GUILTY Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 *Arrest* #17

[Porky1]

There has been no mention of DC traces from any other appliance or item in EP's kitchen, only the dumped dehydrator. I'm interested to know if police tested her benches, cutting boards, plates, knives and cutlery, appliances, Tupperware containers, Thermomix, blenders, Dishwasher, sink drain, etc. I wonder how thorough the searches were? If she accidentally prepared foraged mushrooms, where is the evidence?

I was curious about that too. I guess the forensic testing wasn’t viable given it was likely 3 months between collecting, autumn to winter.

If it was premeditated, you’d limit your tools and throw them away immediately. Bleach the bench top, sink, etc. Store the DC container in a garage or shed, in a secondary container or locked box. Iam still puzzled why the dehydrator wasn’t disposed earlier. To me, you would dispose everything months prior. The dehydrator is a sticking point for me.

 

[SarahSherlock]

I am going to make an observance - which may or may not be accurate - but its just from what I have read:
• It appears that EP is unable to "stick" to any one thing for a period of time. I have tried to note the timeline of basic life events that i can find in her adult life.
c. 1994 - 1998? after school - study? (is this the accounting there is report of studying?)
c. 1999 - 2002 air traffic controller studied for 14 months to work only for 22 months total.
c. 2002 - 2004 unaccounted for
<modsnip>
c. 2004 - at least 2005 ? working as "admin officer" with RSPCA when meets SP
c. 2007 marry and presumably live in Korumburra SP is working but maybe not EP - she says when they got married "SP gave notice at his job" nothing about her giving notice.
2007 - tour Australia.
2007 arrive in WA buy home outright using some of inheritance from Erin's grandmother
c. 2007 - 2009 - living and SP working in Perth. EP applied to university (does not say if she attended). Has son
2009 leaves SP and son in FNQ and flies "home" to Perth leaving them to drive home. Separation after - EP in a house, SP in a caravan park for 3 months.
2011 - ? EP (at least) and it appears SP and son are in Pemberton (she calls it "the middle of nowhere) - several hours SE from Perth in "Karri timber country" where she opens a second hand bookshop - she did that "for quite a while"
2013 - return to Victoria and stayed with don and gail
2014 Has daughter
2015 formal separation - note at least 2 other temporary separations between 2009 and 2015 and at least 2 reconciliations after 2015
2015 - 2020? EP lives in at least 2 houses in Korumburra at least one of which she owned and lets SP have.
2019 EP's mother dies - while she is still receiving instalments from her grandmother's estate (until 2023) she receives enough to buy and build her new house at leongatha
(my comment as an Architect - bland, boring and basically an ill constructed project home with little whimsy, delight or individualism - what a waste - but of course she thought she could design it soooooo much better).
2020? moves to new house
2022 major ructions with SP evolve.
2023 applies to study nursing then defers.

now it appears to me that her life is not very stable. She is constantly moving, when she was single it appears she moved from possibly one profession to another and sometimes did not even stay at a job as long as she studied for it. She appears to have attempted studying at least two times - is this an excuse for not working?

Great time-line with short work stints - this article which has interviewed her past working peers - sheds some insight - https://www.news.com.au/national/vi...r/news-story/c46976b1c97487d18bbe32f521f54f25

 

[Two SCents]

Good question, though there is no answer.... only conjecture and assumption.

Dr Rogers suggested to EP she powdered death caps to secrete them as she had done with button mushrooms for the children. There was no expert or direct evidence to support this.

Experts provided testimony they couldn't see DC's in the leftovers however the leftovers tested positive for Amanita toxins. That isn't proof they were powdered, only proof they were not visually recognisable, which when looking at the attached image makes sense.

All IMO




View attachment 600107

EP has not disputed Death Caps were dried in the dehydrator. Nor does she dispute the death caps were in the Beef Wellington.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

I was curious about that too. I guess the forensic testing wasn’t viable given it was likely 3 months between collecting, autumn to winter.

