Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #7 *Arrest*

[JBowie]

If that is the case it is honestly a miracle that Simon is still alive, and Ian also.

On the other hand, SP had come close to death before, so you'd hope he'd have a clue by then. He's an engineer so he ought to have some sense of logic.

As I said earlier, were I in his place the police would have been involved quick smart, long ago (and all of these deaths may have been avoided).

 

[Ellery84]

Does anyone remember the strange lacerations on Erin’s fingers and nail bed spotted in a photograph 9 days after the lunch event?

Eerie detail in photo of mushroom cook that no one noticed until now

A strange detail on mushroom chef Erin Patterson's hands shows two injuries to the middle finger of her right hand, a cut below the knuckle and an abrasion on the finger's nail bed.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I wonder what these lacerations or cuts could have been from?

 

[katydid23]

To me the question now is did she set out to kill them or did she want to make them sick? But there was an intent to harm IMO.

It would be very hard to convince the jury she didn't set out to kill. She used something called DEATH CAPS, one of the deadliest toxins known to man.

If you want to just make someone sick, aren't there less lethal options?

 

[Bats]

To me it looks like the defence is attempting to throw some mud Simon’s way and hoping that it sticks. Maybe trying to garner some sympathy for Erin from the jury?

But there are 10 men on the 15 person jury, so really, who’s going to be so outraged by the child support figure that they will find her not guilty of murder?

It seems like the defence don’t have much and they are reaching.

IMO

I think what may be happening is...

The prosecution have said they're not suggesting a motive. They don't have to. But as someone said earlier in the thread, it's only natural for people to try to work out what the motive is, which is fine.

The defence are therefore trying to burn all possible motives. Because they know the jury will want to try to understand and reconcile the "why", even when they really don't need to. If the defence can put road blocks in front of all the possible motives, the jury may struggle to see the forest through the trees.

Simon not paying much child support, for some people's minds, may have been a reason for Erin to get really annoyed, but the defence have painted that issue to be fairly trivial, as seems to be your opinion above. There's a road block to a possible motive.

The defence will be working on the jury very cleverly and slowly. There's no need for them to hurry.

 

[drsleuth]

I wonder if her intent wasn't to actually to kill them, but rather to make them very sick ( like she had with Simon ) She was loosing control. Simon wasn't being a yes man anymore.

Maybe thinking she can than weasle her way back in as a carer of sorts, that Simon would think what a wonderful person she is being & that they'd be a happy family after all.??? She never thought that their illness would be investigated ( it hadn't been 3 times before?_)

I can't wait to hear the psychiatrist/s reports & hear from the medical people who treated her.


All MO

 

[SouthAussie]

On the other hand, SP had come close to death before, so you'd hope he'd have a clue by then. He's an engineer so he ought to have some sense of logic.

As I said earlier, were I in his place the police would have been involved quick smart, long ago.

I definitely think the police got involved quickly this time. Maybe due to Simon informing them of his suspicions. After his own terrible ordeal the year before.

He had made the comment to EP in the hospital (about the dehydrator) "is that what you used to poison them?"

His aunt commented to Simon about the different plate. His uncle told a doctor about the different plate.

Suspicions ran high ... this time.

 

[Ellery84]

Could someone please remind me of the age of the children at the time of the lunch?

Ok I am trying to remember - I think 7 and 10 years of age respectively, with male child being older and female child being younger. IMO

 

[Salah11]

It would be very hard to convince the jury she didn't set out to kill. She used something called DEATH CAPS, one of the deadliest toxins known to man.

If you want to just make someone sick, aren't there less lethal options?

Yep and she was on Facebook groups?

She watched Don (somebody please tell me if I have the wrong person) eat his own potion and then half of his wife’s knowing how toxic it was. If she had any kind of remorse, surely she would have stepped in and told him to not get too full as there was dessert on the way. But she actively sat there watching them eat poison. IMO

 

[Porky1]

You

Erin seems to have allegedly hurt a lot of people for no very good reason. <Not that there would ever be a good reason to harm another human of course>

It’s a long bow to draw, and the relationship connections as part of the motive seem to be very complex. I think motive would have been one of the more difficult aspects of the case that the Prosecution team to deal with, which is maybe why they’ve just not delved into “motive.”

So let’s say her prime target was Simon. A marriage relationship is likely to hold some big feelings for Erin. So let’s say she wants to kill him and he’s so rude as to not even turn up to his own murder.

Let’s say Erin is originally mad at Simon over perceived rejection of her marriage and lack of financial support of the kids …. Simon doesn’t turn up to the lunch, she plans to and then she allegedly kills his parents.

She is also upset at Simon’s parents, as she feels they’re not supporting her enough after the separation, and so she also invites Ian and Heather to lunch, kills Heather and attempts to kill Ian.

None of this makes sense.

Then I think of all of the news reports about Erin being in a Kelli Lane crime group and then splinter groups. How big a part of her life were those groups and how involved was she with her online contacts from those groups?

