GUILTY Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 *Arrest* #17

[SilentHill]

When I read back over some of her evidence it’s just one lie after another

Erin Patterson felt 'scared', 'responsible' after questions over lunch

Erin Patterson has detailed to a jury how foraged mushrooms may have ended up in a beef Wellington dish that killed three relatives and made another seriously ill.

www.abc.net.au

Also this doesn’t ring true ( not that it ever did) but something that strikes me as strange.

We have all been teenagers and I think it’s safe to say the majority of teenagers if your mum went and pooed herself in the bush wouldn’t let you live in down. Just imagine the ribbing when she got back to the car and yet there was none of that. This is a teenage boy we are talking about here.

It just doesn’t ring true IMO

Agree with this. I've also thought that even if she somehow managed to stealth it without their knowledge, her testimony regarding scooping it/putting tissues in a dog bag and carrying it with her means there's no way it wouldn't have stunk the car out. It's violent diarrhea apparently induced by poisoning fgs. JMO

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

Is there an explanation how the dried DC mushrooms then turned to powder?

She had said in FB she "powdered" mushrooms to hide in her kids' food. So she knew how to hide them in food.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

I wonder how poor Simon is feeling right now?

 

[Detechtive]

I don't there is. A mortar and pestle (whilst more work) is a cheaper and easier item to get rid of post powdering. Maybe a cheap blender, only used once and dumped? If a Thermomix was used, could all of the parts be scrubbed wearing gloves, then run through the dishwasher to avoid contamination?
MOO

I'm with you - I can't see her using her expensive Thermomix - some sort of cheap hand held blender, IMO. Those stick blenders are $10 from Kmart.

 

[Detechtive]

I just looked on Amazon and you can get a small electric blender for $11

 

[Detechtive]

Agree with this. I've also thought that even if she somehow managed to stealth it without their knowledge, her testimony regarding scooping it/putting tissues in a dog bag and carrying it with her means there's no way it wouldn't have stunk the car out. It's violent diarrhea apparently induced by poisoning fgs. JMO

Have you seen how small those doggy dodo bags are? She must have impeccable aim! IMO

 

[Porky1]

I don’t know Law in Australia so if she is found not guilty can the family still do a civil case?

I mean she has admitted she lied and perverted the course of justice so surely there should be repercussions!

Thankfully we don’t have a litigious culture. Surely the family wouldn’t want to take the money from her children,

 

[SouthAussie]

(RSBM) SHE THOUGHT SHE HAD PUT STORE BOUGHT MUSHROOMS IN THE DISH, NOT FORAGED ONES. THAT IS HER TESTIMONY


THAT IS NOT HER TESTIMONY. TO HER KNOWLEDGE SHE WAS USING STORE BOUGHT MUSHROOMS


THAT IS NOT HER TESTIMONY AND AGAIN, THE JURY SHOULD REACH A NOT GUILTY VERDICT IN THAT CASE

I think it is all going to come down to Erin's own credibility in her testimony. Because the proof (from many others) is there. imo


Dr Rogers told the jury Ms Patterson was "not a credible witness" and significant parts of the defence case that rested solely on her evidence should be closely scrutinised. Link

Beale turns to the “good character” evidence in the case.
He says if the jury accepts Patterson is of good character they can use it to assess her credibility. Link

Justice Beale said jurors could use alleged incriminating conduct to assess Ms Patterson’s credibility or as an implied admission of guilt.
But he directed the jury they could only use the alleged conduct in that way if it was the only reasonable explanation. Link

 

[Scooby-Doo]

<modsnip: sub judice>

Did not have a history of foraging mushrooms (e.g., this wasn't something she did regularly and happened by accident). Looked up death cap locations on her devicePhone was pinged in the area of those locations on her device

The dehydrator was purchased the same day as visiting death cap sites. Lied about having cancer to get people to attend the lunch under false pretenses

She chose to make individual portions over one big meal.

She specifically made individual meals to poison those at the lunch and keep herself safe, individual portions, and different plates.

She sought out deathcaps specifically, was in the location, and bought a dehydrator to store and preserve them

Had a different colored plate than everyone else

Misled health officials first, there were no death caps in the food, then the death caps came from a Chinese store, which she couldn't name

There was no evidence of any Chinese mushrooms being in the meal or her ever purchasing a product from a Chinese store

Or that death caps have ever ended up in Australia and sold in a retail setting, or that death caps are even found in China.

Was the only person with no documented illness from the lunch

Avoided hospital care / when notified that they had consumed death cap mushrooms from a meal that they all shared and she supposedly said she fed them to her kids

She didn't immediately seek medical care for herself and her children

Dumped the dehydrator about owning a dehydrator to investigatorsDehydrator contained traces of death cap mushrooms

The dumped dehydrator with the death cap traces in it is enough evidence of intent for me.

