Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #5 *Arrest*

[Lady Bug]

unless everyone agreed she stay away so it didnt become a media frenzy?

And the children may have been with her for the day.....

 

[SouthAussie]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts-victoria/monthslong-wait-for-lessons-in-chemistry-at-leongatha-library/news-story/914e782fd87afff50dbef5ff401580fd?amp

Behind paywall

I haven't read it, what happens involving death caps?

Just reading the article now.

Apparently, there is currently a waiting list of 61 people at the Leongatha Library, waiting to borrow the book Lessons in Chemistry by Bonnie Gamus. (Which according to the internet is a very popular fiction book about a chemist who winds up hosting a cooking show.)

The book has a section about poisoning people, the main character in the book says that there are much faster ways to kill loved ones, starting with mushrooms. If it was her, she would choose Death Cap mushrooms.
She says that not only does the toxin withstand high temps, making this mushroom a go-to item for a casserole, but the DC mushroom resembles the straw mushroom which is non-toxic.
If a person is caught, they could just claim innocence and say they mistook the type of mushroom.

 

[Rumination1]

Just reading the article now.

Apparently, there is currently a waiting list of 61 people at the Leongatha Library, waiting to borrow the book Lessons in Chemistry by Bonnie Gamus. (Which according to the internet is a very popular fiction book about a chemist who winds up hosting a cooking show.)

The book has a section about poisoning people, the main character in the book says that there are much faster ways to kill loved ones, starting with mushrooms. If it was her, she would choose Death Cap mushrooms.
She says that not only does the toxin withstand high temps, making this mushroom a go-to item for a casserole, but the DC mushroom resembles the straw mushroom which is non-toxic.
If a person is caught, they could just claim innocence and say they mistook the type of mushroom.

Thanks . I was about to type similar . I know there’s no reason to think she did it or she got the idea from fiction . I was merely pointing out the possibility

The truth of what happens needs evidence but What will that evidence be given the witness to the mesl serving is only Ian and possibly no witness to the cooking

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Re the book that people are waiting for.

This is sort of how something like an idea that has no base in reality grows legs.

Somehow I think that's the whole point.

 

[katydid23]

It prob wasn’t in the main dish … more likely the gravy much less cross contamination and easier disposal of smaller dishes and utensils. She made a nice dry BF which required gravy. (She had hers dry …)

I agree. It makes the most sense to me, to put the toxins in a sauce/gravy that could be ladled over the top of the entree.

I've seen it done that way in some of the recipes---it comes with either a mushroom gravy OR a beef au jus sauce. It wouldn't need to have any toxic mushrooms in it when it was served because if the mushrooms were boiled in the water and then thrown out that water would be lethal. It could be used in the sauce.

That way the Wellington leftovers can be handed over and there'd be no tell tale toxins, to put her in jail. The gravy can be flushed down the toilet days before anyone would come to investigate. JMO

 

[katydid23]

I have been wondering at what point they can do either of those things.

Say the tests on the dehydrator (and whatever other kitchen utensils they may have found at the dump) come back negative for poisonous mushrooms.
Say the tests on the kitchen surfaces come back negative for poisonous mushrooms.

Do they clear EP then?

I don't see how that alone could clear her. The kitchen surfaces can probably be easily cleaned well enough to come back negative. Maybe even the dehydrator was decontaminated. But that in itself doesn't completely clear anyone, imo.

 

[investikater]

I don't see how that alone could clear her. The kitchen surfaces can probably be easily cleaned well enough to come back negative. Maybe even the dehydrator was decontaminated. But that in itself doesn't completely clear anyone, imo.

What would be enough to clear her then?

 

[katydid23]

If pois statement is correct and ex asked if she used the dehydrator to poison them at the hospital, then at least ex thinks she is guilty (unless he set her up).

That doesn't mean she is though.

Originally, I wondered if her ex somehow framed her. But as time went on, I decided against that scenario.

He hasn't lived with her for quite sometime. They were basically estranged since his recovery from the mysterious illness because he thought she had poisoned him. So I don't see how he could have slipped poisonous mushrooms into her kitchen.

