravy for such a well-prepared meal?

The story afterwards would have been, "they all had the mushroom gravy, but I had the packet stuff as there wasn't quite enough".

I can't see it to be honest. I think even Erin would have come up with something better than that...

 

[MrJ]

1m ago
Justice Beale returns to Erin Patterson's alleged lies
Melissa Brown profile image
By Melissa Brown

Justice Beale takes up where he left off last week regarding Erin Patterson's alleged lies to people investigating the poisoning.

He's reading a transcript of Ms Patterson's text messages with her estranged husband Simon Patterson when he said he wouldn't come to the lunch, including how she said she wanted to have an important conversation with the guests.

He then goes onto Ian Wilkinson's explanation about how he believed Ms Patterson invited them to lunch to tell them she had cancer, and child protection worker Katrina Cripps' evidence in court about her notes saying Ms Patterson said she wanted to discuss a medical issue.

Jury begins deliberations in Erin Patterson triple-murder trial — as it happened

The jury in Erin Patterson's triple murder trial has begun its deliberations. Follow proceedings as they happened.

www.abc.net.au