Wiped phones/evidence as police investigated, with phone A still missing

The only evidence against any of these things that I've seen comes from what Erin has said - but she has repeatedly proven herself to be a liar before, during, and after the investigation

<modsnip>

 

[Porky1]

I think the term used was "blitzed", but no specific means identified?

Blitz refers to a blender/food processor. There are cheap spice blenders on the market. A throw away item if you were planning on a one-time use.

 

[Monstradamus]

There has been no mention of DC traces from any other appliance or item in EP's kitchen, only the dumped dehydrator. I'm interested to know if police tested her benches, cutting boards, plates, knives and cutlery, appliances, Tupperware containers, Thermomix, blenders, Dishwasher, sink drain, etc. I wonder how thorough the searches were? If she accidentally prepared foraged mushrooms, where is the evidence?

 

[Monstradamus]

Apologies, I edited it immediately.

There were comments shared on EPs Facebook group and one of the witnesses shared her comments regarding Simon’s coercive behaviour. Relationship breakdowns are rarely one sided. I found some of his actions quite petty.

All comments by EP.
I would disregard, the woman couldn't lie straight in bed, imo.

 

[Two SCents]

Is there an explanation how the dried DC mushrooms then turned to powder?

Good question, though there is no answer.... only conjecture and assumption.

Dr Rogers suggested to EP she powdered death caps to secrete them as she had done with button mushrooms for the children. There was no expert or direct evidence to support this.

Experts provided testimony they couldn't see DC's in the leftovers however the leftovers tested positive for Amanita toxins. That isn't proof they were powdered, only proof they were not visually recognisable, which when looking at the attached image makes sense.

All IMO




View attachment 600107

 

[SarahSherlock]

she had only "applied" to go into nursing - not attended yet

So then this feeds into “could have been a mistake” - instead of my thoughts - if she had attended nursing school the chances of this being reckless would be zero.

 

[Detechtive]

Good question, though there is no answer.... only conjecture and assumption.

Dr Rogers suggested to EP she powdered death caps to secrete them as she had done with button mushrooms for the children. There was no expert or direct evidence to support this.

Experts provided testimony they couldn't see DC's in the leftovers however the leftovers tested positive for Amanita toxins. That isn't proof they were powdered, only proof they were not visually recognisable, which when looking at the attached image makes sense.

All IMO




View attachment 600107

The mushrooms were looked at under a microscope - for spores which identify the mushroom species. So one can deduce that considering it was Death Cap poison that killed 3 people and harmed a 4th, that they were in the meal but so finely reduced that they weren't observable under a microscope.

The fact the spores couldn't be seen visually, but Death Cap DNA was found in the leftovers, the only logical deduction is that they were in a very fine powder in the duxelle, or, the meat was marinated in a powdered Death Cap and water solution. Either way, powdered mushrooms. IMO.

 

[SarahSherlock]

I am going to make an observance - which may or may not be accurate - but its just from what I have read:
• It appears that EP is unable to "stick" to any one thing for a period of time. I have tried to note the timeline of basic life events that i can find in her adult life.
c. 1994 - 1998? after school - study? (is this the accounting there is report of studying?)
c. 1999 - 2002 air traffic controller studied for 14 months to work only for 22 months total.
c. 2002 - 2004 unaccounted for
<modsnip>
c. 2004 - at least 2005 ? working as "admin officer" with RSPCA when meets SP
c. 2007 marry and presumably live in Korumburra SP is working but maybe not EP - she says when they got married "SP gave notice at his job" nothing about her giving notice.
2007 - tour Australia.
2007 arrive in WA buy home outright using some of inheritance from Erin's grandmother
c. 2007 - 2009 - living and SP working in Perth. EP applied to university (does not say if she attended). Has son
2009 leaves SP and son in FNQ and flies "home" to Perth leaving them to drive home. Separation after - EP in a house, SP in a caravan park for 3 months.
2011 - ? EP (at least) and it appears SP and son are in Pemberton (she calls it "the middle of nowhere) - several hours SE from Perth in "Karri timber country" where she opens a second hand bookshop - she did that "for quite a while"
2013 - return to Victoria and stayed with don and gail
2014 Has daughter
2015 formal separation - note at least 2 other temporary separations between 2009 and 2015 and at least 2 reconciliations after 2015
2015 - 2020? EP lives in at least 2 houses in Korumburra at least one of which she owned and lets SP have.
2019 EP's mother dies - while she is still receiving instalments from her grandmother's estate (until 2023) she receives enough to buy and build her new house at leongatha
(my comment as an Architect - bland, boring and basically an ill constructed project home with little whimsy, delight or individualism - what a waste - but of course she thought she could design it soooooo much better).
2020? moves to new house
2022 major ructions with SP evolve.
2023 applies to study nursing then defers.

now it appears to me that her life is not very stable. She is constantly moving, when she was single it appears she moved from possibly one profession to another and sometimes did not even stay at a job as long as she studied for it. She appears to have attempted studying at least two times - is this an excuse for not working?