If it was premeditated, you’d limit your tools and throw them away immediately. Bleach the bench top, sink, etc. Store the DC container in a garage or shed, in a secondary container or locked box. Iam still puzzled why the dehydrator wasn’t disposed earlier. To me, you would dispose everything months prior. The dehydrator is a sticking point for me.

Maybe she didn't count on her online FB friends testifying re the dehydrator?

 

[SarahSherlock]

I am from WA - and Permberton where she lived is a very weird place; a lot of cults and a lot of alternative living and definitely a strong mushroom and drug growing region.

Pemberton is actually the Mushroom capital in WA - just read more about the area -
Mushrooms in Pemberton, WA:

• Winter Mushroom Season:
  The cooler months bring out a variety of mushrooms in the Pemberton area, including both edible and potentially dangerous species.
  
  
• Edible Varieties:
  Some edible mushrooms found in Western Australia include certain species of the genera Macrolepiota, Morchella, and Suillus, but positive identification by an expert is essential before consumption.
  
  
• Dangerous Species:
  The Death Cap mushroom (Amanita phalloides) is a highly poisonous species that can be found in Western Australia.
  
  
• Foraging:
  The Pemberton Visitor Centre recommends leaving foraging to experts and to be cautious when identifying mushrooms in the wild.
  
  
• Mushroom Scavenger Hunts:
  The Pemberton Tramway Company offers mushroom scavenger hunts, encouraging exploration of the forest and its fungal inhabitants.
  

 

[Porky1]

or, the meat was marinated in a powdered Death Cap and water solution. Either way, powdered mushrooms. IMO.

The marinade is a feasible option but I agree, most likely powdered as there were two samples found on the dehydrator trays.

 

[Porky1]

Further, you can't put powdered mushrooms into a dehydrator - so the fact that vegetable matter containing Death Cap Toxins were found in the dehydrator, we can then deduce that the mushrooms were in there in solid form before being powdered.

Also, it would be impossible to powder a mushroom (to dust) without drying it first

 

[dothetime]

Maybe the below explains why.

"I was in an induced coma for 16 days through which I had three emergency operations

My family were asked to come and say goodbye to me twice, as I was not expected to live."

He was in intensive care for 21 days before starting to recover.

Mushroom case: She tried to kill her husband four times, police say - South Gippsland Sentinel Times

AS WELL laying three murder charges against Erin Patterson, 49, of Leongatha, police have also charged Ms Patterson with attempting to murder her husband Simon, the father of her two children. They claim Ms Paterson tried to poison her husband on...

www.sgst.com.au

she had only "applied" to go into nursing - not attended yet

she had only "applied" to go into nursing - not attended yet

Indeed, and as far as I know, there was no evidence of an 'application' presented to the court.

 

[katydid23]

"No, recklessness cannot be accidental in the legal sense. Recklessness implies a conscious disregard for a known risk."


A conscious disregard for a known risk? CORRECT, THAT'S WHAT THE MEANING IS.

If so, then EP is reckless because she consciously disregarded a known risk.

Did EP know that Death Caps were a known risk? YES, she did. CORRECT.

Ok Good. So she knew Death Caps were a risk.

Did she DISREGARD that known risk, by picking wild mushrooms, NO EVIDENCE TO SAY SHE CONCIOUSLY DISREGARDED THE RISK

Of course she consciously disregarded the risk. Was she unconscious when she foraged, or when she dehydrated the unidentified wild mushrooms? NO, she simply ignored the possible risk. It was a conscious choice on her part. IMO

and disregarding the need to identify if they were safe to eat?
.THE MUSHROOM EXPERT SAID THEY CAN BE DIFFICULT TO IDENTIFY

But she didn't even try because she had pictures of them and she KNEW she picked them by Oak trees/. If she had even tried to identify what kind they were, by comparing the pictures to DC's, it would have been evident. And Oaks would have been a big clue.

