Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #11

[Carovb5]

Not Marion.

FOUND: Police confirm missing woman has been located

I was searching for anything related to a Marion missing who could have been the Marion in Armidale and came up with a story about a woman who went missing for 2 years.

Was found but denied she was the person and then spent time in hospital. She was treated for dissociative identity amnesia.
Then it seems years later she disappeared again but was found within 24 hours this time.

Not Marion related, but more about the condition.

I don't believe this is what happened to Marion, though I might have entertained the idea until the info that came out at the inquest.

A few months ago I found a woman in Belgium in this condition who looked like an aged Marion. I know it was far fetched with the info we have, but i did send it to the tipline (mentioning there i knew the chanches were small it was her).

I do NOT say it was her, but i’m afraid that, with the fact that this case is getting so wild & big, people will be afraid to send in ‘simple’ tips. And that might be the downside of the crazy & enormous case of mr Aka. So i hope that you amazing sleuthers keep on sending in things that seem worth it to you, even though it might not be as wild als the info we’re getting about mr Aka.

 

[Jay_Tec]

What for? IMO JO testimony told all.

Dunno, not saying everyone hasn't said all they know. For me, when I've been a victim of crime, later, I start connecting dots and remembering things out of the blue.

 

[gymtonic]

This is what I think too.

I don't think the Wonka's would have attempted to transfer Marion's policy across to them or a new vehicle as that makes a direct link.

They were shutting down Marion's life on paper. Use of the Medicare card seems to be super high risk and petty if only for obtaining some glasses or such.
So, maybe that was all part of impersonating Marion.

If they were impersonating Marion maybe they wanted to buy the car in her name, transfer her driver assist / insurance policy on to it, but something went wrong during the phone call to the RACQ?

Possibly the call handler started asking details of Marion's previous car - Wonkas would have assumed it's been sold by Sally. In fact it had been transferred into Sally's ownership. Maybe that blip resulted in an awkward conversation that alerted the call handler to something doesn't flow right here. Maybe 'fake Marion' felt put on the spot and said something like "oh I'm so annoyed with my daughter she was supposed to have sold the car, not kept it, oh... you know what, just cancel the whole policy"

I think there is still some confusion in what you've written about the difference between RACQ Car Insurance POLICY and the RACQ Membership so I've re quoted an earlier post

...RACQ Membership and RACQ Car Insurance Policy are 2 separate things and the terms keep being used interchangeably and as if necessarily linked but you can have one without the other.

RACQ membership is a personal membership and you nominate whichever car/s you own as covered (or associate membership temporarily if no car) for road side services. You keep your membership number regardless of which car you own or nominate. This membership does not transfer from one person to another on sale of a car.

RACQ Car Insurance Policy is taken out on a particular nominated car. If you sold a car then you would either transfer the insurance to another car (with possible change in premiums) or take out a new policy or cancel it if not buying another car. In the context of MB signing the car over to SL, maybe MB said she would keep the existing policy going until SL took out a new policy and so it lapsed on that date. IMO SL could shed more light on this by remembering what happened with the car insurance and whether the car insurance was expected to last a lot longer than 7 August? (and so cancelling it on 7 August wold be significant)

If you sold or "signed" over (gave in SL's case) your car to someone else, then that person would have to go through changing the registered car owner / number plate to the new owner at the Department of Transport. The new owner would usually take out their own Car Insurance Policy in their name but RACQ membership wouldn't be transferred as it is a personal membership not a car membership.
Does that make sense?

 

[Jay_Tec]

Re: Use of the MediCare card...

Is it possible, that someone who wanted to impersonate Marion may have wanted to ascertain or acquire the exact same style and frame of glasses Marion wore ?

Maybe rung up and asked for an extra set then collected them ? Not involving having eyes tested or examined, just requesting the same as last time.

One would need to pay for glasses upon collection right ? They could have paid cash ?

 

[Roseberry]

Dunno, not saying everyone hasn't said all they know. For me, when I've been a victim of crime, later, I start connecting dots and remembering things out of the blue.

Perhaps. IMO all the relevant questions have already been asked, the answers not fully explicated/only alluded to, thus far.

