Australia Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) - #74

[SLouTh]

#1106 - the famous photo

The report, obtained by The Australian, was generated by X-Ways forensic software. It reveals the image is a .jpg created on a digital camera, and it says: “Created: 12/09/2014 07:39:54. Corrected time: 12/09/2014 09:37:44.”

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/timestamp-doubts-over-william-photo/news-story/cf0accb8b602bde307146268bfad49c4

via …

Confusion over time famous last photo of William Tyrrell was taken

An investigation has been launched into the last known photograph of missing boy William Tyrrell, following...

www.9news.com.au

 

[Couldbe]

The photo times are as follows .. all five photos were taken within a 2min 39sec timespan.

9:35:05 (photo 1102)
9:35:19 (photo 1103) - 14 secs after #1102
9:35:28 (photo 1104) - 9 secs after #1103
9:37:29 (photo 1105) - 2 mins and 1 sec after #1104
9:37:44 (the famous pic) - 15 secs after #1105

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/william-tyrrell-new-photos-released-to-five-years-after-little-boy-disappeared/news-story/9a45ac6b77df80787e601878974b826c?amp

Thread 71, post 310

Thankyou SA and Slouth for clearing that up.
JMO - The demeanor of William that I see between his calmness in photo 1104 appears to have changed during that 2 mins until photo 1105.

 

[LolaAngelina]

IMO all the information of the morning activities are in the fg walkthrough however the times are all mixed up. If we begin from the time fc rang BS which was 9:03am and then received a call from GO at 9:10am this is the starting point. Roughly 9:15am fc took the kids out the front of the house to collect leaves for their drawings for Opa while fgm finishes up in the kitchen. All 4 were most likely on the back patio by about 9:30ish. L was drawing her picture when the photos were taken while W was more interested in playing with the crayons and leaves. L tipped the container upside down and dice fell out. Ws 3yo attention span was already looking for the next best thing. Whatever happened to W happened ON THAT BACK PATIO. It was fairly quick and happened in front of his sister (maybe fg was there maybe she was inside making the teas and saw from the window?) in her quick thinking the fc has picks W up and moves him around to the side of the house (where they originally say he was playing and roaring like a tiger). Was he roaring like a tiger or growling and groaning in pain? I feel at this point it all happened so quick that L didn’t fully understand what was happening or if her brother was actually hurt or not. Acting as though nothing happened the fc says W is quiet and goes around the side of the house pretending to look for him . 10:05am is my next starting point being the time fc takes her mothers car to look for W. Another phone is used to contact the mfc informing him of what has happened. They arrange to meet somewhere in between to hand over W (presumably not alive) and Ffc drives to Lakewood to pick up the prescription at 10:18am while the mfc finds somewhere to dispose of Ws body. They both return to the house within minutes of each other (10:30/10:35ish). Fc enters via Batar Creek Rd and sees fgm outside talking to AMS and mfc enters via the bike trail at the end of the cul-de-sac (hence why no one saw his car including fg). No search was done either inside or outside the house until the mfc returned home. Had AMS not been outside having a cigi and seeing fg walking towards her, who knows what time that triple zero call would have been made.

So in your scenario FM has around 25 minutes to bury a body (so well it is never found) and return home? That’s near impossible

 

[InFocus]

So in your scenario FM has around 25 minutes to bury a body (so well it is never found) and return home? That’s near impossible

I'm with you Lola... no way could the FFC dispose of him so quickly and professionally which is why I struggle with the scenario of her removing him.

 

[SouthAussie]

IMO all the information of the morning activities are in the fg walkthrough however the times are all mixed up. If we begin from the time fc rang BS which was 9:03am and then received a call from GO at 9:10am this is the starting point. Roughly 9:15am fc took the kids out the front of the house to collect leaves for their drawings for Opa while fgm finishes up in the kitchen. All 4 were most likely on the back patio by about 9:30ish. L was drawing her picture when the photos were taken while W was more interested in playing with the crayons and leaves. L tipped the container upside down and dice fell out. Ws 3yo attention span was already looking for the next best thing. Whatever happened to W happened ON THAT BACK PATIO. It was fairly quick and happened in front of his sister (maybe fg was there maybe she was inside making the teas and saw from the window?) in her quick thinking the fc has picks W up and moves him around to the side of the house (where they originally say he was playing and roaring like a tiger). Was he roaring like a tiger or growling and groaning in pain? I feel at this point it all happened so quick that L didn’t fully understand what was happening or if her brother was actually hurt or not. Acting as though nothing happened the fc says W is quiet and goes around the side of the house pretending to look for him . 10:05am is my next starting point being the time fc takes her mothers car to look for W. Another phone is used to contact the mfc informing him of what has happened. They arrange to meet somewhere in between to hand over W (presumably not alive) and Ffc drives to Lakewood to pick up the prescription at 10:18am while the mfc finds somewhere to dispose of Ws body. They both return to the house within minutes of each other (10:30/10:35ish). Fc enters via Batar Creek Rd and sees fgm outside talking to AMS and mfc enters via the bike trail at the end of the cul-de-sac (hence why no one saw his car including fg). No search was done either inside or outside the house until the mfc returned home. Had AMS not been outside having a cigi and seeing fg walking towards her, who knows what time that triple zero call would have been made.

