Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #3

[ch_13]

New twist in fatal mushroom lunch investigation

Experts have been called in to help detectives identify the toxin in a meal potentially laced with a deadly mushroom that killed three family members late last month.

www.skynews.com.au

I find this article rather curious.

Detectives from the Homicide Squad have taken a new step in the investigation to identify the toxin that killed three people who ingested a beef Wellington pie
...
Experts have been called in to help detectives identify the toxin in a meal potentially laced with a deadly mushroom that killed three family members late last month.
...
It is understood two mycologists from Melbourne's Royal Botanic Gardens will now assist in identifying the toxin, if any, that were in the dish, according to Herald Sun.

This makes it sound like engaging the mycologists from the Royal Botanic Gardens is a new development, but surely the police have been working with outside experts since day one. Law enforcement could hardly be keeping their own mycologists on staff just in case of a poisoning case.

I wonder if these two scientists have actually been working with the police since the start, and the real revelation is that for the first time the press has learned where they are from.

 

[bearbear]

the written statement seems slightly different to the spoken on tv this morning where they said "even if" it was death cap mushrooms, could just be my interpretation though, i was only half listening

 

[kittythehare]

Amanita phalloides poisoning and treatment with silibinin in the Australian Capital Territory and New South Wales

A review of clinical records of patients treated in Canberra and Sydney identified 10 patients who were likely to have suffered “deathcap” mushroom poisoning between 1999 and 2012. Despite treatment according to current standards, including use of the purported antidote silibinin, eight...

www.mja.com.au

 

[kittythehare]

the written statement seems slightly different to the spoken on tv this morning where they said "even if" it was death cap mushrooms, could just be my interpretation though, i was only half listening

Amanitins: The Most Poisonous Molecules of the Fungal World

Among the toxic metabolites of the fungal world, those that, due to their strong biological effect, can seriously (even fatally) damage the life processes of humans (and certain groups of animals) stand out. Amatoxin-containing mushrooms and the poisonings caused by them stand out from the...

www.mdpi.com

 

[DeDee]

I have been trying to work out why the dehydrator discussion with her children even happened.

"Mum, why do they think Grandma and Granddad were poisoned at our house?"
"I don't know, dear. Maybe something was on the dehydrator that poisoned the meal."

I have also looked to see if there is an innocent reason to use Death Cap toxin (maybe in gardening or something). That maybe EP dehydrated some in the past for an innocent reason.
But I am unable to find any legitimate use for the toxin.

Is it likely that the physicians attending the care of luncheon guests at the hospital realized their patients may be suffering from a poisoning? Thus, it was the Doctors who alerted the Police? If so, such evidence from their illnesses may have been preserved.

Children are wise and they're more observant than we sometimes give them credit for being. Maybe one of them blatantly asked, "Mum, why did you take our dehydrator to the tip since it was brand new?"

Erin had to be freaking out, at the time, over the fear of possibly losing everything over the tragedies. I imagine Simon was in a state of shock and awe over the dehydrator revelation, possibly weeping for his overwhelming losses.

Children are naturally loving and forgiving individuals. However, they do not easily forgive people who intentionally kill their loved ones, their grandparents. They must feel incredibly frightened.

According to RickShaw's timeline, Police searched her home the day after Don died or AUG 6. That's an entire week to secrete evidence, if need be.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/australia-3-dead-after-eating-wild-mushrooms-leongatha-victoria-aug-2023-3.688275/page-50#post-18493764
JMOO

 

[bearbear]

looking for possible other uses for dc mushrooms and all i could find was its always been used as a method to kill...

DEATHCAP(Amanita phalloides)​

Silent assassin and killer of kings.
The deathcap has been used as a murder weapon for millennia.
It grows in mixed woodland; make sure to stay away when foraging!

https://www.woodlandtrust.org.uk/trees-woods-and-wildlife/fungi-and-lichens/deathcap/#:~:text=The%20deathcap%20has%20been%20used,most%20parts%20of%20the%20UK.&text=It%20has%20broad%20gills%20which%20are%20pure%20white%20in%20colour.

 

[kittythehare]

looking for possible other uses for dc mushrooms and all i could find was its always been used as a method to kill...

DEATHCAP(Amanita phalloides)​

Silent assassin and killer of kings.
The deathcap has been used as a murder weapon for millennia.
It grows in mixed woodland; make sure to stay away when foraging!

https://www.woodlandtrust.org.uk/trees-woods-and-wildlife/fungi-and-lichens/deathcap/#:~:text=The%20deathcap%20has%20been%20used,most%20parts%20of%20the%20UK.&text=It%20has%20broad%20gills%20which%20are%20pure%20white%20in%20colour.

deathcap has not been officially confirmed.

