Australia Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) #77

[Megnut]

My Big Red Flag -- not alerting the foster grandmother and foster daughter before she left on the drive to keep an eye out for Wm, to call her if he came home, and not to let the foster daughter out of her sight.

JMO

 

[Couldbe]

My Big Red Flag -- not alerting the foster grandmother and foster daughter before she left on the drive to keep an eye out for Wm, to call her if he came home, and not to let the foster daughter out of her sight.

JMO

JMO - A really good point Megnut.

On that point, I wonder if FM did tell the FGM that she was taking the Mazda and going for a drive;
BUT for reasons known to themselves, the decision was made not to tell LE about it.
AND that was able to be upheld ... until FM learned that a witness who saw her had come forward about seeing the Mazda (And maybe the FM or FGM in it), so then the drive by the FM was declared to LE. MOO

 

[FromGermany1]

My Big Red Flag -- not alerting the foster grandmother and foster daughter before she left on the drive to keep an eye out for Wm, to call her if he came home, and not to let the foster daughter out of her sight.

JMO

bbm
^^ That! Especially, if FFC had "abduction" on her mind from the start.

 

[FromGermany1]

The service was unreliable, couldbe. Locals complained about it. Sometimes calls and texts would go through, sometimes they wouldn't.
It is not just a matter of them being in a black spot. It wasn't a complete black spot. It had unreliable mobile services in 2014.

imo

Amazing is, the MFC had known about the complete "black spot", but sent a text 5 minutes before returning from his Zoom meeting to tell his wife, he would soon be back. He expected it to go through. AND this text could be received by his wife within the "black spot"! Oops!!

 

[nightrider17]

I know we have discussed it before but....


The original photo that was circulated to show the public for TV coverage was a photo of WT from childcare where he had some faded bruising under his eye. Just my opinion on my remembering.

Just curious why this photo - first off and not the photos from the camera - which were of him that morning?? and showing the clothes he was wearing. IMO

Who would decide this??

Perhaps this did give FM time to manipulate the timings on the camera. If she considered releasing those photos taken that morning and remembering that they were taken at Just my opinion - just a possibility??7.39 am.

Could she have decided to change it to 9.37 at that point (is it even possible???)JMO

It would then sync in more with what the FGM said inadvertently 3 there for breakfast then corrected to 4. And she also said after washing up they went on the verandah and that's where it all happened, seemingly not mentioning bike riding and phone calls from repairmen. Just don't know what to make of the FGM rendition - dismiss it totally or is there relevant elements.???? JMO

What is the advantage to them of not saying the photo is done at 7.39. IMO

1. To ensure that FF is not there when photo is taken - 7.39 he would be 9.37 he wouldn't - why would they need that??? Just considering the possibility.

2. 9.37 closer to the time they reported him missing - so less time for them to do any coverups. 7.39 gives them a extra 2 hours. IMO.

 

[JLZ]

It would then sync in more with what the FGM said inadvertently 3 there for breakfast then corrected to 4. And she also said after washing up they went on the verandah and that's where it all happened, seemingly not mentioning bike riding and phone calls from repairmen. Just don't know what to make of the FGM rendition - dismiss it totally or is there relevant elements.???? JMO

I'm also uncertain what to make of FGM's story.

I was thinking about this the other day when I was reading an ABC article about drunk rape victims not being believed because they forget some parts of what happened. There were experiments done simulating the early stages of a rape encounter, and it was found that drunk people had gaps in their memories, but about what they said they remembered, they were just as accurate as non-drunk people. Obviously that's not directly applicable to FGM, I've no reason to think she was drunk, but I wonder if I've been too dismissive about what she said because (it seems to me) there are great gaps in her recollection. Perhaps she's reliable about the parts that she says she does recall. --The nuisance is, what we really need is sequence and timing.

 

[SLouTh]

Just curious why this photo - first off and not the photos from the camera - which were of him that morning?? and showing the clothes he was wearing. IMO

Who would decide this??

Hi Nightrider,

That particular photo was used because William was in foster care at the time of his disappearance, it was FACS that provided the photo to the Police for that initial release. That particular photo was the most recent one on William’s case file at the time …. (If a child in care goes missing, FACS still hold all the power as to what photos etc are released …and Police have to liaise with them )

After Michelle White, arrived in Kendall, one of her first jobs was to find a better photo of William, for release by the Police ..

IMO

 

[iiiii's]

Hi Nightrider,

That particular photo was used because William was in foster care at the time of his disappearance, it was FACS that provided the photo to the Police for that initial release. That particular photo was the most recent one on William’s case file at the time …. (If a child in care goes missing, FACS still hold all the power as to what photos etc are released …and Police have to liaise with them )

After Michelle White, arrived in Kendall, one of her first jobs was to find a better photo of William, for release by the Police ..

IMO

bbm


The same Michelle White as these 2 articles below that has described the FFC as a long time friend, co worker?? Was this Michelle White making decisions on behalf of FACS at the beginning of the investigation?

