Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #7 *Arrest*

[Detechtive]

On the other hand, SP had come close to death before, so you'd hope he'd have a clue by then. He's an engineer so he ought to have some sense of logic.

As I said earlier, were I in his place the police would have been involved quick smart, long ago (and all of these deaths may have been avoided).

I don't think you're trying to blame Simon, but it comes off that way.
Domestic violence sufferers who are gaslighted and manipulated often doubt their own perceptions. It is why it's so pervasive and dangerous.

I think Simon was a victim of DV. "Why didn't he leave and...." - because he didn't feel like he could. In my opinion.

 

[JBowie]

I don't think you're trying to blame Simon, but it comes off that way.
Domestic violence sufferers who are gaslighted and manipulated often doubt their own perceptions. It is why it's so pervasive and dangerous.

I think Simon was a victim of DV. "Why didn't he leave and...." - because he didn't feel like he could. In my opinion.

No, not blaming him at all, just speculating on what might have been had he gone to police earlier. I sure would have after nearly dying, but I am not SP.

It seems that he put up with EP's tantrums, manipulation, etc, for quite a long time, I guess for the sake of the children.

 

[Detechtive]

No, not blaming him at all, just speculating on what might have been had he gone to police earlier. I sure would have after nearly dying, but I am not SP.

It seems that he put up with EP's tantrums, manipulation, etc, for quite a long time, I guess for the sake of the children.

Poisoning is covert and quite passive aggressive. I wouldn't blame anyone for having doubts about whether it's happening. By its nature, it is chosen to be covert.

 

[JBowie]

Poisoning is covert and quite passive aggressive. I wouldn't blame anyone for having doubts about whether it's happening. By its nature, it is chosen to be covert.

Yes, and often done by degrees, in small quantities with a toxin that accumulates. However, being hospitalized each time after three meals is a bell-ringer, especially when the last time involved being in an induced coma for 16 days.

 

[Salah11]

No, not blaming him at all, just speculating on what might have been had he gone to police earlier. I sure would have after nearly dying, but I am not SP.

It seems that he put up with EP's tantrums, manipulation, etc, for quite a long time, I guess for the sake of the children.

Llet’s not forget the the 2 million she had. She was giving out cash free loans to his siblings to buy property. That kind of wealth would make a lot of people more tolerate.

It will be interesting to see what angle the defense take with him as at the moment it’s hard to fathom how they are going to convince people it was a terrible accident.


Mooo

 

[JBowie]

Llet’s not forget the the 2 million she had. She was giving out cash free loans to his siblings to buy property. That kind of wealth would make a lot of people more tolerate. IMO MOOO

Somehow I don't get the impression that SP is motivated by money. I think any such inclination would show through in his actions, such as arguing about property. (That may have happened, but I don't think it's come out in the evidence to date, unless I've missed it.)

I do think he was trying to keep his family together, for the sake of his kids, as best he could under the strained circumstances, as opposed to simply divorcing her and leaving the area.

 

[al66pine]

@ellery WINS *****POST OF THE DAY***** A SHORT LOL BREAK.

Erin seems to have allegedly hurt a lot of people for no very good reason. <Not that there would ever be a good reason to harm another human of course>

It’s a long bow to draw, and the relationship connections as part of the motive seem to be very complex. I think motive would have been one of the more difficult aspects of the case that the Prosecution team to deal with, which is maybe why they’ve just not delved into “motive.”

So let’s say her prime target was Simon. A marriage relationship is likely to hold some big feelings for Erin. So let’s say she wants to kill him and he’s so rude as to not even turn up to his own murder.

Let’s say Erin is originally mad at Simon over perceived rejection of her marriage and lack of financial support of the kids …. Simon doesn’t turn up to the lunch, she plans to and then she allegedly kills his parents.

She is also upset at Simon’s parents, as she feels they’re not supporting her enough after the separation, and so she also invites Ian and Heather to lunch, kills Heather and attempts to kill Ian.

None of this makes sense.

Then I think of all of the news reports about Erin being in a Kelli Lane crime group and then splinter groups. How big a part of her life were those groups and how involved was she with her online contacts from those groups?

Was she somehow infatuated with Kelli lane as a murderer and wanting to pull off something inspired by her?

