GUILTY Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 *Arrest* #17

[Hercule Holmes]

She still had Phone A after August 5, so it can't have been the phone going in the bin the day after the lunch, but I think she got rid of something out Outtrim way - a spot she was familiar with from her Death Cap foraging adventures prior. IMO

Good point. I wonder what else could have been disposed of in that toilet? A 9 second visit doesn't allow time for any normal activity.

Maybe a small bag of any leftover powdered DC's?

 

[Detechtive]

If you look at the route to Outtrim, it is all farmland until you get to a very dense scrub at Outtrim reserve. No cctv cameras on the way. Any other direction there would have been CCTV from shops, IMO.

Gibson Street to Outtrim

www.google.com

 

[Detechtive]

Good point. I wonder what else could have been disposed of in that toilet? A 9 second visit doesn't allow time for any normal activity.

The ziplock bag she contained the powdered Death Caps in, maybe? I doubt she had them in a container. IMO

 

[Hercule Holmes]

The ziplock bag she contained the powdered Death Caps in, maybe? I doubt she had them in a container. IMO

I just edited my post to add exactly that!

 

[Scuffy35]

IMO - Erin Patterson dissolved the Death Cap mushroom powder in water and then injected it into the beef eyelets before wrapping it in the mushroom duxelle and pastry. Hence allowing the police to find the pastry but minus the beef in her wheelie bin. Thinking they won’t find forensic death cap poison in the pastry.

I dont remember reports or testimony that the BW was minus the beef in her bin. Do you have a source for that please?

 

[Monstradamus]

Agree with the trophy aspect. Until death caps were specifically mentioned at the hospital, there was no reason to have to get rid of it (as long as it was hidden sufficiently to avoid use by one of the kids).

The plates, cookware, serving and eating utensils, mixing bowls, etc. Anything that could have had a trace of death caps (snipped from post #413 above) were different. They had to be disposed of asap for safety reasons - they couldn't be risked being used again by anyone.

This was very likely done on the Sunday. I wonder whether anyone may stumble across a pile of this stuff in the bush one day?

IF she was found not guilty, or even a hung jury, the finding of the above (and subsequent testing showing DC's) could be influential in a re-trial. Double jeopardy would not apply, as it would constitute significant new evidence.

I believe SP rang her Sunday late morning to tell her that all of the lunch guests were severely ill. She couldn't get rid of much evidence the day she drove to the flying lesson, and it was in the car boot ready to ditch once her son was up in the air and she had the opportunity. But the lesson was cancelled, unfortunately for her. SP rang her a 2nd time that afternoon, then she realised the spotlight could possibly be on her.

Made the kids leftover eye fillet and veggies for dinner after running the usual errands that day, then she had to wait until the next morning when the kids had gone to school. She rang SP Monday morning after getting kids ready for school and dropped them at the bus stop. Asked him to take her to hospital because she was feeling sick. He graciously declined and told her to make her own way there. She drove to hospital for her takeaway bag of fluids and once there, realised it was serious and she had to stay.

Then the panic set in. She had to leave immediately and take care of "things", which were probably still in her car boot. Perhaps she drove in the opposite direction to home, dumped some evidence, then rushed home and scraped the meat of some of the leftovers and left them in a bag for the police to find? Then back to the hospital to pretend being sick. Absolutely knew her children didn't eat DCs, and didn't want them involved. EP and kids released from hospital Tues afternoon, with no apparent effects of DC poisoning. Her lunch guests are gravely ill at this point. Child Safety are now involved, and Health Authorities are asking questions. The has hit the fan, so to speak.

On Wednesday she dumps the dehydrator while the kids are at school and the phone resets and moving of sim cards begin.

Friday the police turn up to search her house, then later conduct an interview. She managed to conceal her main Phone and sim card somehow from the police, and reset a phone whilst the search was ongoing, and afterwards.

It had been quite the week for the resourceful EP, I think.

My question is, if this was a terrible accident, why all of the lies, evidence tampering and obfuscations? Why not speak up at the start, tell authorities relevant information that could have possibly led to a quicker diagnosis and treatment of her lunch guests?

And don't get me started on that apparently non-existent Asian Grocery Store.

