Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #3

[jjenny]

could be if the mushroom picking was a family outing and someone accidentally picked a death cap and took it home to dry and powder and she hadnt checked what theyd picked?

She hasn't claimed she used any foraged mushrooms.

 

[JLZ]

I would not panic if I knew I’d done nothing wrong.

It's possible to feel and act like a guilty person when you're not, only because the circumstances are incriminating. There's an Agatha Christie story about it. The innocent person, who is set up by her husband, gets so overwhelmed she confesses to the crime. I've experienced it myself as well.

 

[SMK777]

could be if the mushroom picking was a family outing and someone accidentally picked a death cap and took it home to dry and powder and she hadnt checked what theyd picked?

Possibly. But wouldn’t be a criminal act.

 

[kiwilaura]

Have been following this case but have been away travelling so not replying.

I am quite bemused/perplexed by the number of people proposing alternative theories like framing, or the teenagers being responsible for mistaken mushroom identification, or that the deceased getting sick at another meal on the same day. As far as I know, there's been nothing to suggest at all that another meal may be the issue. Even EP acknowledges her meal is the problem, hence why she also "got sick". It seems pretty clear that the Beef Wellington is the source of the poisoned food.

I guess it's fun to be devil's advocate but some of the propositions seem incredibly far-fetched. Is it just that people want to give the benefit of the doubt or do people really see something in EP that makes you feel she would not be capable? I am really curious as I am a big believer in Occams Razor, though I would be quite willing to be blindsided by an alternative!

There are only two theories I personally (IMHO, MOO) could consider:
1) Someone did switch out the mushrooms and EP was the intended target. Very reasonable theory, though that person would have to be confident the teens would not also eat the meal or
2) EP intended to make the guests ill but not die.

The later seeming unlikely given how aware how poisonous death caps are.

MOO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I decided to dive into this thread just a little bit ago, had no idea what I was getting into!

I realize we don't have all the evidence, of course, but I'm definitely finding EP and her actions highly suspicious.

I also find it interesting that so many people seem willing to give her the benefit of the doubt, whereas I think if she was a man accused of attempting this sort of thing, I don't think that would be the case. And they do say poison is a woman's weapon.

As for motive, I do believe it's likely financial, custodial, and revenge. I surmise that if Simon and her were only separated, perhaps he was asking for a divorce, so he could move on to the next relationship. A divorce would be final, and if she is the one who had more assets, she would have to share them with him potentially (I do not know Australian law on this though, but in the US, it varies from state to state, but there could definitely be a situation where he would be entitled to 50% of all her assets) and perhaps a different custody arrangement.

It could also be revenge. "You left me, if I can't have you no one will". And then when he didn't show up, she decided to inflict pain on him in a different way.

There was a recent case in the US where the husband shot the kids right in front of the mother because she was going to leave him. He didn't kill her, but he did kill the children knowing the pain it would cause her for the rest of her life.

This is an unusual situation, no doubt, because it involves the in-laws. But if she saw them as influencing him to not get back together with her, then that definitely could be motive. And anyway trying to ascribe rational motives to murderers, is always almost an exercise in futility.

Have they said how long toxicology is expected to take?

I only give her the benefit of the doubt as I'm waiting to find out more.

Also because this crime literally makes no sense, insofar as no-one would ever get away with it, if she knows how the mushrooms work she would be aware of that. So it's not exactly a sensible crime to invite 5 people to your home and wipe them all out in one go.

Husband pulled out at short notice and the fourth victim is alive obv so it's not five dead but it would have been. I don't suppose anyone would think that's a realistic plan?

I feel like there's something more to all this

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

The biggest problem I have with the theory that someone wanted to frame EP is that the culprit would have to be willing to also murder two innocent children. Some recipes such as cream soups contain mushrooms that once blended are unrecognizable so there’s no guarantee the kids wouldn’t end up poisoned too.

In fact there would be no way to control who ended up ingesting the poison so you’d have to look for someone who didn’t care who died. And had access to EP’s cupboard.
JMO

Not if they'd arranged for the kids to be taken out for the afternoon to the cinema

I don't nec feel convinced the poison was in EP's food and what if someone poisoned them when they were on their way around there, someone they might have checked in on and had a cup of coffee and a chat about how they were going to manage the conversation, before departing to EP's house

 

[SMK777]

Have been following this case but have been away travelling so not replying.

I am quite bemused/perplexed by the number of people proposing alternative theories like framing, or the teenagers being responsible for mistaken mushroom identification, or that the deceased getting sick at another meal on the same day. As far as I know, there's been nothing to suggest at all that another meal may be the issue. Even EP acknowledges her meal is the problem, hence why she also "got sick". It seems pretty clear that the Beef Wellington is the source of the poisoned food.