She is a very intelligent woman. She could have seen that they were picked in a 'red flag' location and they had DC characteristics. If it was 'difficult' to identify them, shouldn't one discard any questionable ones?

Did she disregard the need to make certain they were safe to eat before she served them to others?
SHE THOUGHT SHE HAD PUT STORE BOUGHT MUSHROOMS IN THE DISH, NOT FORAGED ONES. THAT IS HER TESTIMONY

NO, she testified that she ADDED her foraged ones to the store bought ones in the Tupperware.

YES, she disregarded the need to check for safety before serving wild mushrooms she had picked. THAT IS NOT HER TESTIMONY. TO HER KNOWLEDGE SHE WAS USING STORE BOUGHT MUSHROOMS

Incorrect---she said she added the foraged mushrooms to the store bought ones.

But she has lied about so many things that it's hard to believe she even bought any Asian Market mushrooms.

She consciously chose to ignore the known risk of foraging, ALLEGEDLY. AND THAT WOULD RETURN A NOT GUILTY VERDICT AS THE IMPLICATION IS THAT IT WAS RECKLESS AND THAT THEY WERE NOT DELIBERATELY SOUGHT OUT

Our discussion here is about your statement 'that EP is not reckless.' That is what I was rebutting.

As to the trial, I do think her recklessness will be evident.

katydid23 said:
and did not identify what type of mushrooms she picked, before serving them to others.AGAIN, THAT IS NOT HER TESTIMONY AND AGAIN, THE JURY SHOULD REACH A NOT GUILTY VERDICT IN THAT CASE


Trying to base the verdict upon HER TESTIMONY would be fruitless, IMO
However it is her testimony that she picked mushrooms, and 'accidentally' served them to her guests.

Seeing as many lies as she told repeatedly, it is hard to accept her word for anything, imo

 

[Detechtive]

If so, then EP is reckless because she consciously disregarded a known risk.



Ok Good. So she knew Death Caps were a risk.

Of course she consciously disregarded the risk. Was she unconscious when she foraged, or when she dehydrated the unidentified wild mushrooms? NO, she simply ignored the possible risk. It was a conscious choice on her part. IMO



But she didn't even try because she had pictures of them and she KNEW she picked them by Oak trees/. If she had even tried to identify what kind they were, by comparing the pictures to DC's, it would have been evident. And Oaks would have been a big clue.

She is a very intelligent woman. She could have seen that they were picked in a 'red flag' location and they had DC characteristics. If it was 'difficult' to identify them, shouldn't one discard any questionable ones?

NO, she testified that she ADDED her foraged ones to the store bought ones in the Tupperware.

Incorrect---she said she added the foraged mushrooms to the store bought ones.

But she has lied about so many things that it's hard to believe she even bought any Asian Market mushrooms.


Our discussion here is about your statement 'that EP is not reckless.' That is what I was rebutting.

As to the trial, I do think her recklessness will be evident.

katydid23 said:
and did not identify what type of mushrooms she picked, before serving them to others.AGAIN, THAT IS NOT HER TESTIMONY AND AGAIN, THE JURY SHOULD REACH A NOT GUILTY VERDICT IN THAT CASE


Trying to base the verdict upon HER TESTIMONY would be fruitless, IMO
However it is her testimony that she picked mushrooms, and 'accidentally' served them to her guests.

Seeing as many lies as she told repeatedly, it is hard to accept her word for anything, imo

Next someone will say she was sleep walking when she picked them, bought the dehydrator, and prepared the Wellingtons.

 

[LadyL]

she had only "applied" to go into nursing - not attended yet

and hated hospitals ...

 

[katydid23]

I was curious about that too. I guess the forensic testing wasn’t viable given it was likely 3 months between collecting, autumn to winter.

If it was premeditated, you’d limit your tools and throw them away immediately. Bleach the bench top, sink, etc. Store the DC container in a garage or shed, in a secondary container or locked box. Iam still puzzled why the dehydrator wasn’t disposed earlier. To me, you would dispose everything months prior. The dehydrator is a sticking point for me.