Was she somehow infatuated with Kelli lane as a murderer and wanting to pull off something inspired by her?

What am I missing? And the most important question - who really is Erin Patterson?

You had me until you raised the Kellie Lane group. We are in a true crime chat right now.

 

[katydid23]

She lost custody of the kids before she got arrested and after the lunch. AFAIK they were taken into care before she was arrested. For their safety.

Right, but the doctors asked that the kids be brought to the hospital on day one---before they had even started trading EP. They were in school and the doctor wanted Simon to go pick them up and bring them in for preventative liver treatment and Mom said No.[ At first]

 

[katydid23]

Yep and she was on Facebook groups?

She watched Don (somebody please tell me if I have the wrong person) eat his own potion and then half of his wife’s knowing how toxic it was. If she had any kind of remorse, surely she would have stepped in and told him to not get too full as there was dessert on the way. But she actively sat there watching them eat poison. IMO

Yes, and then after dinner, after she watched all 4 of them eat the poison, she let them pray for her to be healed from cancer----which she didn't even have.

But she sits there and let's them spend their last healthy hours praying for her, after she just fed them a lethal meal.

 

[drsleuth]

Erin Patterson's lawyer tells jury mushroom poisoning deaths were 'a terrible accident' — as it happened

A Supreme Court jury hears opening submissions in the trial of Victorian woman Erin Patterson, who is accused of using a poisoned meal to murder three relatives. Look back at how it unfolded on our live blog.

www.abc.net.au

Just noticed this bit which I hadn't noticed before

Continuing from where we left off before lunch, Ms Patterson was transported to Monash Medical Centre, and was tested further by doctors.

Doctors at Monash found that Ms Patterson was clinically well and showed no signs of poisoning, crown prosecutor Nanette Rogers SC says.

Child protection workers visited the hospital and judged that Ms Patterson’s children could remain with her, and she was discharged.

BBM

 

[Ellery84]

Right, but the doctors asked that the kids be brought to the hospital on day one---before they had even started trading EP. They were in school and the doctor wanted Simon to go pick them up and bring them in for preventative liver treatment and Mom said No.[ At first]

That’s right.
It’s not a very “protective behaviour” as a parent to try to stop your children getting medical treatment, especially when she said they had eaten the same lunch as those who had become horribly ill.

Child safety would have been looking at Erin being “willing and able” to protect her children.

IMO

 

[Scooby-Doo]

It could have been hard for her to take when she had been helping her husband financially, and generously buying houses for his extended family.

She also lent hundreds of thousands of dollars to his siblings, without interest, with flexible repayment requirements.

And his name was kept on all the titles since the separation

By doing so, it was suggested that Patterson, in essence, shared her inheritance with him (due to the financial benefit of being listed on a property title).

Despite the couple being separated, Patterson included her estranged husband’s name on both house titles as a gesture of ‘’good will” as they were still open to reconciling

And then the shock comes when she notices her husband has put down 'separated' on his tax return for the first time, and the impact that may have on their tax arrangements.

All this wouldn't have made her happy, she probably felt used, like a money pit

Money/finance would be important to her
They had normal incomes, any extras would come from her inheritance, $2 million around 2006.

He also stopped contributing to things like school and medical expenses for his children “on the advice of Centrelink” and on the separation was listed, he was required to pay child support for the sum of $40 per month…

Patterson received more inheritance money when her mother passed away in 2019.



*The court heard Patterson used the money to buy two more properties - a Mount Waverley apartment, in Melbourne, and the Gibson Street home in Leongatha (where she held the 2023 lunch).

Patterson told him the move would impact the family tax benefit the couple had previously enjoyed, and she was obliged to now claim child support.

'She was upset about it,' Simon said.

On July 16, during a church service, Patterson allegedly asked her in-laws over for lunch, the court heard previously.

She also asked Simon to attend, despite the couple's relationship being on the decline.

* Erin Patterson grew up in the Melbourne suburb of Glen Waverley with her sister Ceinwen, and parents Heather and Eitan.

Her father was a government worker and her mother Dr Heather Scutter became a Monash University lecturer in 19th century adult literature and a renowned children's book critic and author of articles and reviews on children's literature.

Erin married Gippsland engineer and basketball coach Simon Patterson, and the couple had two children.

The Pattersons moved to Western Australia for a time and ran a book shop in a southwestern town before returning to country Victoria.

Erin took over the running of the Burra Flyer, the local newsletter previously edited by Don and Gail Patterson in their hometown of Korumburra.

Simon Patterson, a talented amateur photographer who travelled to Africa and other overseas countries to pursue his craft, regularly contributed to the publication.

Erin became a stay-at-home mother as her children grew up, although it has since been alleged she looked down on contributors from her local community to the newsletter.

One poster to the forum, since deactivated, claimed Erin had worked as an accountant and with the Department of Defence, stating 'she's meticulous and very smart, her whole family are extremely smart people.'

Erin Patterson and her sister Ceinwen Scutter inherited the million dollar Eden property and reportedly enough money for plum property investments which made Erin independently wealthy.