How would he know she was even going to cook a mushroom entree for the luncheon? And what about his children? That seems pretty risky to assume they wouldn't have been poisoned as well. It's hard to imagine her ex putting lethal food into her pantry from which the kids eat.

And did SP want his parents and his Aunt to be poisoned? I'm not sure I see a motive there.

 

[katydid23]

What would be enough to clear her then?

I think they will be interviewing the survivor. Hopefully he still has some memories from that lunch date. Did she eat her lunch? Did she serve gravy but not take any herself? What was her demeanour like?

And they'd be thoroughly looking at all of EP's digital communication platforms for the previous months. What was her communication with the victims like? And with her ex? What was the agenda for the lunch time negotiation?

What was she telling others about her feelings towards the divorce situation and her in-laws? Was there any conflict?

She says she had no motive---I think they will be looking to see if that is accurate. Was her ex asking for things she did not want to give him?

If they can prove that the 4 victims ate death caps, and if the only meal they shared together was at EP's home that afternoon, she will be heavily scrutinised. It will take more than squeaky clean kitchen counters and serving utensils to totally clear her from suspicion, imo.

 

[Ellery84]

I have been wondering at what point they can do either of those things.

Say the tests on the dehydrator (and whatever other kitchen utensils they may have found at the dump) come back negative for poisonous mushrooms.
Say the tests on the kitchen surfaces come back negative for poisonous mushrooms.

Do they clear EP then?

<modsnip - off topic>

It could be 1, 5 or 10 years until they clear Erin, if ever. I hope it doesn’t take 3 inquests, but justice is not often swift and it moves at its own pace.

All imo

And whist we’re here: Does anyone know the name of the homicide task force or strike force tasked with the investigation into the Leongatha mushroom deaths?

Is it Strike Force Patte? Or maybe task force Patterin? Or even Spatterserin? Just throwing a few suggestions up in the air. (All conjecture).

<modsnip - off topic>

@Couldbe @iiiii's

All jmo

Edit - what other kitchen utensils of Erin’s were found at the dump, @SouthAussie? I had only seen the food dehydrator reported in MSM.

 

[jjleroche]

If pois statement is correct and ex asked if she used the dehydrator to poison them at the hospital, then at least ex thinks she is guilty (unless he set her up).

That doesn't mean she is though.

Indeed.
IIRC, there had been reports previously, regarding Patterson family members other than EP also regularly foraging for mushrooms.

I've attached a link to a report which contains information originally sourced from a close friend of the Patterson family (perhaps Simon's friend who's prevously provided information to the press.) The friend states that Erin Patterson, ex-husband Simon, and other family members were regular mushroom foragers each year when they were in season. Although the story appears to lack objectivity IMO, and seems to infer culpablility of EP (ICBW) - "she was very good at it", what really jumps out at me is that the mushroom-foraging was a regular family "thing."

Given that no charges have been laid against EP thus far, with this information coming to light, IMO it is reasonable to consider that other possibilities may exist. This could include accidental poisoning by way of one of the victims bringing a meal contribution contining foraged mushrooms, among others IMO.

'Knew what to pick': Source's bombshell claim about mushroom cook

A new development in the case of the deadly mushroom poisoning that claimed three lives in Victoria has exposed the woman who cooked the lunch as an experience forager.

www.skynews.com.au

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Going back to many articles about picking mushrooms.

Even experts make mistakes.

And just because a person picks mushrooms regularly, that doesn't make them an expert.
I used to pick mushrooms and I didn't consider myself an expert, not even close and yes I had a book on my shelf about mushrooms. I glanced through it once.

Having owned a book about mushrooms and picking them regularly doesn't make you an expert.

Say a person went swimming regularly, that doesn't make them an expert on swimming.

Or someone who reads books isn't an expert on books.

 

[katydid23]

Going back to many articles about picking mushrooms.

Even experts make mistakes.

And just because a person picks mushrooms regularly, that doesn't make them an expert.
I used to pick mushrooms and I didn't consider myself an expert, not even close and yes I had a book on my shelf about mushrooms. I glanced through it once.

Having owned a book about mushrooms and picking them regularly doesn't make you an expert.

Say a person went swimming regularly, that doesn't make them an expert on swimming.

Or someone who reads books isn't an expert on books.