I guess it's fun to be devil's advocate but some of the propositions seem incredibly far-fetched. Is it just that people want to give the benefit of the doubt or do people really see something in EP that makes you feel she would not be capable? I am really curious as I am a big believer in Occams Razor, though I would be quite willing to be blindsided by an alternative!

There are only two theories I personally (IMHO, MOO) could consider:
1) Someone did switch out the mushrooms and EP was the intended target. Very reasonable theory, though that person would have to be confident the teens would not also eat the meal or
2) EP intended to make the guests ill but not die.

The later seeming unlikely given how aware how poisonous death caps are.

MOO

Very well stated.

 

[jjleroche]

I wouldn’t be surprised if someone is attempting to frame EP. Beginning to think that the mushrooms she served were perfectly safe and she panicked when someone accused her of mushroom poisoning. And wondering if someone reminded the contractor of the “death wall” and suggested he contact the news. JMO.

I wouldn’t be surprised if someone is attempting to frame EP. Beginning to think that the mushrooms she served were perfectly safe and she panicked when someone accused her of mushroom poisoning. And wondering if someone reminded the contractor of the “death wall” and suggested he contact the news. JMO.

I agree. There are no toxicology results yet to confirm that the deaths were caused toxins in mushrooms.
We may well learn that the mushrooms were not the cause of the deaths at all.

You raise a very good point regarding the "death wall." (I was rather astonished when I read that the contractor employed at the house had taken it upon himself to take a photo of it, and then allegedly sell it to a news outlet.)

That seems very strange to me. I don't imagine that this particular contractor will get much more work in the area, given the associated appalling invasion of privacy, not to mention peddling and selling the photo to a news outlet. Thoroughly lacking in integrity and professionalism IMO.

The other thing which seems strange is the timing of this action. On the face of it, when the contractor was working at the house (obviously prior to the "lunch" occurring, so before suspicions re EP had been raised) he decided to take a photo of the wall.

Why? As numerous posters have said, in their view, the wall drawings and text seemed relatively normal from their perspectives, although others disagree. Interesting that he'd bother to take a photo, rather than mind his own business, get on with the job, and then leave (as any other contractor I've ever known would do.)

The other issue re the wall, is that we don't know who was responsible for the wall's writings/drawings. Could have been anyone who had access to the house. MOO

There have been several pieces of "information" provided to the media about this case from apparently unverified sources (in which case, I'm not sure why they have been published.) I can't find the post showing the media outlet source of the "wall" photo.
Does anyone know? TIA

 

[jjenny]

In which universe does that wall look relatively normal? Seriously? I haven't seen death walls in any of the houses I have visited.

 

[SMK777]

Its possible EP might be innocent. Maybe they got sick from something they consumed before or after the lunch. Moo.

EP herself has admitted that it was her lunch which caused the problem, and that is why she presented at the emergency room where she was given IV fluids and a liver detox medication.

We’ve all heard stories such as the one in the early 2000s about the franchise Chi Chi’s Mexican restaurant in the state of Pennsylvania which caused an outbreak of hepatitis A through undercooked green onions.

Other franchises in other states have had e-coli outbreaks from undercooked beef or listeria from salad bars.

*Hospital officials look at the last meal ingested; not the countless snacks and drinks that hundreds of people ate before that.

 

[jjenny]

Not if they'd arranged for the kids to be taken out for the afternoon to the cinema

I don't nec feel convinced the poison was in EP's food and what if someone poisoned them when they were on their way around there, someone they might have checked in on and had a cup of coffee and a chat about how they were going to manage the conversation, before departing to EP's house

Cup of coffee doesn't countain mushrooms. And why would EP show up in the hospital claming to be sick? As far asI can tell, she went in, got send home, and then returned again. So she is either actually sick, or is claiming to be sick because she knows she cooked a very special meal there.

 

[jjenny]

I only give her the benefit of the doubt as I'm waiting to find out more.

Also because this crime literally makes no sense, insofar as no-one would ever get away with it, if she knows how the mushrooms work she would be aware of that. So it's not exactly a sensible crime to invite 5 people to your home and wipe them all out in one go.

Husband pulled out at short notice and the fourth victim is alive obv so it's not five dead but it would have been. I don't suppose anyone would think that's a realistic plan?

I feel like there's something more to all this

There are a lot of crimes that don't make sense.