One of Erin's friends, who contributed to the online forum discussion about her in the wake of the lunch, disputed reports that Erin had been keen to get back together with her deeply religious husband.

Instead, it was claimed, Erin had initiated the split.

'She's an atheist as far as I know ... she was very unhappy in her marriage and felt like a single parent (with) "my husband isn't pulling his weight" type commentary,' the friend stated.

'We didn't hear much about Simon other than he was never at home. Never helping her. She was very close about this ... She left him. She didn't want to get back with him. '

‘Friction’ over Erin Patterson’s $40-a-month child support payments

The mother is accused of killing three people with poisonous death cap mushrooms.

7news.com.au

How Erin Patterson's life of wealth fell apart before mushroom lunch

Wealthy mother-of-two Erin Patterson is in custody after her privileged life unravelled when her marriage collapsed and she allegedly served a fatal mushroom lunch.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Ellery84]

Erin Patterson's lawyer tells jury mushroom poisoning deaths were 'a terrible accident' — as it happened

A Supreme Court jury hears opening submissions in the trial of Victorian woman Erin Patterson, who is accused of using a poisoned meal to murder three relatives. Look back at how it unfolded on our live blog.

www.abc.net.au

Just noticed this bit which I hadn't noticed before

Continuing from where we left off before lunch, Ms Patterson was transported to Monash Medical Centre, and was tested further by doctors.

Doctors at Monash found that Ms Patterson was clinically well and showed no signs of poisoning, crown prosecutor Nanette Rogers SC says.

Child protection workers visited the hospital and judged that Ms Patterson’s children could remain with her, and she was discharged.

BBM

Very interesting.

I think as police named Erin as a suspect in a mass murder, child safety stepped in around this time and implemented more protection for the children. IMO

 

[Ellery84]

Yes, and then after dinner, after she watched all 4 of them eat the poison, she let them pray for her to be healed from cancer----which she didn't even have.

But she sits there and let's them spend their last healthy hours praying for her, after she just fed them a lethal meal.

That’s right, and according to Simon, at no point in the days after the lunch does she ask him about the wellbeing of those people.

 

[Megnut]

Insight

To my knowledge, nobody here has been diagnosed so this is just a general observation.

Narcissism is pervasive. It's not insanity, it's coherent. It's a personality disorder.

In this context, if a person who has NPD and toxic NPD at that, used a toxin which killed multiple people, due to the disorder, that person by their very nature might still demand less attention to the loss of the deceased and more attention to their own dramatic suffering, from a toxin they never even ingested. That's why it's a disorder. It's utterly disordered.

To highlight a story from this case -- the 70th birthday party. All focus should be on the 70 year old, right? 70 years, a big deal in families. But some people need it to be all about them. A missed invite? Even if it was an intentional slight, big people out it aside. 70 only happens once. If it's truly injurious, raise it in private, outside of the party, but by all means, attend. You're celebrating 70 years, not one event (not being invited, which could well be a misunderstanding or oversight). Erin made it about her. Her feelings of being slighted (with zero actual proof of it) was GREATER than any feelings she would hurt by not going, by blowing up a minor infraction which is more likely to be NO infraction -- it was probably understood to be an open invitation). She's a drama stirrer. Like she's the control tower and she vinyls all the planes.

Exhausting to be married to.

JMO

 

[drsleuth]

Very interesting.

I think as police named Erin as a suspect in a mass murder, child safety stepped in around this time and implemented more protection for the children. IMO

Yep I'd say CPS were called by the ER Dr when she refused to bring the children initially

 

[JBowie]

I definitely think the police got involved quickly this time. Maybe due to Simon informing them of his suspicions. After his own terrible ordeal the year before.

He had made the comment to EP in the hospital (about the dehydrator) "is that what you used to poison them?"

His aunt commented to Simon about the different plate. His uncle told a doctor about the different plate.

Suspicions ran high ... this time.

Too late though. Had he acted a year earlier then all of these deaths may have been avoided.

Had EP been interviewed by police a year earlier, then my suggestion is that she would have been in no position to stage the Last Supper à la Mushroom.

I expect that has occurred to him, too.

 

[Detechtive]

I wonder if her intent wasn't to actually to kill them, but rather to make them very sick ( like she had with Simon ) She was loosing control. Simon wasn't being a yes man anymore.

Maybe thinking she can than weasle her way back in as a carer of sorts, that Simon would think what a wonderful person she is being & that they'd be a happy family after all.??? She never thought that their illness would be investigated ( it hadn't been 3 times before?_)

I can't wait to hear the psychiatrist/s reports & hear from the medical people who treated her.


All MO

Even if that is the case, she is still guilty of murder. The jury only need to find that she deliberately intended to cause serious harm, that resulted in death - to find her guilty.

Additionally, her *lack* of intervention when the people were rapidly deteriorating, by hiding, lying evading and obstructing justice is abhorrent in itself. Failing to render aide because of a self interest heirachy is disgusting.