I don't think she was worried about the dehydrator at first because she thought she had thoroughly cleansed it. But the forensics team had to take it completely apart to find the traces of DC.

I think she was shocked that the doctors figured out about the DC's so very fast. That was what triggered her to leave and go tip the dehydrator, imo.

I think she lied about Simon accusing her of using the dehydrator to kill his parents.

 

[Monstradamus]

and hated hospitals ...

And allegedly had a history of self diagnosis of non-existent health conditions using Dr Google.
MOO

 

[Monstradamus]

I was curious about that too. I guess the forensic testing wasn’t viable given it was likely 3 months between collecting, autumn to winter.

If it was premeditated, you’d limit your tools and throw them away immediately. Bleach the bench top, sink, etc. Store the DC container in a garage or shed, in a secondary container or locked box. Iam still puzzled why the dehydrator wasn’t disposed earlier. To me, you would dispose everything months prior. The dehydrator is a sticking point for me.

But she prepared the meal on the day of the lunch (or the day before). I'm guessing all relevant items were cleaned/disposed of prior to the police search/interview a few days later.
MOO

 

[Two SCents]

and hated hospitals ...

Not all graduates take up employment. Not all nurses work in hospitals. Lots of nurses work in clinics and aged care facilities.

 

[Bats]

NO, she testified that she ADDED her foraged ones to the store bought ones in the Tupperware

"Erin says she now believes foraged mushrooms may have made their way into the lunch due to a mistake about the contents of a tupperware container in her pantry"
Erin Patterson says estranged husband asked her about poisoning his parents — as it happened

Of course she consciously disregarded the risk. Was she unconscious when she foraged, or when she dehydrated the unidentified wild mushrooms? NO, she simply ignored the possible risk. It was a conscious choice on her part. IMO

"It was a process over several months in the lead-up to it, but when I got to a point where I was confident about what I thought they were … I cut a bit off one of the mushrooms, fried it up with some butter, ate it, and then saw what happened," she said.
Erin Patterson tells jury she accepts death cap mushrooms were in meal

Our discussion here is about your statement 'that EP is not reckless.' That is what I was rebutting.

Yes, the context around my question of recklessness is lost and has long passed now. No relevance at all, to the above.

 

[LinasK]

it’s been stated by several sources that she is highly intelligent - she was also at one stage involved in nursing classes; which I think would negate her being ‘reckless’ with health.

Apples and oranges. Taking nursing classes has nothing to do with being reckless with cooking ingredients.

 

[Two SCents]

Iam surprised EP didn’t suggest confusing her foraged mushrooms with another variety such as Slippery Jack mushrooms. They have a yellow tint too. At various stages of growth, they’re not dissimilar.

Especially when she had said she picked Slippery Jacks. But she was declaring she was very confident which seems at odds with claiming to have made a tragic mistake.

<modsnip: Image removed due to no link to source>

 

[Porky1]

I don't think she was worried about the dehydrator at first because she thought she had thoroughly cleansed it. But the forensics team had to take it completely apart to find the traces of DC.

I think she was shocked that the doctors figured out about the DC's so very fast. That was what triggered her to leave and go tip the dehydrator, imo.

It was a careless mistake wasn’t it. If only she had disposed of it two months prior. I wonder how strong the case would be.

Iam still not convinced she planned to murder five guests, but an attempt to make them sick is certainly where Iam sitting. Not sick enough to go to hospital, and certainly not to undergo toxin testing in the timeframe required for a positive result.

 

[Two SCents]

I think she was shocked that the doctors figured out about the DC's so very fast. That was what triggered her to leave and go tip the dehydrator, imo.

Do you mean when she left against advice and returned 40mins later? That was on Monday 31st July. She took the dehydrator to the tip on Wednesday 2nd of August. The morning after having a conversation about it with the children and Simon in the hospital and after the visit from Ms Cripps the child protection officer.