 

[Jay_Tec]

I think there is still some confusion in what you've written about the difference between RACQ Car Insurance POLICY and the RACQ Membership so I've re quoted an earlier post


If you sold or "signed" over (gave in SL's case) your car to someone else, then that person would have to go through changing the registered car owner / number plate to the new owner at the Department of Transport. The new owner would usually take out their own Car Insurance Policy in their name but RACQ membership wouldn't be transferred as it is a personal membership not a car membership.
Does that make sense?

Got it, thanks

 

[gymtonic]

Re: Use of the MediCare card...

Is it possible, that someone who wanted to impersonate Marion may have wanted to ascertain or acquire the exact same style and frame of glasses Marion wore ?

Maybe rung up and asked for an extra set then collected them ? Not involving having eyes tested or examined, just requesting the same as last time.

One would need to pay for glasses upon collection right ? They could have paid cash ?

Hi @Jay_Tec

I've requoted another earlier posting of mine re the Medicare (also posted from the knowledge of being a Teachers Union Health member

I've also had some thoughts on the event: MB’s Medicare Card used at Optometrist in Grafton on 13 August 1997 which relates to personal knowledge as a member of the Queensland Teachers Union Health (Private Health Insurance Fund and now called Teachers Health and in between Teachers Union Health)

SL was asked at inquest re MB's medical history and usual practices and SL says that as a member of QTHU she would access regular dental and optometry checks at the QTUH own Health Centre on St Paul’s Terrace in Brisbane (which I also attended regularly so I know how it worked). The benefit of attending this centre was that as a member there would be no gap payable and they had their own supply of subsidised glasses frames. However if you were elsewhere in the state, you could attend a practice on the QTHU list which would also give you no gap treatment option. If you attended a practice not on the list you would need to pay and then claim back benefits from QTUH and in 1997 I believe this still meant presenting in person at the counter at the centre with receipts (so not convenient nine to do it this way). Additional information is that simple eye checks with no additional services (like glasses or retina scans etc) were covered by Medicare. Also if you went overseas for a period of time (e.g. to work like I did in 1996 for 2 years), you could put your membership on temporary hold and not have to pay premiums. So...insights/ queries from this:

Can we assume that the visit to DE Optometrist at Grafton was billed as Medicare only and was therefore a simple eye check only? If new glasses or anything else requested/ required then this would have to have been paid upfront and claimed back from the health fund. Has this been checked to see if it happened?

OR I guess...if the QTHU premiums had been put on hold then no claim could have been made for additional services anyway.

It would seem to me that chosing to visit an optometrist like DE who was based in Coffs Harbour but worked into Grafton and another country town ensured that he would be less likely to remember particular cases, and an MO more likely to be a stolen card sold to someone who is not eligible for Medicare?

OR...a planted breadcrumb to suggest MB is back in Oz?

 

[buyerninety]

Two minor points:

1.) Reviewing the car number plate 'registration
letter/number ranges' for the various Australian
'States and Territories';
Vehicle registration plates of Australia - Wikipedia
it would appear that, for a (second hand) Magna
car that was bought & sold in late 1997 and that
at that time had a registration plate with the
letter/number range PVC097, that that letter/
number combination seems to originate within
the range of NSW assigned registrations
from about the year 1989,
Vehicle registration plates of New South Wales - Wikipedia
and does not seem to fit within the registration
range of any other State or Territory (for
instance, the State of Victoria did not begin
issuing in the range 'Pxx-nnn' until year 1999,
and the State of Queensland issued in the range
of 'PVx-nnn' possibly in the year 1963 and
possibly in the year 1970 but that Queensland
registration letter/number range would not be
seen assigned to a Magna as the Magna car was
manufactured between the years 1985 to 2005)
Mitsubishi Magna - Wikipedia
(Note-although it is possible that that
letter/number range was carried over by a
previous owner applying for reusage of a
historic 'old plate' or possibly some variation of
a 'personalised plate', in actuality the probability
of a fairly hum-drum car such as this Magna
having had a 'historic plate' or that variation
of a 'personalised plate' would be quite low).

A check of the registration letter/number
combination PVC097 at;
https://my.service.nsw.gov.au/MyServiceNSW/index#/rms/freeRegoCheck/details
returns this result;
"The details you entered do not match our records.
Please check and try again. Need help? Call us on
13 77 88."