What am I missing? And the most important question - who really is Erin Patterson?

@Ellery84 Thankk you very much for your post.
Snipping to quote:

".... she wants to kill him and he’s so rude as to not even turn up to his own murder."

@Ellery84 Good point.
Yes, some ppl have no consideration at all at for others, not even their estranged wives. /sarc

And now back to the trial.

 

[Salah11]

Somehow I don't get the impression that SP is motivated by money. I think any such inclination would show through in his actions, such as arguing about property. (That may have happened, but I don't think it's come out in the evidence to date, unless I've missed it.)

I do think he was trying to keep his family together, for the sake of his kids, as best he could under the strained circumstances, as opposed to simply divorcing her and leaving the area.

The defence haven’t had their chance to grill him yet. There are two sides to this marriage, and we are getting a whitewashed version so far naturally from the prosecution. We were lead to believe she tried to poison Simon 3 times previously so there has to be a hell of a lot of resentment from somewhere. IMO

 

[Detechtive]

The defence haven’t had their chance to grill him yet. There are two sides to this marriage, and we are getting a whitewashed version so far naturally from the prosecution. We were lead to believe she tried to poison Simon 3 times previously so there has to be a hell of a lot of resentment from somewhere. IMO

The defence grilled him all day.

There really doesn't need to be resentment in order to kill someone. Many unhealthy individuals do it from a lack of control, anger, jealousy, or sometimes for no reason at all - people snap, people have bad days, people have bad impulse control, people were in a bad mood, and the list goes on and on and on. The reason why is completely irrelevant to her guilt or non guilt.

 

[Bats]

Llet’s not forget the the 2 million she had. She was giving out cash free loans to his siblings to buy property. That kind of wealth would make a lot of people more tolerate.

It will be interesting to see what angle the defense take with him as at the moment it’s hard to fathom how they are going to convince people it was a terrible accident.


Mooo

Huh?
Simon’s not the one on trial.

It will be the prosecution that need to prove Erin is guilty.
The defence literally don't have to do, say or convince anyone of anything.

 

[Montrealaise]

I think there HAD to be a separate Wellington without Death Caps because LE tested the leftovers found in EP's bin----and there were no toxins found.

So that means to me that she made a separate Wellington for her and the kids. And the leftovers that LE picked up must have been from the kid's portion of the meal. IMO

We know there was traces of Death Cap on the dehydrator. And both male victims had traces in their urine. So some of the meals were toxic. But not all of them.

To me that means it was not accidental. IMO

Instead of using one large fillet of beef for the dish and slicing it into into individual portions - the way Beef Wellington is usually made - she used small, individual fillets for each person. Then she used Death Cap mushroom for some but not for the others, and then all she had to do was keep track of who got what, which she made easier for herself by using different plates.

 

[Salah11]

The defence grilled him all day.

There really doesn't need to be resentment in order to kill someone. Many unhealthy individuals do it from a lack of control, anger, jealousy, or sometimes for no reason at all. The reason why is completely irrelevant to her guilt or non guilt.

Thank you I stand corrected - the articles I read today didn’t mention who was questioning him

Well so far from the texts we have seen there is anger and resentment. The Birthday invite she blew up above it and felt slighted and hurt and lashed out. Her motivation seems to have been to punish Simon in the worse way imaginable.

 

[Montrealaise]

Yes, and often done by degrees, in small quantities with a toxin that accumulates. However, being hospitalized each time after three meals is a bell-ringer, especially when the last time involved being in an induced coma for 16 days.

She was initially charged with three counts of attempted murder relating to her husband's mysterious illnesses, on top of the three counts of murder and one count of attempted murder of her in-laws. The prosecutor withdrew the first three charges and I don't understand why.

 

[Salah11]

Can we speak about the alleged poisoning against Simon now the charges have been dropped?

I have been guilty of this as well on here but I suddenly realized that maybe we should’t if of all charges have been dropped.

 

[JBowie]

She was initially charged with three counts of attempted murder relating to her husband's mysterious illnesses, on top of the three counts of murder and one count of attempted murder of her in-laws. The prosecutor withdrew the first three charges and I don't understand why.

Yes, we have wondered about that. As I said earlier, we don't know if the charges were withdrawn with or without prejudice (in the latter case they can be brought again, if necessary).