 

[kiwilaura]

I guess the other option is that SP wanted all of them dead, including his ex wife and he set it all up (somehow ensuring the mushrooms would be used) and had arranged for the kids to go to the cinema. Hence why he didn’t show - to protect himself.

However, the poisoning takes long enough (death cap poisoning usually is people feeling unwell, then apparently recovering a little, then rapid decline to death) that there is still the very real risk the kids would eat leftovers at home (which is, apparently, exactly what happened).

So again, that theory is incredibly problematic unless he was happy to risk his kids.

My hunch is that EP thinks that by presenting at the hospital, it can be framed as an unfortunate accident and that she got lucky. That although she is responsible, she is not criminally culpable as she had no idea the mushrooms were DC variety.

I guess that could also be the truth?

 

[nightrider17]

I think everyone brain storming different theories is good to eliminate rule out possibilities.

eg:

Did one of the guests make a pavlova and bring it to the gathering for dessert and the cream was off, it all got eaten and the children never had any.

Let's go through this possibility and cross it off the list as not likely by the evidence of the hospital staff and the symptoms of the patients.

eg - Did the neighbour say they had a infest of rats lately and she gave EP a container of ratsak to take care of the problem and EP mixed up that container with ..... insert idea. Tick this off the list move on. MOO

 

[kiwilaura]

Also, I suspect the “leftovers” saved by EP May come back completely clear of any sign of DC mushrooms.

 

[jjenny]

I think everyone brain storming different theories is good to eliminate rule out possibilities.

eg:

Did one of the guests make a pavlova and bring it to the gathering for dessert and the cream was off, it all got eaten and the children never had any.

Let's go through this possibility and cross it off the list as not likely by the evidence of the hospital staff and the symptoms of the patients.

eg - Did the neighbour say they had a infest of rats lately and she gave EP a container of ratsak to take care of the problem and EP mixed up that container with ..... insert idea. Tick this off the list move on. MOO

I am puzzled why pavlova keeps get mentioned here, when literally not a single msm article mentions pavlova in any way, shape or form. Nobody involved in the case has said anything whatsover about any pavlovas. Also, pavlovas don't contain mushrooms.

 

[jjenny]

Also, I suspect the “leftovers” saved by EP May come back completely clear of any sign of DC mushrooms.

I wouldn't be surprised. My guess the poison was in the sauce or gravy (which is usually served with beef Wellington).

 

[DeDee]

In which universe does that wall look relatively normal? Seriously? I haven't seen death walls in any of the houses I have visited.

I will agree, in my circle, it is not normal to walk into one's dining room to see tombstones and such dreary drawings with scary words written with red and bleu markers. It is odder still that it's on a dining room wall and wasn't covered by paint when living there. Have some people found peace and happiness in the drawing?

 

[jjleroche]

Have been following this case but have been away travelling so not replying.

I am quite bemused/perplexed by the number of people proposing alternative theories like framing, or the teenagers being responsible for mistaken mushroom identification, or that the deceased getting sick at another meal on the same day. As far as I know, there's been nothing to suggest at all that another meal may be the issue. Even EP acknowledges her meal is the problem, hence why she also "got sick". It seems pretty clear that the Beef Wellington is the source of the poisoned food.

I guess it's fun to be devil's advocate but some of the propositions seem incredibly far-fetched. Is it just that people want to give the benefit of the doubt or do people really see something in EP that makes you feel she would not be capable? I am really curious as I am a big believer in Occams Razor, though I would be quite willing to be blindsided by an alternative!

There are only two theories I personally (IMHO, MOO) could consider:
1) Someone did switch out the mushrooms and EP was the intended target. Very reasonable theory, though that person would have to be confident the teens would not also eat the meal or
2) EP intended to make the guests ill but not die.

The later seeming unlikely given how aware how poisonous death caps are.

MOO

There has been no confirmation whatsoever at this stage, that the mushrooms (or anything else) ingested at lunch meal caused the deaths.

Accordingly, it's useful to maintain an open mind, and not jump to conclusions IMO.

 

[SMK777]

I think everyone brain storming different theories is good to eliminate rule out possibilities.

eg:

Did one of the guests make a pavlova and bring it to the gathering for dessert and the cream was off, it all got eaten and the children never had any.

Let's go through this possibility and cross it off the list as not likely by the evidence of the hospital staff and the symptoms of the patients.

eg - Did the neighbour say they had a infest of rats lately and she gave EP a container of ratsak to take care of the problem and EP mixed up that container with ..... insert idea. Tick this off the list move on. MOO

The problem is that hospital officials suspect death cap mushroom poisoning.