2.) A consequence of membership of RACV (and
I assume this applies to RACQ membership also
and perhaps NRMA also), is that the RACV e.g.
posts a periodical magazine to their members
something like bi-monthly or quarterly during
the year - therefore it could have also been an
additional concern of RB's that that magazine
could have been seen, perhaps by e.g. MB's
relatives, with MB's name, at whatever postal
address MB had recorded with the car insurance
company ( be it the RACV or the RACQ or the
NRMA) . I'm aware e.g. the RACV will continue
to post this magazine, even if say, a resident at
the postal address phones them to complain
that the member the magazine is addressed to
NO LONGER lives at the address, and hasn't
lived there for years.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I'm thinking that quite a few victms of a love scam, would not want to divulge certain information.

I would think that you would want to keep some things to yourself. Maybe out of embarrassment or being thought of as stupid or gullible, and there could be other reasons as well.

Human beings are not all the same and just because we may think that people would think the way we do, and do things the way we do, often they don't.

So has everyone told everything they know. I very much doubt it.

 

[Jay_Tec]

Hi @Jay_Tec

I've requoted another earlier posting of mine re the Medicare (also posted from the knowledge of being a Teachers Union Health member

Thank you! Going on my theory of an imposter, I can't imagine they'd be able to risk having an eye test as surely there'd be notes filed / computerised about eye conditions.

I feel that using the card, or selling it on, is so high risk for little gain. Unless one were sure that it could be used for getting a replacement pair of spectacles no in person interactions necessary bar collection and payment.

 

[gymtonic]

Thank you! Going on my theory of an imposter, I can't imagine they'd be able to risk having an eye test as surely there'd be notes filed / computerised about eye conditions.

I feel that using the card, or selling it on, is so high risk for little gain. Unless one were sure that it could be used for getting a replacement pair of spectacles no in person interactions necessary bar collection and payment.

Actually it is very unlikely that this Optometrist would have access to any previous medical notes at all (especially in 1997). The fact that MB attended the QTUH's own centre in Brisbane and saw in-house providers there (as per normal practice of QTUH members and SL's testimony) meant that all the records would be held there and not accessible by anyone else. This is waaaay before the time of any centralised Australian health records. MyGov and MyHealthRecord has only been introduced fairly recently and MHR is opt in only still (Any Aussies on here will know exactly what I mean about the kerfuffle that has been made any time there has been a proposal to have any centralised anything which is seen as the government keeping tabs!!). Whoever used the Medicare Card used a provider who travelled around to more than one practice and maybe they knew this. Eye exams are the only service claimable under Medicare. IMO Whoever it was just made an appointment for an eye exam and when they turned up were probably asked if they had any concerns and if they knew what their existing prescription was. If they had said that they didn't know but had noticed their eyesight changing, I doubt that this would have been seen as suspicious at all. IMO it would be an excellent way of planting false proof of life.

More commonly Medicare fraud is to use a stolen card to provide points ID for getting other documents, but there is nothing to say that using it to plant proof of life wouldn't also serve a dual purpose.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Don't you mean ferry to Harwich?

Haha yes! whoops

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Does anyone know if you lose your Medicare card and get a new one sent out.. if there is any difference on it to your previous card?
Number on card, expiry date etc.

I’m saying this because marions wallet was stolen it is possible that the card used was not by Marion and a random stranger who had the old card?

I recently got a new Medicare card as the old one expired, so it arrived in the mail.. same numbers different expiry date.

My chip stoped working in my visa so I rang and had a new one sent out - there was no difference at all to my old card.. expiry was the same BECAUSE it was a replacement card. I have both cards in my wallet atm and they are identical.

So, if after wallet was stolen, and new cards sent out… would the Medicare card be considered a ‘replacement’ card and be a replica of the lost one?

If so… then technically there would be 2 cards with MB’s name on them, with the exact same details.

therefore how do we know which card was used at the optometrist?

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

If anyone has good notes on all the postcards, (date postmarked, date arrived, area sent from) can you please post?

