Australia Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) - #74

[SLouTh]

However, if a poll was taken on: Is William looking at someone other than the person taking the photo, yes or no?

No


And I agree with CouldBe about a natural reflex along with head tipping back when your mouth opens wide….and your eyes do deviate to the right …

It seems to be a natural reflex that when the mouth is flung open wide ...that the eyes automatically look up and to the right! JMO

Great post @InFocus ….

 

[Chrissy74]

the timeline may have been clearer - or, at least not seeming to have been written in stone for it to then fall apart during inquest, and remain a mystery 7.5 8.5 years later (has it really been that long????????!!!!). So much weight was put on those photos and the timing and the proof of life, etc., but possibly erroneously. imo.

Newest thought, suddenly:

Could little W have choked on a dice??

(Although I think, that couldn't have happened unnoticed by the sister or/and FGM.

In photo 5 of the sequence Does W have something in his mouth? I think he does. Photo 6 the iconic photo of W looks like W is opening his mouth to show what’s inside. The positioning of his eyes looking up , his eyebrows pushed up high and his tongue curled back behind his little teeth. If there was something in Ws mouth it wasn’t there when the last photo was taken. Could W have choked and died within only a few minutes the last photo at 9:37?

 

[Chrissy74]

You are quite possibly right InFocus.

I have had another thought: If the FFC had asked William to open his mouth wide because she thought that he had put something in his mouth. It seems to be a natural reflex that when the mouth is flung open wide ...that the eyes automatically look up and to the right! JMO

You felt my vibe Coulbe.
I just posted the exact same thought.
It certainly does seem that way.

 

[InFocus]

I should also make the observation in order to help determine if FFC is at the same level as William (that is not awkwardly crouched over) you must look at the full photo. That is, no cropped versions as this automatically changes perception. The original image shows the full right foot of FFGM, however, when you look through various news articles over the years, the photo is often cropped. You will also notice that in the background William's sister is not on any odd angle in the photo, which again also helps to suggest she took the photo at ground level in a normal manner. That William is distracted by someone else.

Obviously, this is just my opinion, neither right or wrong just giving those who might not be familiar with the more technical aspects of a photo (clues to look for)

 

[SLouTh]

In picture #1105 (15secs prior to famous photo) William has a green crayon in his hand …. I am not sure he would add a dice to his mouth right then … if he was holding the dice at that time, rather than the crayon, then yes maybe????…….. JMO … Doesn’t mean I don't think it may have happened soon after….

 

[Megnut]

This is a great question posed by @Detective Willy …..

Still to this day, I don’t think we actually know why, (as in, any evidence) the Police have turned their focus to FM and it has been quite some time since the announcement was made in 2021……

I was hunting around in some media articles, and the best I can come up with is “new information“, “fresh details”, and “uncovered clues not previously explored” …..see links below…..

My question, and I am interested in your thoughts on this new information…

My personal opinion, is not that someone has come forward.…

But perhaps there was new technological data that had come to light??? or some data that needed further investigation??

What do you think the “trigger” may have been for the change in focus???



Links :

Detectives in September announced that new information about William’s disappearance had “come to light.”

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/new-police-searches-for-william-tyrrells-remains/news-story/92d7cec6ea0bdf247ecf5c217937fe22

The Daily Telegraph reports the investigation has reverted to focus on a suspect previously ruled out by detectives.

The suspect will be interviewed soon and confronted with fresh details discovered by investigators.

It shines a totally new complexion on what investigators believe happened to William,’’ a senior police officer told The Daily Telegraph.

A new investigation into William’s disappearance has uncovered clues previously not explored, a senior police officer has told The Daily Telegraph.

No Cookies | Daily Telegraph

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www.dailytelegraph.com.au

Darren Bennett:
This is in relation to information we have received, no doubt about that. There is an investigative review that has been undertaken as an ongoing process but there is also new evidence,” he said.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/breaking-news/nsw-detectives-to-renew-search-for-missing-boy-william-tyrrell/news-story/09f79b307ae14a882a93a144a9123785

Disclaimer: FM may no longer be a POI … and Police just haven’t advised the pubic as yet ….. as seen in previous “episodes“ in this case…

Sibling might be just old enough to recall for herself.

JMO

 

[Chrissy74]

In picture #1105 (15secs prior to famous photo) William has a green crayon in his hand …. I am not sure he would add a dice to his mouth right then … if he was holding the dice at that time, rather than the crayon, then maybe????…….. JMO …

Maybe my eyes are playing tricks Slouth but sure Looks to me like there is something in Ws mouth right side. Something big enough to slightly keep his mouth ajar

 

[Chrissy74]

In picture #1105 (15secs prior to famous photo) William has a green crayon in his hand …. I am not sure he would add a dice to his mouth right then … if he was holding the dice at that time, rather than the crayon, then yes maybe????…….. JMO … Doesn’t mean I don't think it may have happened soon after….