William Tyrrell's foster father allegedly put hands around girl's neck

William Tyrrell's foster mum's comment to crying child

A woman who removed a child from William Tyrrell's former foster parents' care says the crying child was told it was not their fault as they hugged their foster mother goodbye.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[SouthAussie]

I'm also uncertain what to make of FGM's story.

I was thinking about this the other day when I was reading an ABC article about drunk rape victims not being believed because they forget some parts of what happened. There were experiments done simulating the early stages of a rape encounter, and it was found that drunk people had gaps in their memories, but about what they said they remembered, they were just as accurate as non-drunk people. Obviously that's not directly applicable to FGM, I've no reason to think she was drunk, but I wonder if I've been too dismissive about what she said because (it seems to me) there are great gaps in her recollection. Perhaps she's reliable about the parts that she says she does recall. --The nuisance is, what we really need is sequence and timing.

There are many articles and studies out there about the unreliability of "eyewitness" evidence. How people can witness the same event and have different retelling of the details of that event.

Factors that play into that include stress and trauma, different life experiences, different biases, different focus, and varying memory recall - including false memories.

Some studies say that 1 in 4 wrongful convictions are due to inaccurate eyewitness evidence, other studies say 70% of proven wrongful convictions are due to inaccurate eyewitness evidence.

Yet all studies say that judges and juries take eyewitness evidence as accurate.

imo (with a few links ... Link ... Link ... Link)

 

[JLZ]

There are many articles and studies out there about the unreliability of "eyewitness" evidence. How people can witness the same event and have different retelling of the details of that event.

Factors that play into that include stress and trauma, different life experiences, different biases, different focus, and varying memory recall - including false memories.

Some studies say that 1 in 4 wrongful convictions are due to inaccurate eyewitness evidence, other studies say 70% of proven wrongful convictions are due to inaccurate eyewitness evidence.

Yet all studies say that judges and juries take eyewitness evidence as accurate.

imo (with a few links ... Link ... Link ... Link)

I've recommended this book before, although it's getting old now. Expensive so try a library perhaps.

Memory in the Real World eBook : Cohen, Gillian, Conway, Martin A.: Amazon.com.au: Kindle Store

Memory in the Real World eBook : Cohen, Gillian, Conway, Martin A.: Amazon.com.au: Kindle Store

www.amazon.com.au

 

[drsleuth]

Has anyone seen the full video walk thru of the FGM?

 

[SouthAussie]

I've recommended this book before, although it's getting old now. Expensive so try a library perhaps.

Memory in the Real World eBook : Cohen, Gillian, Conway, Martin A.: Amazon.com.au: Kindle Store

Memory in the Real World eBook : Cohen, Gillian, Conway, Martin A.: Amazon.com.au: Kindle Store

www.amazon.com.au

Thanks, Wish I had seen your reply before I just went to the library.
That book is even $86.95 on Kindle! Will check the library next time I am there.

 

[iiiii's]

The same Michelle White as these 2 articles below that has described the FFC as a long time friend, co worker?? Was this Michelle White making decisions on behalf of FACS at the beginning of the investigation?

William Tyrrell's foster father allegedly put hands around girl's neck

The kick was revisited on Thursday when former Salvation Army Captain and family friend Michelle White told the court that SD confided in her after the alleged assault.

Ms White described the foster mother as 'forthcoming' and that she acknowledged that she 'at times has not lived up to her own expectations' of being a mother.

According to the statement Ms White gave to police after the kick, the foster mother said she was ‘ashamed' of what she had done, admitting that she had 'lost it' at the time.

Ms White then asked if the kick had left a visible mark and the foster mother said it had not.

William Tyrrell's foster mum's comment to crying child

A woman who removed a child from William Tyrrell's former foster parents' care says the crying child was told it was not their fault as they hugged their foster mother goodbye.

www.dailymail.co.uk

unnamed in this article

The foster mother's co-worker and friend of more than a decade recalled a distressed phone call in which the parent reported kicking the youth after they tried to trip the younger foster child.

'I questioned that a bit and she said: 'No, I kicked (them) really hard,'' she told the court.

The friend described the foster mother as an ethical person with a lot of integrity who was extremely resilient and intent on providing a safe and secure home.

Mr Stratton asked if the foster mother sounded upset when she reported kicking the child.

'She was distraught,' her friend responded.


From Slouth, 1.03pm today rsbm, bbm

That particular photo was used because William was in foster care at the time of his disappearance, it was FACS that provided the photo to the Police for that initial release. That particular photo was the most recent one on William’s case file at the time …. (If a child in care goes missing, FACS still hold all the power as to what photos etc are released …and Police have to liaise with them )

After Michelle White, arrived in Kendall, one of her first jobs was to find a better photo of William, for release by the Police ..