I think if FD had any kind of perceived culpability in William's disappearance, he would have been named a POI. And he hasn't been.
(Victim friendly site, and all.)

Just to add, if FD had any knowledge of what happened to William, I think he would have 'broken' by now. He has been through some pretty thorough questioning, been put under pressure, back in the earlier days and more recently.

Jubes says in one of his books that FD is the emotional one, and FM is the matter-of-fact one (or words to that effect). I will look for the reference and add it.

(Reference added further below)

 

[SLouTh]

As Couldbe mentioned in an earlier post no one actually saw what time the mfc returned to the house which indicates to me he returned via the bike trail that leads to the cemetery and then Albert St. And going by GJ interview with mfc in 2016 it seems someone did see his car return via the track . HS/PS? HS left for bingo that morning at 10:37am
Fgm is asked by the detective during her walkthrough if she saw the mfc car (referring to seeing it come up the street as she headed back to the house. “No. I saw him before I saw his car”. On her walk back up to the house after briefly speaking to AMS on the rd fgm sees mfc frantically searching for W at the side of the house where he was last seen playing. Mfc walkthrough also describes the moment he returns to find out W is missing. So where did he come from? Unless fgm wasn’t telling the truth about seeing the mfc before the search began but I don’t think so. Why walk down looking for daughter after waiting some time for her return if the mfc was already home and searching for W. His 10:30am text and 10:35am arrival fits in with the time Ffc first speaks to AMS who she sees speaking to her mother as she drives into the street.
Ffc was gone for at least 20-25min. That’s enough time to leave W in a spot that mfc was familiar with and would then have ample time to hide his body somewhere else.

Interesting that you should mention HS….

I was just thinking about her yesterday…. If, as we suspect, from the posts and linked articles yesterday, that the FM drive occurred prior to FF arriving home at approx 10:35hrs …. (Came in and saw FF message on phone etc…)

Link here:
Post in thread 'Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) - #74'
Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) - #74

Then that would totally put HS in the clear, regarding a driveway accident, as William was already missing by then …..

My own personal opinion, is that FF returned via the normal Benaroon Drive,

I don’t believe it’s odd that AMS didn’t see him, as she didn’t see HS at 10:37am and he allegedly returned prior to that, at 10:35hrs, along with the statement by AMS saying it wasn’t until 10:40am she first made contact with FM … so it is possible she missed both of them in those few minutes… and even possibly another car?? As she hasn’t mentioned seeing the FM in FGM car either…

IMO

 

[FromGermany1]

IMO all the information of the morning activities are in the fg walkthrough however the times are all mixed up. If we begin from the time fc rang BS which was 9:03am and then received a call from GO at 9:10am this is the starting point. Roughly 9:15am fc took the kids out the front of the house to collect leaves for their drawings for Opa while fgm finishes up in the kitchen. All 4 were most likely on the back patio by about 9:30ish. L was drawing her picture when the photos were taken while W was more interested in playing with the crayons and leaves. L tipped the container upside down and dice fell out. Ws 3yo attention span was already looking for the next best thing. Whatever happened to W happened ON THAT BACK PATIO. It was fairly quick and happened in front of his sister (maybe fg was there maybe she was inside making the teas and saw from the window?) in her quick thinking the fc has picks W up and moves him around to the side of the house (where they originally say he was playing and roaring like a tiger). Was he roaring like a tiger or growling and groaning in pain? I feel at this point it all happened so quick that L didn’t fully understand what was happening or if her brother was actually hurt or not. Acting as though nothing happened the fc says W is quiet and goes around the side of the house pretending to look for him . 10:05am is my next starting point being the time fc takes her mothers car to look for W. Another phone is used to contact the mfc informing him of what has happened. They arrange to meet somewhere in between to hand over W (presumably not alive) and Ffc drives to Lakewood to pick up the prescription at 10:18am while the mfc finds somewhere to dispose of Ws body. They both return to the house within minutes of each other (10:30/10:35ish). Fc enters via Batar Creek Rd and sees fgm outside talking to AMS and mfc enters via the bike trail at the end of the cul-de-sac (hence why no one saw his car including fg). No search was done either inside or outside the house until the mfc returned home. Had AMS not been outside having a cigi and seeing fg walking towards her, who knows what time that triple zero call would have been made.

