Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #11

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

If this is the case , how does this scenario play out in regards to MB after her so called marriage to a Remekel from Luxembourg ?

@mishy66 well done with your interesting skills to drill down on details ...but what on earth happened to Desiree Wouters ?

Marion was in 1997 law from 1985 marriage didn’t entitle you to a Belgian passport.

Belgian nationality law - Wikipedia

 

[Roseberry]

sorry no clue why you would print departure cards when they are freely available at the airport for anyone to get and the cost to print is not cheap.

I personally don't doubt the validity to these 2 departure cards but that's just me, the only thing I am questioning is why they would travel separately and the fact that they are from 2 print runs only backs up my thinking that they did leave separately ( as well as 2 different flight )

What I am trying to get at is, don't trust anything they produce, and look at why they might be doing it.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Could the date/s be incorrect? The problem is that these cards are never checked by authorities at the time to make sure they're correct. You can virtually put anything on them IMO.

You'll need to see the back of the card, it has the date stamp on it.

 

[KiwiNZ]

What I am trying to get at is, don't trust anything they produce, and look at why they might be doing it.

I get what your saying but sorry I would go nuts if i thought everything was a conspiracy lol.... This I believe, other stuff I don't .. I don't believe they have a factory printing Australian departure cards when they are free to take in handfuls at the airport.

 

[Roseberry]

I get what your saying but sorry I would go nuts if i thought everything was a conspiracy lol.... This I believe, other stuff I don't .. I don't believe they have a factory printing Australian departure cards when they are free to take in handfuls at the airport.

Sure KiwiNZ and that probably was a bit OTT on my part, but this whole thing is just one big conspiracy. Nothing is ever done here without some financial advantage. Women and babies (and the men, too) are constantly being moved across borders for no apparent purpose. Turns out there was a purpose with MB and JO, and so there will be with EWJ and probably DdeH's daughter way back when. As much as I'd like to believe it was to rescue EWJ in some way from what was going on in Aus, I can't help but consider it only would have been done if it was to some additional advantage.

 

[mishy66]

She could simply have used it because that was on her birth certificate.

I know.
Sorry I wasn't referring to her just pointing out WHY it would be possible that IK DID marry WW.
".....why use that name IF they (the parents) didn't marry...... and we don't actually have any documentation about marriage to MJR ........"

 

[Liselle]

Now to compile a spreadsheet of known passports, drivers licenses, businesses, scams and arrests of each name

[/QUOTE]
@BonnieB If the print-out of your spreadsheet is as extensive as I imagine, I am keeping a lookout to see if is coming down my street yet!!

 

[MrsWattle]

I recall Wonka saying that IK ran away to Melbourne. There was a Josephine Novotny b:1896 Csejte, Hungary living in Melbourne. Don't know if she was connected on IK's mother's side.

Somewhere in my notes I found a Novotny working as Australian immigration officer.

 

[mishy66]

Here’s some more info on passports.. that adds to the confusion of IK and baby passport numbers.

it wasn’t until 1986 that children could no longer be on parents passport and had to have their own.

So baby IK would have to have been on mother or fathers passport.

Baby IK passport starts with letter G

In 1964, 'G' series passport introduced, with the St Edward's Crown at the top of the cover, the word 'Australia' followed by the Australian Coat of Arms, and the words 'British Passport' at the bottom.

Australian passport - Wikipedia

The evolution of the Australian passport

Because it starts with letter G… would this mean it is an Australian Passport?????? Thoughts??

Did WW fly out on the same number passport as arriving? Has anybody checked his numbers?

EDIT @mishy66 do you have his departure card on hand?

Yes his are the same passport number coming in and going out.

The baby PP would be an Australian one as stated on it Nationality - Australian Country of birth - Australia

 

[mishy66]

Could the date/s be incorrect? The problem is that these cards are never checked by authorities at the time to make sure they're correct. You can virtually put anything on them IMO.

The date maybe but not the flight

 

[mishy66]

There's a note that MJR visited IK in hospital. That's all. It doesn't say he was the husband IMO.