 

[k-mac]

The service was unreliable, couldbe. Locals complained about it. Sometimes calls and texts would go through, sometimes they wouldn't.
It is not just a matter of them being in a black spot. It wasn't a complete black spot. It had unreliable mobile services in 2014.

imo

yes ...conveniently......


moo

 

[iiiii's]

Hi Nightrider,

That particular photo was used because William was in foster care at the time of his disappearance, it was FACS that provided the photo to the Police for that initial release. That particular photo was the most recent one on William’s case file at the time …. (If a child in care goes missing, FACS still hold all the power as to what photos etc are released …and Police have to liaise with them )

After Michelle White, arrived in Kendall, one of her first jobs was to find a better photo of William, for release by the Police ..

IMO

Where is the quote about Michelle White from please Slouth?

 

[SouthAussie]

The kick was revisited on Thursday when former Salvation Army Captain and family friend Michelle White told the court that SD confided in her after the alleged assault.

Ms White described the foster mother as 'forthcoming' and that she acknowledged that she 'at times has not lived up to her own expectations' of being a mother.

According to the statement Ms White gave to police after the kick, the foster mother said she was ‘ashamed' of what she had done, admitting that she had 'lost it' at the time.

Ms White then asked if the kick had left a visible mark and the foster mother said it had not.

unnamed in this article

The foster mother's co-worker and friend of more than a decade recalled a distressed phone call in which the parent reported kicking the youth after they tried to trip the younger foster child.

'I questioned that a bit and she said: 'No, I kicked (them) really hard,'' she told the court.

The friend described the foster mother as an ethical person with a lot of integrity who was extremely resilient and intent on providing a safe and secure home.

Mr Stratton asked if the foster mother sounded upset when she reported kicking the child.

'She was distraught,' her friend responded.


From Slouth, 1.03pm today rsbm, bbm

That particular photo was used because William was in foster care at the time of his disappearance, it was FACS that provided the photo to the Police for that initial release. That particular photo was the most recent one on William’s case file at the time …. (If a child in care goes missing, FACS still hold all the power as to what photos etc are released …and Police have to liaise with them )

After Michelle White, arrived in Kendall, one of her first jobs was to find a better photo of William, for release by the Police ..

Geez, did the police even report the 2nd assault to DCJ, or did FM report it herself?

 

[Chrissy74]

The kick was revisited on Thursday when former Salvation Army Captain and family friend Michelle White told the court that SD confided in her after the alleged assault.

Ms White described the foster mother as 'forthcoming' and that she acknowledged that she 'at times has not lived up to her own expectations' of being a mother.

According to the statement Ms White gave to police after the kick, the foster mother said she was ‘ashamed' of what she had done, admitting that she had 'lost it' at the time.

Ms White then asked if the kick had left a visible mark and the foster mother said it had not.

unnamed in this article

The foster mother's co-worker and friend of more than a decade recalled a distressed phone call in which the parent reported kicking the youth after they tried to trip the younger foster child.

'I questioned that a bit and she said: 'No, I kicked (them) really hard,'' she told the court.

The friend described the foster mother as an ethical person with a lot of integrity who was extremely resilient and intent on providing a safe and secure home.

Mr Stratton asked if the foster mother sounded upset when she reported kicking the child.

'She was distraught,' her friend responded.


From Slouth, 1.03pm today rsbm, bbm

That particular photo was used because William was in foster care at the time of his disappearance, it was FACS that provided the photo to the Police for that initial release. That particular photo was the most recent one on William’s case file at the time …. (If a child in care goes missing, FACS still hold all the power as to what photos etc are released …and Police have to liaise with them )

After Michelle White, arrived in Kendall, one of her first jobs was to find a better photo of William, for release by the Police ..

Am I reading this right? Michelle White former Salvation Army Captain Co worker/friend of the Ffc.

 

[iiiii's]

Am I reading this right? Michelle White is a former Salvation Army Captain and Co worker/friend of the Ffc.

Unless it's another Michelle White

 

[iiiii's]

Geez, did the police even report the 2nd assault to DCJ, or did FM report it herself?

Or it could be asked, did Michelle White report the assault to appropriate authorities? If FM reported it herself, I'm sure her solicitor would have made much of her self reporting and there wouldn't have been any wondering if the child had been bruised from a horse riding accident.

 

[SouthAussie]

Or it could be asked, did Michelle White report the assault to appropriate authorities? If FM reported it herself, I'm sure her solicitor would have made much of her self reporting and there wouldn't have been any wondering if the child had been bruised from a horse riding accident.

I think she probably did, which is why she calls FM ethical.
One thing I noticed back in an article is that the prosecutor said that the police met with DCJ, not that they reported the matter to DCJ.

They could have met once they heard FM report the matter to DCJ. imo

I will go back and find the link and add it.
I can't find the exact link yet, but this one says how Lonergan testified that the police didn't tell DCJ because they were monitoring the situation. Link