Very interesting theory!!
bbm: FGM also said something like "here (on the back patio) it happened, then he was gone", pointing to the edge of the building.
I'm asking myself, what could have caused the death of a child so very fast? How was FFC able to react (in a criminal way, IMO) so very fast?? How would it have been possible, that the girl didn't notice, what was going on? If she was told by FFC, a nasty or bad man had taken little W away, the sister must have thought, her mother carried her brother directly to the bad man. - ????
Long time ago, there was some talk about the dirt roads and if a vehicle of that type or another would be able to have been driven through. Could MFC really have driven his SUV through the dirt road, you are describing?

 

[Chrissy74]

So in your scenario FM has around 25 minutes to bury a body (so well it is never found) and return home? That’s near impossible

Depends on how you dispose of a body.

 

[SouthAussie]

I think if FD had any kind of perceived culpability in William's disappearance, he would have been named a POI. And he hasn't been.
(Victim friendly site, and all.)

Just to add, if FD had any knowledge of what happened to William, I think he would have 'broken' by now. He has been through some pretty thorough questioning, been put under pressure, back in the earlier days and more recently.

Jubes says in one of his books that FD is the emotional one, and FM is the matter-of-fact one (or words to that effect). I will look for the reference and add it.

This is the reference ...

Like Jane (FM), Tom (FD) is smart and has been successful, but he seems the more emotional. Watching him I can see his feelings welling up, his words are catching in his throat, as if they're threatening to choke him. If he is playacting the part of a grieving father, then it's a good performance.

I Catch Killers, Gary Jubelin, chapter What Other Options Have You Got?

(Jane and Tom are Jubes' chosen pseudonyms)

 

[FromGermany1]

Newest thought, suddenly:

Could little W have choked on a dice??

(Although I think, that couldn't have happened unnoticed by the sister or/and FGM.)

 

[SLouTh]

I'm asking myself, what could have caused the death of a child so very fast?

Sadly FG, it only takes a split second and a child can go from playing to dead…. the way they hit their head or their neck etc…

As unbelievable as that sounds, it does happen… just like a motor vehicle accident can be a split second error …. And lives are irrevocably changed …

IMO

 

[SLouTh]

Newest thought, suddenly:

Could little W have choked on a dice??

(Although I think, that couldn't have happened unnoticed by the sister or/and FGM.)

Yes… it is possible….

Scenario only: he had it in his mouth while running around the side of the house, and choked…. Real choking is silent… you can’t get air in or air out … so you can’t even yell for help…. And no one would have seen or heard him if he was around the side of the house …

So it is possible along with any other accident…

MOO

 

[InFocus]

Sadly FG, it only takes a split second and a child can go from playing to dead…. the way they hit their head or their neck etc…

As unbelievable as that sounds, it does happen… just like a motor vehicle accident can be a split second error …. And lives are irrevocably changed …

IMO

There could've even been a scenario of William hitting his head on a rock or concrete falling from his bike into the garden.

What's always been curious to me is the FFGM said MFC wanted to be early to the chemist etc, checking on the times it opened. However, I've read that he ends up being late leaving the house, despite being up early enough, why would he then be rushed?

Again because the times are all over the shop (Overington states he left at 8:40ish) no wonder the investigators have a problem sorting out a true timeline. It's like a washing machine of information swirling around on spin cycle.

 

[LolaAngelina]

Depends on how you dispose of a body.

ConsiderIng they drained the creek and searched the area extensively, l think we can be assured they would have found him if attempted to be disposed by FM. She isn’t a hit man, she hasn’t done this before. How far down can a normal strength female (or person) dig in 20-25 minutes? If dumping him in a creek, he would have to be weighed down. Where is she getting these items? Where is her shovel?