What if W sneakily took the dice and hid it in his mouth. There were 2min plus in between photos 4 & 5. Plenty of time while others are momentarily distracted doesn’t know what to do with the dice once he’s taken it and so puts it in his mouth. It definitely looks like there is something in his mouth

 

[SLouTh]

Maybe my eyes are playing tricks Slouth but sure Looks to me like there is something in Ws mouth right side. Something big enough to slightly keep his mouth ajar

I have been trying not to get into this photo debate as my eyes are not that good…. I need an electron microscope to see these things…. Haha …

Certainly could be correct.. I just can’t see the fine details well enough to make a definite call on it ..

IMO

 

[SLouTh]

I should also make the observation in order to help determine if FFC is at the same level as William (that is not awkwardly crouched over) you must look at the full photo. That is, no cropped versions as this automatically changes perception. The original image shows the full right foot of FFGM, however, when you look through various news articles over the years, the photo is often cropped. You will also notice that in the background William's sister is not on any odd angle in the photo, which again also helps to suggest she took the photo at ground level in a normal manner. That William is distracted by someone else.

Obviously, this is just my opinion, neither right or wrong just giving those who might not be familiar with the more technical aspects of a photo (clues to look for)

Do you mean this photo??? As the original????

 

[InFocus]

Do you mean this photo??? As the original????

Yes

 

[Megnut]

In picture #1105 (15secs prior to famous photo) William has a green crayon in his hand …. I am not sure he would add a dice to his mouth right then … if he was holding the dice at that time, rather than the crayon, then maybe????…….. JMO …

The die has been my primary theory for several threads now.

Consider: very active boy, atypical environment. Foster daughter, easy. Crayons and paper may entertain her quietly for hours. Wm, busy. We love that about him, but not everyone is equipped for that.

He's 3. The mouth is a pocket. Especially if your Spiderman ensemble has none.

So... we learn that Wm isn't good at rolling dice. He'd rather throw them. One might choose then to take away the dice and engage him elsewise. ME, I'd have encouraged people-zoomies, in the backyard where I could see him. Wear him out.

Now, if said adult did try to remove the dice, a clever little klepto might go for the mouth vault.

How many dice were recovered? Did anyone ever compare that to how many may have been in play?

Because the next series of events may have been most unfortunate, and not predictable.

If Wm ran from the deck with a die in his mouth, if Wm even attempted a cry or a roar or an exclamation of any kind, the die could have been sucked in on the precipitating inhale.

Still, that alone to me would warrant desperate aid. Unless no one went after him for several long minutes in which case the silence would be the alert.

If Wm died from choking unattended on a die, and you had been taking photos just prior, of him throwing dice and potentially pocketing one behind his baby teeth, and you didn't remove the deadly die from his mouth, would you describe those photos as Wm's last moments with the die that killed him? (I mean if you were going to conceal and lie about his death.) Or would you. attach a different story to those photos? We were playing and happy and safe and roaring....

I don't think there was an intentional death here at all. But I do think the pressure to hide it was gargantuan.

JMO

 

[Chrissy74]

Yes

This is the original Slouth. Look at the right side of his mouth

 

[SLouTh]

What if W sneakily took the dice and hid it in his mouth. There were 2min plus in between photos 4 & 5. Plenty of time while others are momentarily distracted doesn’t know what to do with the dice once he’s taken it and so puts it in his mouth. It definitely looks like there is something in his mouth

Chrissy the problem is I have an image in my head, and have been trying to work out where I have seen it?

However I don’t have a link as yet…. so all MOO

But IIRC the die was a large die and it was red, large like the size of a Chubba Chup….. maybe 2cm square??
However please don’t take this as gospel until I can find the image or link info….

So to me, there would be a big bulge in his cheek … but again JMO

 

[Chrissy74]

The die has been my primary theory for several threads now.

Consider: very active boy, atypical environment. Foster daughter, easy. Crayons and paper may entertain her quietly for hours. Wm, busy. We love that about him, but not everyone is equipped for that.

He's 3. The mouth is a pocket. Especially if your Spiderman ensemble has none.

So... we learn that Wm isn't good at rolling dice. He'd rather throw them. One might choose then to take away the dice and engage him elsewise. ME, I'd have encouraged people-zoomies, in the backyard where I could see him. Wear him out.

Now, if said adult did try to remove the dice, a clever little klepto might go for the mouth vault.

How many dice were recovered? Did anyone ever compare that to how many may have been in play?

Because the next series of events may have been most unfortunate, and not predictable.

If Wm ran from the deck with a die in his mouth, if Wm even attempted a cry or a roar or an exclamation of any kind, the die could have been sucked in on the precipitating inhale.

Still, that alone to me would warrant desperate aid. Unless no one went after him for several long minutes in which case the silence would be the alert.

If Wm died from choking unattended on a die, and you had been taking photos just prior, of him throwing dice and potentially pocketing one behind his baby teeth, and you didn't remove the deadly die from his mouth, would you describe those photos as Wm's last moments with the die that killed him? (I mean if you were going to conceal and lie about his death.) Or would you. attach a different story to those photos? We were playing and happy and safe and roaring....

I don't think there was an intentional death here at all. But I do think the pressure to hide it was gargantuan.