I am now thinking that the Prosecution probably felt it had a stronger case against EP for the 3 deaths given that the forensic evidence gathered was comparatively fresh compared to little (or none at all ?) in the case of Simon given the time that has passed in his case.

 

[JBowie]

During his first day in front of the jury, Simon Patterson sat on an office chair a few metres away from his wife in the dock who spent large parts of the hearing staring intently at him and at times was seen shaking her head. [bbm]

I'm thinking: "Look at me when you are talking about me!"

‘I’ve spent a small fortune on beef Wellingtons’: Erin Patterson’s texts revealed

The accused killer mushroom cook urged her estranged husband to attend the fateful lunch because she’d spent “a small fortune” on eye fillet steak.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Spectrix]

She was initially charged with three counts of attempted murder relating to her husband's mysterious illnesses, on top of the three counts of murder and one count of attempted murder of her in-laws. The prosecutor withdrew the first three charges and I don't understand why.

I suspect it may be because of lack of evidence.
Let's say hypothetically that SP had ingested small quantities of dried/powdered Death Caps that had been added to his food, on three different occasions.
He experienced diarrhoea and vomiting (consistent with Death Cap ingestion, but also also consistent with food poisoning)

It's unlikely that he was tested for that particular toxin ("α-Amanitin" the toxin found in Death Caps), and the illnesses were recorded as causes unknown/ possible food poisoning.

Months/years later, can it be proven? Perhaps if there were biopsies done, and the samples still existed.
But isn't it also possible that he was poisoned by a different substance?

 

[Megnut]

The defence haven’t had their chance to grill him yet. There are two sides to this marriage, and we are getting a whitewashed version so far naturally from the prosecution. We were lead to believe she tried to poison Simon 3 times previously so there has to be a hell of a lot of resentment from somewhere. IMO

Irony:

He painted a rather merciful picture of both her and their marriage. Which really only days now sir him and less about her. He's trusting, IMO he's been groomed. Probably has been trying for the entire course of their marriage to avoid, reduce conflict for the sake of the marriage, keeping the peace, really unaware how terribly dysfunctional it was. You can't reason with a narcissist, try though one might.

Even if the defense successfully painted a clearer picture of tension in the marriage, frankly it would better highlight motive. Didn't want to live with him, didn't want him to live without her. Oldest relationship motive on the books, except the genders are frequently switched.

When he didn't come to lunch, she switched it up. From hiding one murder among many deaths to sticking with the many murders because, without him there, they'd no discernable motive (which is exactly how it's playing), but there is. It was calculated or she would have called it off, rescheduled it. In the new math, why would she kill off a bunch of people with whom she doesn't have deadly disagreement and even some she seemed to genuinely like? Looks motiveless. But what a way to stir up sympathy. IMO she intended to present with matching symptoms, just from a nontoxic cause. Had all of her guests perished, she might have been the "miraculous survivor" treated for nausea and dehydration and oh the story she'd tell. Surely he'd stay by her side for that.

She'd live to become a widow some other day, some other way.

JMO

 

[JBowie]

Had all of her guests perished, she might have been the "miraculous survivor" treated for nausea and dehydration and oh the story she'd tell. Surely he'd stay by her side for that.

That might have been the case if not for Simon's own experience with hospitalization and near death following her meals. As we know, he finally became suspicious and went to the police.

The other aspect is that tests conducted by the hospitals fairly quickly showed indications of death cap poisoning so there would have been an investigation as to how that could have occurred.

 

[Megnut]

She was initially charged with three counts of attempted murder relating to her husband's mysterious illnesses, on top of the three counts of murder and one count of attempted murder of her in-laws. The prosecutor withdrew the first three charges and I don't understand why.

Yes, we have wondered about that. As I said earlier, we don't know if the charges were withdrawn with or without prejudice (in the latter case they can be brought again, if necessary).

I am now thinking that the Prosecution probably felt it had a stronger case against EP for the 3 deaths given that the forensic evidence gathered was comparatively fresh compared to little (or none at all ?) in the case of Simon given the time that has passed in his case.

Perhaps it's strategic. If she's found guilty of lesser charges, they can recharge on the other counts, and secure a heavier sentence perhaps.

Maybe?

JMO