I must have missed that note.
Where was that?
Is there a link to that info?

 

[KiwiNZ]

Sure KiwiNZ and that probably was a bit OTT on my part, but this whole thing is just one big conspiracy. Nothing is ever done here without some financial advantage. Women and babies (and the men, too) are constantly being moved across borders for no apparent purpose. Turns out there was a purpose with MB and JO, and so there will be with EWJ and probably DdeH's daughter way back when. As much as I'd like to believe it was to rescue EWJ in some way from what was going on in Aus, I can't help but consider it only would have been done if it was to some additional advantage.

no worries - I do get what your saying and I am sure the trip was in some way part of a bigger scheme or plan, but I just don't believe they printed the departure cards themselves, I can see no reason too, unless you can and I am missing a reason to do so.

 

[mishy66]

Could IK and baby have flown together and the passenger cards are for first leg and second leg of flight... in those days there weren't any direct flights? Wonky must have filled it out for her? she signed it.

Not his hand IMO

 

[mishy66]

I don't think they travelled together, but I have gone crossed eyed looking for the person she travelled with lol I have checked Novotny, Kinczel, Reid, Mestdagh, David, Wouters - nothing lol

View attachment 338029

Yep gone through them all also.

 

[mishy66]

If this is the case , how does this scenario play out in regards to MB after her so called marriage to a Remekel from Luxembourg ?

@mishy66 well done with your interesting skills to drill down on details ...but what on earth happened to Desiree Wouters ?

Sipping tea in Belgium

 

[mishy66]

So to me when I look at passports.

WW in and out on same passport. 79 number

IK in passport with the ‘IR’ letters IMO is a Hungarian passport… (card also says she spent last 12 months in Hungary) which is weird because we know she was in Belgium.

Ik out passport travelling as IW (also starts 79) so I think that may be a Belgian passport in Married name… perhaps that passport WAS obtained in Belgium prior to leaving and that may have been the reason she delayed departing for OZ to obtain Belgian passport in married name.

Baby wouters - appears to be an Australian passport.

Aust passports G were introduced 1964

The Evolution of the Australian Passport • Passport-collector.com

 

[Roseberry]

no worries - I do get what your saying and I am sure the trip was in some way part of a bigger scheme or plan, but I just don't believe they printed the departure cards themselves, I can see no reason too, unless you can and I am missing a reason to do so.

Lol, no I agree, I get where you're coming from too - the departure cards are probably overtly legit in that they've passed muster and been accepted and added to the db; the actual identity of the persons behind and their details, not so much. If the purpose of the departure cards was to obfuscate and confound: mission accomplished. But why. Fast-forward to re-entry. It's so hard to trace a path. Who is leaving, and who exactly is returning? And to whose advantage? Gains all round, IMO.

 

[mishy66]

Of course, they should look legit - it's the family business!

On the scale of easy to hard things to forge, if passports and deeds were at the hard end, I'd put arrival cards way back at the easy end. I'm not saying it is, but this, and fooling around with passports, are things you have add to the mix.

It might be easier to consider what they're trying to do, and work back - what the whole purpose is and what might be at stake - sale of passports, immigration.....

100% agree.
Passports are easy for these criminals. They have been doing it since WW2 and it was how the resistance helped so many escape. BIG BUSINESS for criminals after the war too.

 

[Roseberry]

100% agree.
Passports are easy for these criminals. They have been doing it since WW2 and it was how the resistance helped so many escape. BIG BUSINESS for criminals after the war too.

$$ bills yo.

 

[BonnieB]

@BonnieB If the print-out of your spreadsheet is as extensive as I imagine, I am keeping a lookout to see if is coming down my street yet!! [/QUOTE]

Ha! It's only up to 1971 so far. My master spreadsheet is 13 pages long and I'm still making updates and corrections almost daily. It's crazy! Then I have a 1997 calendar for Marion's movements. All that and I still can't understand what the hell he was up to at times. Hopefully the next 3 days in April will tell us more.