Australia Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) #79

[bfew]

I think it's v. important in regards to what she has told people what happened in the 1st couple of days and in contradicting statements she has made later publicly and to the police. Every detail surrounding WT's disappearance needs to be examined and nailed down as best as can be expected. MOO

It might be used to try and establish a propensity to lie about what happened.

 

[SouthAussie]

I really find the 'who made the tea' thing very trivial.
If I was sitting with my mother and not having to rush off I might enjoy a couple of cups of tea which either one of us or a combination of us might make.
The process of making tea is usually more than one step and who actually 'makes' it is arguable. Who put the kettle on? Who poured and let it brew? Who actually puts in the milk and perhaps sugar and delivered it? At what point in the process can you pinpoint William as actually missing?
One could be in and out between each step or one could start it and one could finish it, he was playing and running around and then nothing. Not sure why so many are hung up on it being a huge discrepancy in the story.
Actually my mother would probably make it all, in a pot, because she says I make terrible tea and it has to be made a certain way.
Information which is as useless and trivial as this whole 'who made the tea' argument is. Did they have a biscuit I wonder?

Yes, I think it is unimportant in the grand scale of things.

I was more interested in the fact that this could be why Jubes says that sister was the last person to see William. And as we know, she said he went to look for daddy's car.

I have often wondered where sister was, when she last saw William. Why she didn't know more about how he disappeared (as in, did a car pick him up, was he talking to a stranger, did he walk down or up the street). But if the adults were inside - or in and out - she could have just been sitting on the back deck, or near the back deck.

(Though I have some sort of memory about sister saying she saw William running toward a vehicle. IIRC. I will have to go back and check the old threads.)

 

[SouthAussie]

It might be used to try and establish a propensity to lie about what happened.

Inconsistencies in memory are not abnormal for anyone who has experienced a traumatic event. Some people even have a whopping great hole where the memory should be. Doesn't mean they are lying. It is fragmentation or disorganisation of the memories following trauma.

There are a whole bunch of studies out there about it. Here is one example.


They further suggest that trauma narratives are characterized by sensory aspects, incoherence, and a lack of sequence, collectively referred to as fragmentation.

Is Trauma Memory Special? Trauma Narrative Fragmentation in PTSD: Effects of Treatment and Response - PMC.

 

[SouthAussie]

I was more interested in the fact that this could be why Jubes says that sister was the last person to see William. And as we know, she said he went to look for daddy's car.

(Though I have some sort of memory about sister saying she saw William running toward a vehicle. IIRC. I will have to go back and check the old threads.)

A bit more on this ^^^^ I went back and checked.


"The longer this goes on, the less likely it seems that anyone will find him. That makes me sick. I think about William's sister who is the last person known to have seen him alive.
She was 5 back then, a foster child like he was, and remembers that the two of them were playing a game of tigers on the lawn beneath the house, out of sight of the adults."
Source: Badness by Gary Jubelin and Dan Box, chapter A White Button in the Darkness Link


'Oh, okay. And you said that he went off to find Daddy's car? How do you know he went off to find Daddy's car?'

"William’s sister had also told detectives in her interview that she saw William running towards “daddy’s car” before he vanished. Link

 

[iiiii's]

Inconsistencies in memory are not abnormal for anyone who has experienced a traumatic event. Some people even have a whopping great hole where the memory should be. Doesn't mean they are lying. It is fragmentation or disorganisation of the memories following trauma.

There are a whole bunch of studies out there about it. Here is one example.


They further suggest that trauma narratives are characterized by sensory aspects, incoherence, and a lack of sequence, collectively referred to as fragmentation.

Is Trauma Memory Special? Trauma Narrative Fragmentation in PTSD: Effects of Treatment and Response - PMC.

Then the most honest reply throughout the years would have been, " These are all the details I remember, but I have no idea the order of those details." Instead of trying to sound definitive about what happened which has made her look dishonest over the years. That is if she suffers from fragmentation. MOO

 

[iiiii's]

A bit more on this ^^^^ I went back and checked.


"The longer this goes on, the less likely it seems that anyone will find him. That makes me sick. I think about William's sister who is the last person known to have seen him alive.
She was 5 back then, a foster child like he was, and remembers that the two of them were playing a game of tigers on the lawn beneath the house, out of sight of the adults."
Source: Badness by Gary Jubelin and Dan Box, chapter A White Button in the Darkness Link


'Oh, okay. And you said that he went off to find Daddy's car? How do you know he went off to find Daddy's car?'