 

[ch_13]

Is that an 86 on her shirt? Bizarre. From wikipedia:

Eighty-six or 86 is American English slang used to indicate that an item is no longer available, traditionally from a food or drinks establishment, or referring to a person or people who are not welcome in the premises. Its etymology is unknown but seems to have been coined in the 1920s or 1930s.

The term has been more generally used to mean getting rid of someone or something. In the 1970s, its meaning expanded to refer to murder.


As the article notes it's American slang, so the term—especially as it pertains to murder—may not be familiar to Australians. Still, it's an unfortunate choice.

 

[kittythehare]

View attachment 443705

Is that an 86 on her shirt? Bizarre. From wikipedia:

Eighty-six or 86 is American English slang used to indicate that an item is no longer available, traditionally from a food or drinks establishment, or referring to a person or people who are not welcome in the premises. Its etymology is unknown but seems to have been coined in the 1920s or 1930s.

The term has been more generally used to mean getting rid of someone or something. In the 1970s, its meaning expanded to refer to murder.


As the article notes it's American slang, so the term—especially as it pertains to murder—may not be familiar to Australians. Still, it's an unfortunate choice.

it's a fashion label, actually.
There you go

https://www.redbubble.com/shop/86+clothing

 

[ch_13]

it's a fashion label, actually.
There you go

https://www.redbubble.com/shop/86+clothing

Ah thanks. I was wondering why of all the numbers she was wearing that one.

I didn't think it meant anything, but I know the term from old mob movies, so her wearing that shirt really stuck out at me.

 

[DeDee]

View attachment 443705

Is that an 86 on her shirt? Bizarre. From wikipedia:

Eighty-six or 86 is American English slang used to indicate that an item is no longer available, traditionally from a food or drinks establishment, or referring to a person or people who are not welcome in the premises. Its etymology is unknown but seems to have been coined in the 1920s or 1930s.

The term has been more generally used to mean getting rid of someone or something. In the 1970s, its meaning expanded to refer to murder.


As the article notes it's American slang, so the term—especially as it pertains to murder—may not be familiar to Australians. Still, it's an unfortunate choice.

Ask George: Where Does the Term "86'd" Come From?​

Aug 16, 2019 · The term originated during the Korean war, a reference to the F-86 fighter jet; when an F-86 shot down an enemy plane, it was 86’d.

86 means to get rid of something, or someone or a restaurant could 86 an unruly patron; hence, eject or 86 them [from the restaurant].

 

[Charlot123]

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=TAWEB_WRE170_a_GGL&dest=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theaustralian.com.au%2Fnation%2Fpoisoning-suspect-erin-patterson-convicted-five-times-for-highspeed-drunken-rampage%2Fnews-story%2Fc3199f79afb93bc40f96f1295b290536&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium&v21=dynamic-high-test-score&V21spcbehaviour=appendend

can any subscribers give the details

Headline is: Poisoning Suspect Erin Patterson convicted Five times for high-speed drunken rampage
From The Australian

Here goes my favorite theory that she poisoned wine, lol! I am now in the "gravy camp".

 

[Charlot123]

For those who say why hire a lawyer if it was just a terrible mistake, these days there are no mistakes in anything, car accidents or whatever.

Even if it was just a terrible mistake, there could be charges of manslaughter.

Also like some other countries we're going the way of civil lawsuits.

There always has to be someone at fault, accident or not. No leeway is given these days.

The worst is always thought of someone in all cases.

I have a feeling when she first spoke to the press she didn't have a lawyer because she thought she didn't need one.

Ok another lie you say. I say it's a part of being human. How many of us have always told the literal truth especially at stressful times.

I think she did lie about having a lot of friends and I feel like she seems quite a private person.
I think the children may be her entire world and now she finds herself totally alone.

I don't see any of her family coming forward to support her in any way.

There was one person who said something in her defense but I don't think that's the line the press wants to go with.


Proving that it happened at the meal is a whole other thing.

Hopefully the mushroom experts can help in some way to determine if it was or if it wasn't mushrooms.

You can't just arrest someone because you don't like the way they acted while being grilled by the press, or they don't act the way you "think they should". Or whether you saw tears or not.