All MOO of course.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

The Erin Patterson Mushroom Case Is Being Spun Into An ABC TV Drama Titled ‘Toxic’​

The Erin Patterson Mushroom Case Is Being Spun Into An ABC TV Drama Titled 'Toxic'

Meanwhile, jurors will enter their fifth day of deliberations today to reach a verdict.

www.pedestrian.tv

 

[Detechtive]

I dont remember reports or testimony that the BW was minus the beef in her bin. Do you have a source for that please?

I recall it in the trial evidence in cross-examination. Nanette Rogers said it was just pastry. The full beef wellington (simons IMO) had been cut open, the meat removed, and only the pastry and duxelle was in the bin.

However, the lab noted they found death cap toxins in a beef sample, so I assumed it was a microscopic portion of beef, or a bit of her leftovers mixed in maybe. IMO

 

[Hercule Holmes]

If you look at the route to Outtrim, it is all farmland until you get to a very dense scrub at Outtrim reserve. No cctv cameras on the way. Any other direction there would have been CCTV from shops, IMO.

Gibson Street to Outtrim

www.google.com

Would there be anywhere legitimate to dispose of a duffle bag (for example). Like an industrial bin that would be emptied?

Or would it be more likely you would hide something that size in the bushland?

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Mushroom jury: What’s going on?​

 

[Parker Knoll]

I’m not a fan of weekend deliberations ( we don’t have them here in the Uk anyway ) because juries need a break to think things through out of the courthouse and fellow jurors.
I think we will have a verdict today and I don’t think anyone will be surprised by it.
JMO

 

[Detechtive]

I believe SP rang her Sunday late morning to tell her that all of the lunch guests were severely ill. She couldn't get rid of much evidence the day she drove to the flying lesson, and it was in the car boot ready to ditch once her son was up in the air and she had the opportunity. But the lesson was cancelled, unfortunately for her. SP rang her a 2nd time that afternoon, then she realised the spotlight could possibly be on her.

Made the kids leftover eye fillet and veggies for dinner after running the usual errands that day, then she had to wait until the next morning when the kids had gone to school. She rang SP Monday morning after getting kids ready for school and dropped them at the bus stop. Asked him to take her to hospital because she was feeling sick. He graciously declined and told her to make her own way there. She drove to hospital for her takeaway bag of fluids and once there, realised it was serious and she had to stay.

Then the panic set in. She had to leave immediately and take care of "things", which were probably still in her car boot. Perhaps she drove in the opposite direction to home, dumped some evidence, then rushed home and scraped the meat of some of the leftovers and left them in a bag for the police to find? Then back to the hospital to pretend being sick. Absolutely knew her children didn't eat DCs, and didn't want them involved. EP and kids released from hospital Tues afternoon, with no apparent effects of DC poisoning. Her lunch guests are gravely ill at this point. Child Safety are now involved, and Health Authorities are asking questions. The has hit the fan, so to speak.

On Wednesday she dumps the dehydrator while the kids are at school and the phone resets and moving of sim cards begin.

Friday the police turn up to search her house, then later conduct an interview. She managed to conceal her main Phone and sim card somehow from the police, and reset a phone whilst the search was ongoing, and afterwards.

It had been quite the week for the resourceful EP, I think.

My question is, if this was a terrible accident, why all of the lies, evidence tampering and obfuscations? Why not speak up at the start, tell authorities relevant information that could have possibly led to a quicker diagnosis and treatment of her lunch guests?

And don't get me started on that apparently non-existent Asian Grocery Store.

All MOO of course.

Totally agree - I'll add to that - I don't think she thought of the 'I need to make myself look sick, too' excuse until the Sunday night after finding out they were all in hospital, which is why she went to the hospital the next day. I think her excuse was going to be "the kids and I both ate it, and we are fine, it can't have been our meal - it must have been another meal that Gail, Ian, Heather and Don were having together in the days prior".

Then on the Sunday, when she found out they were at the hospital, she panicked indeed and skipped church. Then, I believe her brother in law called her on the Sunday night asking about the meal and where she got the mushrooms? I might have that wrong? Then Sunday night she came up with the 'I am sick too, plan' and probably popped some laxatives to invoke diarrhoea / dehydration symptoms.