If she foraged for the mushrooms, I'd expect that she would have proudly told her lunch guests about that. People are saying she and her ex and the whole family enjoyed foraging for fresh mushrooms. I'd think it would be a topic of conversation as she was serving her beautiful entree.

If so, I'd think the victims would have told the investigators about the foraged mushrooms during the hospital interviews about the source of their illness.

EP has stated that she bought two types of mushrooms from 2 different stores. But no one else, besides her unlucky guests, have been reported as poison Death Cap victims. So the is probably not the truth.

If this was an innocent mistake and she picked the wrong ones, why not come clean and clear this up? I think she is waiting to see if she is going to be charged, and if so, she might say she accidentally picked the poison ones. JMO

 

[katydid23]

Indeed.
IIRC, there had been reports previously, regarding Patterson family members other than EP also regularly foraging for mushrooms.

I've attached a link to a report which contains information originally sourced from a close friend of the Patterson family (perhaps Simon's friend who's prevously provided information to the press.) The friend states that Erin Patterson, ex-husband Simon, and other family members were regular mushroom foragers each year when they were in season. Although the story appears to lack objectivity IMO, and seems to infer culpablility of EP (ICBW) - "she was very good at it", what really jumps out at me is that the mushroom-foraging was a regular family "thing."

Interesting. So are you implying she may have foraged for them and accidentally poisoned them? Or someone else did?

Given that no charges have been laid against EP thus far, with this information coming to light, IMO it is reasonable to consider that other possibilities may exist. This could include accidental poisoning by way of one of the victims bringing a meal contribution contining foraged mushrooms, among others IMO.

'Knew what to pick': Source's bombshell claim about mushroom cook

A new development in the case of the deadly mushroom poisoning that claimed three lives in Victoria has exposed the woman who cooked the lunch as an experience forager.

www.skynews.com.au

If one of the victims brought a mushroom dish, why wouldn't the accused suspect publicly say so? Wouldn't that lighten the public suspicion if she could substantiate that one of the guests brought a mushroom salad to lunch?

 

[jjleroche]

Originally, I wondered if her ex somehow framed her. But as time went on, I decided against that scenario.

He hasn't lived with her for quite sometime. They were basically estranged since his recovery from the mysterious illness because he thought she had poisoned him. So I don't see how he could have slipped poisonous mushrooms into her kitchen.

How would he know she was even going to cook a mushroom entree for the luncheon? And what about his children? That seems pretty risky to assume they wouldn't have been poisoned as well. It's hard to imagine her ex putting lethal food into her pantry from which the kids eat.

And did SP want his parents and his Aunt to be poisoned? I'm not sure I see a motive there.

katydid23 - I believe that there are credible reponses to the points which you have made, so I shall note them here, in the interests of maintaining critical thinking in this forum.
Please note however, that I am not suggesting that SP is responsible for the victims' deaths.
IMO in all likelihood, the deaths were accidental.

In response to the points which you made:

There have been questions in this forum regarding the veracity or otherwise of the "mysterious illness".
Some posters have pointed out that his stated symptoms do not resemble those of ingestion of death caps.

<modsnip - no link to stated post on this forum, nor to approved source>

He states that they were estranged because he had believed that EP had poisoned him. IMO the estrangement didn't occur for this reason. In previous threads, it was evident that they had already separated. EP had allegedly been pressured to care for him while he was ill, and didn't wish to, but eventually agreed to. (I have no idea who pressured EP - whether it was SP, or maybe SP's parents, or someone else. If anyone knows, please let us know.) TIA

Re how would SP know what was to be served for lunch, I believe there are several possibilities. Maybe EP was famous within the family for her Beef Wellingtons and it was her signature dish, or maybe he'd asked the kids what was on the menu, or even suggested it.
We don't know if SP had access to EP's house. Maybe he did - maybe he didn't. Maybe when he came to collect his kids for their regular visit with him, EP always ensured she wasnt home. We don't know. These are just thoughts which address your points.
He may have been aware that his children wouldn't be attending/wouldn't eat a mushroom meal, and perhaps he didn't plan to attend.