I am just going to say that to me this appears as someone who cannot maintain relationships, has an everchanging point of view of what they want to be, and needs something - anything to happen frequently in order to bolster themselves, thus jumping from one thing to another.

and then i look at this:

• A persistent pattern of unstable relationships, self-image, and emotions (ie, emotional dysregulation) and pronounced impulsivity (of which epitomises what has been happening since at least 1999)

This persistent pattern is shown by ≥ 5 of the following and i look at these and I (me i stress my opinion) think they are or have been present just by the timeline and by the testimony self reported or otherwise - well at least the underlined ones are completely obvious to me:

• Desperate efforts to avoid abandonment (actual or imagined)
• Unstable, intense relationships that alternate between idealizing and devaluing the other person (she loves SP but he is a deadbeat...D and G are wonderful but lost causes)
• An unstable self-image or sense of self (what does she want to do or be?)
• Impulsivity in ≥ 2 areas that could harm themselves (eg, unsafe sex, binge eating, reckless driving) (self reported and the 2004 episode)
• Repeated suicidal behavior and/or gestures or threats or self-mutilation
• Rapid changes in mood, lasting usually only a few hours and rarely more than a few days (says the arguments only last a few days then its back to normal)
• Persistent feelings of emptiness
• Inappropriately intense anger or problems controlling anger (using highly expletive and finality type language during her text talk with fb friends - OTT)
• Temporary paranoid thoughts or severe dissociative symptoms triggered by stress

and then also in my opinion this can apply
A persistent pattern of excessive emotionality and attention seeking
featuring at least 5 of exhibited by early adulthood

• Discomfort when they are not the center of attention
• Interaction with others that is inappropriately sexually seductive or provocative
• Rapidly shifting and shallow expression of emotions
• Consistent use of physical appearance to call attention to themselves
• Speech that is extremely impressionistic and vague
• Self-dramatization, theatricality, and exaggerated expression of emotion
• Suggestibility (easily influenced by others or situations)
• Interpretation of relationships as more intimate than they are

anyway - all highly speculative and my own musings about the possibilities of the "motives" of this alleged crime.

I am from WA - and Permberton where she lived is a very weird place; a lot of cults and a lot of alternative living and definitely a strong mushroom and drug growing region.

 

[MrJ]

I hope for a Monday verdict as well, I would imagine the jurors might be getting a bit tetchy the more they're sequestered. I trust they will be able to come to a unanimous decision carefully and thoughtfully. Justice for Gail, Don, Heather and Ian the survivor.

 

[Detechtive]

The mushrooms were looked at under a microscope - for spores which identify the mushroom species. So one can deduce that considering it was Death Cap poison that killed 3 people and harmed a 4th, that they were in the meal but so finely reduced that they weren't observable under a microscope.

The fact the spores couldn't be seen visually, but Death Cap DNA was found in the leftovers, the only logical deduction is that they were in a very fine powder in the duxelle, or, the meat was marinated in a powdered Death Cap and water solution. Either way, powdered mushrooms. IMO.

Further, you can't put powdered mushrooms into a dehydrator - so the fact that vegetable matter containing Death Cap Toxins were found in the dehydrator, we can then deduce that the mushrooms were in there in solid form before being powdered. And the only person who could have done that is Erin. IMO

 

[Porky1]

I wonder why she involved them (his parents) in the first place? They are both grown adults. Seems she wasn't getting her own way with SP and thought she could guilt him into compliance? Did she believe they would pick her side over their son? It's very odd, imo.

It sounds petty and I suspect both were playing games. She might have felt incredibly frustrated and ‘maybe’ involved them as she was at her wits end.

Without knowing them personally and only based on the detail published, I suspect it was never about money, but a mutual responsibility to raise the kids and share the costs fairly. The sons surgery bill was the point I turned against Simon as it wasn’t a regular expense, it was weaponised unnecessarily.

 

[Detechtive]

Another thing I haven't seen anyone mention, is that when you powder mushrooms, the powder takes on the same hue as the original mushrooms.

Button mushrooms are white, and the powder would have been more white. Death Caps have a yellow tinge, so the powder would have been yellow-ish. Hardly difficult to distinguish between the two. IMO

<modsnip: Images removed due to no link to source>