Then rings Simon on the Monday morning saying she is sick too, and asking him to take her to the hospital once the kids were out of the way.

IMO only - pure speculation.

 

[Detechtive]

Would there be anywhere legitimate to dispose of a duffle bag (for example). Like an industrial bin that would be emptied?

Or would it be more likely you would hide something that size in the bushland?

I'm not sure but anything industrial would probably have cctv, I would think. It doesn't look like there is anything at Outtrim, other than some rural properties.

She could have even put something at the bottom of the council bins in the reserve there, or in the bushland, IMO.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

I’m not a fan of weekend deliberations ( we don’t have them here in the Uk anyway ) because juries need a break to think things through out of the courthouse and fellow jurors.
I think we will have a verdict today and I don’t think anyone will be surprised by it.
JMO

I'm thinking today as well.

 

[Detechtive]

I’m not a fan of weekend deliberations ( we don’t have them here in the Uk anyway ) because juries need a break to think things through out of the courthouse and fellow jurors.
I think we will have a verdict today and I don’t think anyone will be surprised by it.
JMO

I agree. They had Sunday off to contemplate alone - I think it will be later today too. IMO

 

[Scuffy35]

P[[p

 

[owlmama]

Just coming back to the whole idea of EP presenting to hospital 'for fluids'.

As an ED nurse, there are a few things about this that don't make any sense to me. If someone is unwell enough to need fluids in ED, it's because they can't keep anything down at home. We don't rush to give fluids to someone just because they say they've had a bit of diarrhoea.

She claimed to hate hospitals and had a mistrust of medical professionals. So presumably she would only self present for fluids if she was really desperate. In which case she would clearly look unwell, and would not be rushing off to take care of minor matters at home. Anyone who's had severe gastro or food poisoning knows that by the time you get to the point of not keeping anything down and becoming significantly dehydrated, you basically feel like you're dying and don't want to do anything more than absolutely necessary (eg think of Ian and Heather camping out beside the bathrooms). This is not at all how she presented according to staff treating her (or on CCTV footage at the hospital).

So I'm perplexed as to why she presented to hospital in the first place. And then why she would leave so quickly. If she was that unwell, it would have made more sense to stay for a bag or two of fluids first ( they can be pushed through in an hour or two for someone who is actually dehydrated). She would have then felt much better and perhaps been in a position to sort out things at home if she really needed to.

If I had a patient present like this and then rush off without having any treatment, I would be puzzled and question the legitimacy of their symptoms. When you add in the concern about death cap ingestion, it makes even less sense and would certainly arouse some suspicion.

All obviously just my personal experience and IMO

 

[Two SCents]

An extra jacket doesn’t require a backpack and a duffel bag. And isn’t generally needed in a heated hospital. If she wasn’t planning to stay, why bring two packed bags?

I can't speak on all hospitals, but it just so happens my son spent two days in a private hospital in Sydney last week. I sat with him for most of that time and had to duck back to my accommodation and get a warmer jacket because it was cold in the room.

I stand by my belief that she did not go to the hospital expecting to stay. My belief is supported by evidence she had Simon cancel their daughter's ballet rehearsal which was to be Monday evening.

You could speculate about why she had two bags and what was in them, but at the end of the day we simply don't know.
Imo

 

[Kemug]

Well before we could google everything, my understanding was that mushrooms were bad for dogs. Until recently, I didn’t bother to check if that was revised. I can’t imagine my dogs would enjoy them and I’ll continue to thrown them out.

Trying to imagine the effect onions, etc, would have on the lovely scent of dog poo (especially on the shoe) - or maybe it couldn't be any worse anyway. And yes, there are still some dog owners out there who don't do the right thing.

 

[Lisa4]

If I had a patient present like this and then rush off without having any treatment, I would be puzzled and question the legitimacy of their symptoms.

On reading your post, I immediately pictured the scene - medical staff standing stunned, watching the patient flee. Then turning to look at each other. The realization hitting like a shockwave, spreading through the room - there goes the cook who prepared the questionable meal - and here we have her four guests dying.

That shocked silence in the room must have been deafening.

MOMO- My own musings only.