 

[SLouTh]

There could've even been a scenario of William hitting his head on a rock or concrete falling from his bike into the garden.

What's always been curious to me is the FFGM said MFC wanted to be early to the chemist etc, checking on the times it opened. However, I've read that he ends up being late leaving the house, despite being up early enough, why would he then be rushed?

Again because the times are all over the shop (Overington states he left at 8:40ish) no wonder the investigators have a problem sorting out a true timeline. It's like a washing machine of information swirling around on spin cycle.

Yes, agree and great analogy with the washing machine! Made me smile…

Fortunately Police have the actual statements and can verify them against other data…. Like CCTV, bank records, phone records etc etc

And unfortunately we don’t have access to the same data, and have to go by what is reported …

imo

 

[deugirtni]

View attachment 408943It is possible to see the small dice in his right hand!

Imoo, I don't believe that is a dice in W's hand. I have always thought it to be his picking at the deteriorating varnish on the deck boards.. a flaky flat piece of dried, brittle varnish.

 

[deugirtni]

I know the following is correct for QlD, but I assume NSW is similar…..

When you foster, you have a legal responsibility to document the child’s life…. With photos and written information every week, on what they did etc …. As a baby, you have to document daily ….Capture milestones etc … the department requests lots of details …

Yes the department wants some gorgeous “scrapbook” type feature photos but they also want everyday photos….

In QlD the department keeps these records for the child …. And presents them with their life story when they turn 18 ….

So yes I do agree the “photo books” were a form of documentation of the children's lives… however I am not convinced about the “naughty” part… but that is just my own opinion…

MOO

Agreed that foster parents are expected to take photos for the child's scrapbook, which would presumably include everyday photos.. but.. here we have little W who is 3 1/4 years old, who has reportedly not visited his Nana's house for at least 7 months, and his grandfather is deceased.. I would expect there would be much more opportune photo opportunities, such as enjoying breakfast with Nana, riding his new bike down the driveway, trying to climb a tree, just sitting/chatting with his nana (ie get some photos in with her while she is still available), running around on the expansive lawn with his new Spiderman costume, etc. It seems in the pics that were taken, he was not really drawing/coloring, but dropping the crayons, picking at the varnish, 'roaring' like a tiger apparently, .. what I would, imo, classify more as attention seeking type behaviors. Why take photos of that? That has always been a mystery to me. imo.

 

[Marg944]

coming up for court on Mar 15 at 9:30am for bail review and 'other' mention

I wonder if this is Bail Review and Mention regarding the MFC charges of lying to the NSWCC?

In February this year it was reported that a hearing for this matter was set down for March, but was "pushed back", and the March hearing was to be vacated. However, it looks like the Bail Review and Mention are going ahead tomorrow.

Article from Feb 13, 2023
"The 55-year-old man, who cannot be named for legal reasons, has pleaded not guilty to one charge of lying or misleading NSW Crime Commission officials and was due to face a hearing in March.

The commission was examining William’s disappearance.

Sydney’s Downing Centre Local Court was on Monday told the hearing would have to be pushed back until he faced a different hearing at Parramatta Local Court.

Magistrate Theo Tsavdaridis allowed the March hearing to be vacated."

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/courts-law/update-in-william-tyrrell-foster-dads-case-of-allegedly-lying-to-the-nsw-crime-commission/news-story/ad5eec5a992408391ed19e05be83b878

 

[deugirtni]

The court listing number is the same as was in January 2023. I would assume it relates to the lying to NSWCC case that was put back to later this year. Magically within the last 10 minutes, it's been pulled from the daily court lists...

The court listing number showing today is one of the same cases that was listed in January, along with the other court listing number which was regarding the lying to NSWCC case. The case number showing right now is a different matter, (possibly the abuse allegation?)

I am still seeing all of the listings (4 of them, all for same case number, with different dates) as of right now on the court listings.

 

[iiiii's]

Now that I think about it, I find FFC explanation of photographing WT mid roar a bit odd. In the series of 5 photos we can see that in 3 of them, the photographer has got down to ground level, most likely by stepping off the patio. There was a lot of hoo ha on SMS about WT looking at someone in the last shot. FCM gave an explanation that she had to crouch down at a really weird angle to get that shot whilst telling WT to look up at her. To my mind , seeing the context of the 5 photos, her explanation doesn't really ring true, he could just be looking off in the distance, mid growl. Why the sensetivity about how the photo was taken?