I think @Lord Peter Flimsy is pretty good at Marion's whereabouts in the UK

I’m struggling getting copies of the originals on here. My IT skills are very 1920s! I wonder if someone has transcripts etc?

 

[Satchie]

during which time he devised a plan to empty the account (possibly by phone banking) on 15th October. The money probably went overseas before returning to a safe account back here to be withdrawn and placed in the safety deposit envelope at his Ballina branch. IMOO

RSBM
Personally I doubt a bank would transfer that large of an amount by phone, plus we have been told MB went into the bank.

Also, a bank won't consider it an account transfer if the target account is in another person's name. In that case it would be a payment to a third party.

If that had been the case, once inquiries were launched about her disappearance, IMO the bank would have cooperated and told police that MB made a payment of $80K to a person named X, with bank account y at this bank z, and police would have followed up.

Instead, they said she transferred the money to her own account and she insisted that when her family inquired after her, as they inevitably would, she didn't want to be found.

IMO, she didn't just mention that in passing. For MB to transfer her $$ to a new account, in a new name, she must have shown someone who knew her (ie recognized her as their customer, not a stranger in a wig) her change of name documents, her new passport, her new bank account documents in her new name, and so forth, before they would agree to do an 'account transfer'.

Similarly, at the receiving end, there's a clear difference between a deposit from a third party, and a transfer from the owner's other account.

Now, possibly that was, or became, a joint account with another person, and that's how her money was taken from her, but IMO it had to be MB who put her own money there. Banks aren't careless or naive about fraud, preventing it is their primary business.

JMO

ETA Forgot to mention matching signatures...

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

Try again

 

[Satchie]

Late 1996
The dH family move from 16 Howards Cres, Ballina to 8 Rubiton St, Wollingbar....
...
Late 1997
The dH family move from Wollingbar back to ‘The Terrace’, Ballina

It would be interesting to know the value of each of these propeties, was The Terrace a much more valuable property than the other homes?

 

[BonnieB]

Yes, lets look at Armidale. It seems very precise and specific as to the location. The problem with such precision is that is it speaks to the following:

1. A witness, who was also an accomplice, who suddenly had some kind of death-wish and decided to speak up;

2. A witness, who was not an accomplice, who happened upon something that would take at least 1-2 hours to accomplish in a fairly public place, with or without assistants, with car access, who looked the other way at the time, then decided to speak up.

3. An accomplice, who may or may not have been a witness, who was persuaded to divert via phone call to Crimestoppers.

4. A random troll.

For 1 and 2 , look at Armidale. For 3. look at any other place other than Armidale. Just IMO

I'm hovering somewhere between 2 & 4 and I think it was somewhere between Grafton & Armidale NOT in Armidale itself. That area is far too public

 

[BonnieB]

Re: Use of the MediCare card...

Is it possible, that someone who wanted to impersonate Marion may have wanted to ascertain or acquire the exact same style and frame of glasses Marion wore ?

Maybe rung up and asked for an extra set then collected them ? Not involving having eyes tested or examined, just requesting the same as last time.

One would need to pay for glasses upon collection right ? They could have paid cash ?

The Medicare card was used at a random optometrist in a shopping mall. It was documented by Medicare as an 'initial consultation'. As the business has long closed, and records destroyed, there is no way of knowing what the consultation was about. IMO it was Marion.

 

[brjakj]

Does anyone know if you lose your Medicare card and get a new one sent out.. if there is any difference on it to your previous card?
Number on card, expiry date etc.

I’m saying this because marions wallet was stolen it is possible that the card used was not by Marion and a random stranger who had the old card?

I recently got a new Medicare card as the old one expired, so it arrived in the mail.. same numbers different expiry date.

My chip stoped working in my visa so I rang and had a new one sent out - there was no difference at all to my old card.. expiry was the same BECAUSE it was a replacement card. I have both cards in my wallet atm and they are identical.

So, if after wallet was stolen, and new cards sent out… would the Medicare card be considered a ‘replacement’ card and be a replica of the lost one?

If so… then technically there would be 2 cards with MB’s name on them, with the exact same details.

therefore how do we know which card was used at the optometrist?

If you get a replacement Medicare card, the last number of the card changes to the number of cards. So the initial one would have 1 as the last number, second one 2, etc.