I'm not sure I see a motive here either. Some common motives are jealousy, revenge, anger and financial gain. (Maybe religion.)
I guess any/all of these could be possible. As to whether any of those motives are realistic, I have no idea.
We really know very little of the family dynamic between SP and his parents, and Aunt and Uncle as well as that of SP and his sibling(s). JMO

The above are just possibilities, not opinions.

 

[jjleroche]

Interesting. So are you implying she may have foraged for them and accidentally poisoned them? Or someone else did?


If one of the victims brought a mushroom dish, why wouldn't the accused suspect publicly say so? Wouldn't that lighten the public suspicion if she could substantiate that one of the guests brought a mushroom salad to lunch?

I'm not implying anything. The point I am making is that there are other possibilities which don't necessarily involve EP, and IMO it is useful to keep an open mind.

Regarding your second point, IMO she has been advised by her legal people to avoid saying anything at all to the media. If the above scenario had occurred, IMO she would have discussed it with investigators, but they certainly wouldn't be releasing that information to the public at this point. JMO

 

[Charlot123]

katydid23 - I believe that there are credible reponses to the points which you have made, so I shall note them here, in the interests of maintaining critical thinking in this forum.
Please note however, that I am not suggesting that SP is responsible for the victims' deaths.
IMO in all likelihood, the deaths were accidental.

In response to the points which you made:

There have been questions in this forum regarding the veracity or otherwise of the "mysterious illness".
Some posters have pointed out that his stated symptoms do not resemble those of ingestion of death caps.

<modsnip - no link to stated post on this forum, nor to approved source>

He states that they were estranged because he had believed that EP had poisoned him. IMO the estrangement didn't occur for this reason. In previous threads, it was evident that they had already separated. EP had allegedly been pressured to care for him while he was ill, and didn't wish to, but eventually agreed to. (I have no idea who pressured EP - whether it was SP, or maybe SP's parents, or someone else. If anyone knows, please let us know.) TIA

Re how would SP know what was to be served for lunch, I believe there are several possibilities. Maybe EP was famous within the family for her Beef Wellingtons and it was her signature dish, or maybe he'd asked the kids what was on the menu, or even suggested it.
We don't know if SP had access to EP's house. Maybe he did - maybe he didn't. Maybe when he came to collect his kids for their regular visit with him, EP always ensured she wasnt home. We don't know. These are just thoughts which address your points.
He may have been aware that his children wouldn't be attending/wouldn't eat a mushroom meal, and perhaps he didn't plan to attend.

I'm not sure I see a motive here either. Some common motives are jealousy, revenge, anger and financial gain. (Maybe religion.)
I guess any/all of these could be possible. As to whether any of those motives are realistic, I have no idea.
We really know very little of the family dynamic between SP and his parents, and Aunt and Uncle as well as that of SP and his sibling(s). JMO

The above are just possibilities, not opinions.

Intestinal parasites from a safari in Africa is a plausible explanation for SP’s illness. JMO. He had that severe infection and later mentioned residual weakness in one arm. It is an unusual symptom if we are thinking about a bowel problem. He could have had a micro-stroke while in ICU, of course. However, trichinosis, for example, is characterized, among other symptoms, by parasites lodging in the muscles. We think of it as “pig-borne disease”, but in fact, many other animals, including bears and hyenas, can transmit it.

<modsnip - quoted post was snipped for no link>

Can’t comment about the rest, but from what we know now, I can’t see an obvious link between SP’s illness and EP.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

What would be enough to clear her then?

More to the point, what would it take to charge her?

As she's innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, then she doesn't need to be cleared, she needs to be charged (if guilty).

If the kitchen equipment, utensils and food scraps and dehydrator all come back with no trace of DC mushroom DNA and EP maintains innocence, it would have to be proven that the four didn't eat any other food in common anywhere else and that there is no other party who wishes to maliciously harm them, or accidentally harmed them, or played a prank that went wrong - really really hard to prove IMO.

 

[Ellery84]

A friend pointed out she might have read “lessons in chemistry “ a fiction book where a character talks about cooking death cap mushrooms

I wonder if the homicide squad have been through the public library records at Leongatha….

 

[Ellery84]

then at least ex thinks she is guilty (unless he set her up).

That doesn't mean she is though.

He might think she was guilty, or he might just despise her and blame her for everything, generally.

Some exes can be like that.

Jmo