While I think that out of four guests invited, three being dead and the fourth struggling for his life, and the hostess/cook being unscathed is very suspicious, I don't believe we can judge by how the person presented at the interview.

I remember this story when in JBR case, BR was interviewed several years ago. Many found it suspicious when each time when asked about her murder, he'd smile. It is called pseudobulbar affect, when people want to smile and cry, or want to cry and laugh, vise versa. First described post-stroke, it is now tightly linked to traumatic encephalopathy, but even ADD can cause it.

IMHO, in the absence of facts, we can't base our opinion on the way they look or talk. It is another thing that in this case, very few facts are solid. Wishing Australian police good luck.

 

[LadyL]

It's the lying under pressure that interests me.

and the fleeing the scene - reveals her (lack of) character IMO

 

[SouthAussie]

I find this article rather curious.

Detectives from the Homicide Squad have taken a new step in the investigation to identify the toxin that killed three people who ingested a beef Wellington pie
...
Experts have been called in to help detectives identify the toxin in a meal potentially laced with a deadly mushroom that killed three family members late last month.
...
It is understood two mycologists from Melbourne's Royal Botanic Gardens will now assist in identifying the toxin, if any, that were in the dish, according to Herald Sun.

This makes it sound like engaging the mycologists from the Royal Botanic Gardens is a new development, but surely the police have been working with outside experts since day one. Law enforcement could hardly be keeping their own mycologists on staff just in case of a poisoning case.

I wonder if these two scientists have actually been working with the police since the start, and the real revelation is that for the first time the press has learned where they are from.

I think it is probable that someone is leaking a little to the media, now and again. Keeping the pressure on.

How else would the media know that RBG mycologists who have been asked to not speak with the media are helping to confirm the use of Death Cap mushrooms in this case.

Probably everything we hear is not a "new development" but is instead information that is able to be leaked to keep the profile of this case in the public eye for a while.

imo

 

[LadyL]

I wonder why the children were not sent to live with the father. Why would they send them to live with strangers instead of a trusted family member. It must be very traumatic for them. IMO.

how do you know they weren't? where were they sent?

 

[Kemug]

Here is daily mail not under a pay wall about her drunk driving escapade. 29 year old isn't exactly a teenager either.

"The charges included failing to stop a vehicle after an accident, failing to give a name or address after causing property damage, using an unregistered vehicle on a highway and failing to give her name or address when property was damaged."

Mushroom chef crashed car and fled the scene

Erin Patterson, 48, lost her licence for 30 months in 2004 and was fined $1,000 for crashing her vehicle in the eastern Melbourne suburb of Glen Waverley.

www.dailymail.co.uk

So this incident was in the public domain, and Simon's family likely knew about it. That is potentially one reason for disapproving of her, if they did.

 

[SouthAussie]

I wonder why the children were not sent to live with the father. Why would they send them to live with strangers instead of a trusted family member. It must be very traumatic for them. IMO.

I haven't been given the impression that the children are not living with their dad.

In fact, all I have read says nothing about where they are.


Police say those children have been removed from her care as a “precaution”. Link

The media is at the house where my children are at. Link


It would be unusual, I think, for EP to know where her children are, if they are with strangers. And kincare (family) is generally the very first option for removed children, if kincare is available.

Have I missed an MSM or official report somewhere that states that they are with strangers?

 

[jepop]

So this incident was in the public domain, and Simon's family likely knew about it. That is potentially one reason for disapproving of her.

It's in the public domain now that's for sure. Yes, it's info that could be found if you know where to dig and then dig for it. Could never be used in a prosecution of this case (if EP is ever charged and arrested ) on grounds of total irrelevance. Moo but - Imo any defense would make sure of that and rightly so, jmo. - So the info has no relevance other than the clicks it generates as the public gets to see EP dragged through the mud. This is all Moo.

 

[Kemug]

It's in the public domain now that's for sure. Yes, it's info that could be found if you know where to dig and then dig for it. Could never be used in a prosecution of this case (if EP is ever charged and arrested ) on grounds of total irrelevance. Moo but - Imo any defense would make sure of that and rightly so, jmo. - So the info has no relevance other than the clicks it generates as the public gets to see EP dragged through the mud. This is all Moo.

Oh I agree. But as EP or someone else apparently said, the in-laws didn't approve of her (or did one of us suggest that? Can't remember now.) But if that was so, then this incident is relevant to that. Not relevant to the deaths of course, but as a student of human nature, I just find it interesting.