JMO

Ffc has L tipping the container upside down and dice rolling out some time after the drawing finishes. which is odd considering crayons were already scattered on the patio in all 5 photos.

 

[Chrissy74]

Chrissy the problem is I have an image in my head, and have been trying to work out where I have seen it?

However I don’t have a link as yet…. so all MOO

But IIRC the dice was a large dice and it was red, large like the size of a Chubba Chup….. maybe 2cm square??
However please don’t take this as gospel until I can find the image or link info….

So to me, there would be a big bulge in his cheek … but again JMO

Would never do that Slouth.
But def looks like he is biting on something in between his upper and lower teeth big enough to keep them slightly open. The dice is in between his teeth not pushed against the side of his mouth

 

[SLouTh]

The die has been my primary theory for several threads now.

Yes it most certainly has Meg…..

Still, that alone to me would warrant desperate aid. Unless no one went after him for several long minutes in which case the silence would be the alert.

Interesting point considering, it was too much “silence” that triggered the alarm for the FM ….

I also tried to explain the physiology of choking and the silence earlier today… choking is a silent injury …

Post in thread 'Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) - #74'
Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) - #74

There is always the truth and usually it is in the story somewhere… IMO

I personally hope that it (whatever actually happened) was faster than choking to death on a die, for William’s sake…. IMO

 

[Chrissy74]

Yes it most certainly has Meg…..


Interesting point considering, it was too much “silence” that triggered the alarm for the FM ….

I also tried to explain the physiology of choking and the silence earlier today… choking is a silent injury …

Post in thread 'Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) - #74'
Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) - #74

There is always the truth and usually it is in the story somewhere… IMO

I personally hope that it (whatever actually happened) was faster than choking to death on a die, for William’s sake…. IMO

Same

 

[deugirtni]

Questions:-

During the 2 mins between the two photos ... did he turn away from the FFC (with his mouth open) ready to put the dice into his mouth?

Did FFC then step back down to face him.... and say to him 'Give me that dice'?
Was he saying 'Nooo' (Not roaring) when 15 secs later she snapped that iconic photo?

Was he opening his mouth wide upon request (of perhaps FM) to show that he had nothing in his mouth? Was he being a joker and pretending to FM that he had swallowed the dice, just to bug her (or was he too young for that type of antic?)?

I'm not personally convinced the dice are still out and in the photos at all, but maybe whoever is thinking possibly something happened with choking on the dice is onto something? But then I ask myself, but why not call 000?

Kids can do things so quickly, they were perhaps playing with the dice at the time, if he was a cheeky boy as has been said, he easily could've put it in his mouth before his caretakers could take it from him if they saw him starting to put it up to his mouth. To me, that is not the same kind of supervision requirement as making sure a child doesn't go out onto a high balcony with risk of falling.

IOW, I can see a reason for hiding a situation where W may have fallen from that balcony because I would assume the other child would be removed from the home.. but I don't see it as the same type of negligence or whatever one may wish to call it, if something happened very quickly with a dice they were playing with at the time. All those toys with little pieces say 'not for children under 3', and W was past that. Etc.

Also, as others have mentioned, FGM and W's sister would've been aware of it if he'd choked on a dice.. imho.

 

[Megnut]

Was he opening his mouth wide upon request (of perhaps FM) to show that he had nothing in his mouth? Was he being a joker and pretending to FM that he had swallowed the dice, just to bug her (or was he too young for that type of antic?)?

I'm not personally convinced the dice are still out and in the photos at all, but maybe whoever is thinking possibly something happened with choking on the dice is onto something? But then I ask myself, but why not call 000?

Kids can do things so quickly, they were perhaps playing with the dice at the time, if he was a cheeky boy as has been said, he easily could've put it in his mouth before his caretakers could take it from him if they saw him starting to put it up to his mouth. To me, that is not the same kind of supervision requirement as making sure a child doesn't go out onto a high balcony with risk of falling.

IOW, I can see a reason for hiding a situation where W may have fallen from that balcony because I would assume the other child would be removed from the home.. but I don't see it as the same type of negligence or whatever one may wish to call it, if something happened very quickly with a dice they were playing with at the time. All those toys with little pieces say 'not for children under 3', and W was past that. Etc.

Also, as others have mentioned, FGM and W's sister would've been aware of it if he'd choked on a dice.. imho.

I have the same questions.

But if he ran around the aide of the house and choked out of anyone's sight, there would only have been silence. If there was a scream, you'd think it would've been from her, upon discovery. If he was out of sight for even five minutes...

Still you'd think 911 and desperation to attempt CPR, Heimlich, anything --

Perhaps two things occurred nearly simultaneously-- while running, he choked, then struggling somehow in a precarious situation went over the rail. Hardly seems possible.

Seems like a stretch that an adult could see a child, dead by choking, immediately assess the situation, opt against 911 and aid, decide that people will blame her for being an irresponsible caretaker (for letting him run with small pieces?) and launch an immediate cover up. But if that's what happened here, once she made that decision, the rest probably came easier --

Thought process like this: It was an accident, I didn't mean for it to happen, I'm a good caretaker, don't take my other child away from me, he could have just as easily been abducted. Let's go with that.

JMO