"William’s sister had also told detectives in her interview that she saw William running towards “daddy’s car” before he vanished. Link

And the reply to his question was "I don't know". It is quite likely that she heard the FM asking WT if he saw Daddy's car just before he disappeared and she repeated it. MOO
bbm

 

[SouthAussie]

And the reply to his question was "I don't know". It is quite likely that she heard the FM asking WT if he saw Daddy's car just before he disappeared and she repeated it. MOO
bbm

How does anyone explain ... "William’s sister had also told detectives in her interview that she saw William running towards “daddy’s car” before he vanished"?

Whose car was daddy's car? Seeing that daddy was not yet back in Kendall.

I think it is likely that the sound of the vehicle coming up the street, turning, and going back down the street (heard by the Crabbs), along with sister's statement to detectives, is likely the reason why Laura Beacroft (and David Laidlaw) thought that William disappeared between 10:05 and 10:15.


10:05 - 10:15 : Detective Laura Beacroft thinks this time could be when WT went missing
10:10 - 10:15 : Laidlaw thinks this could be the time WT went missing Link

 

[SouthAussie]

Then the most honest reply throughout the years would have been, " These are all the details I remember, but I have no idea the order of those details." Instead of trying to sound definitive about what happened which has made her look dishonest over the years. That is if she suffers from fragmentation. MOO

I don't know if people who have a fragmented memory following trauma know that they have a fragmented memory.
Not unless there is some whopping big hole in their memory.

As stated in my previous link, fragmentation is characterised by sensory aspects, incoherence, and a lack of sequence. All of which apply to what we know.


Eg: If people do not recognize posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD) symptoms, they may not realize they are suffering from the disorder. Link

imo

 

[JLZ]

How does anyone explain ... "William’s sister had also told detectives in her interview that she saw William running towards “daddy’s car” before he vanished"?

Whose car was daddy's car? Seeing that daddy was not yet back in Kendall.

I think it is likely that the sound of the vehicle coming up the street, turning, and going back down the street (heard by the Crabbs), along with sister's statement to detectives, is likely the reason why Laura Beacroft (and David Laidlaw) thought that William disappeared between 10:05 and 10:15.


10:05 - 10:15 : Detective Laura Beacroft thinks this time could be when WT went missing
10:10 - 10:15 : Laidlaw thinks this could be the time WT went missing Link

My two cents is that Jubelin sometimes distorts the facts.

 

[SouthAussie]

My two cents is that Jubelin sometimes distorts the facts.

Did Gary Jubelin interview sister? I don't think so.

He testified - under oath - that was one of the red flags about Paul Savage. Unless you are suggesting he would "distort facts" under oath. Facts that can be checked by the judge.

The judge may not have liked that he went after PS, but I don't think Jubes lied under oath. He stated things as he knew them to be. imo


There were, Jubelin told the court, red flags.

William’s sister had also told detectives in her interview that she saw William running towards “daddy’s car” before he vanished .....

The ironic Prosecution of Gary Jubelin

 

[iiiii's]

Did Gary Jubelin interview sister? I don't think so.

He testified - under oath - that was one of the red flags about Paul Savage. Unless you are suggesting he would "distort facts" under oath. Facts that can be checked by the judge.

The judge may not have liked that he went after PS, but I don't think Jubes lied under oath. He stated things as he knew them to be. imo


There were, Jubelin told the court, red flags.

William’s sister had also told detectives in her interview that she saw William running towards “daddy’s car” before he vanished .....

The ironic Prosecution of Gary Jubelin

But this is a narrative written by an adult using some of the words that the child said, not her actual words. MOO

 

[JLZ]

Did Gary Jubelin interview sister? I don't think so.

He testified - under oath - that was one of the red flags about Paul Savage. Unless you are suggesting he would "distort facts" under oath. Facts that can be checked by the judge.

The judge may not have liked that he went after PS, but I don't think Jubes lied under oath. He stated things as he knew them to be. imo


There were, Jubelin told the court, red flags.

William’s sister had also told detectives in her interview that she saw William running towards “daddy’s car” before he vanished .....

The ironic Prosecution of Gary Jubelin

I'm not clear from that article (by GJ's & FFC's solicitor) that GJ told the court that the sister saw that. There's some switching back and forth in those paragraphs between what he 'told the court' and separate narrative.

Some extracts of what the sister told detectives have been made public. In those I've seen, the sister did not claim to see a car, and when asked could not give any reason as to why she thought William had gone to find daddy's car. Going to find a car is different from seeing it and running towards it. The sister did not imply that the car had actually arrived or come into sight or hearing. She did see which way William ran. I think to say she saw William running towards a car is a very loose gloss on what happened. It suited GJ to frame it this way when he was pursuing PS. Perhaps that's how the recollection stuck to him.

 

[SouthAussie]

But this is a narrative written by an adult using some of the words that the child said, not her actual words. MOO

Yes, by a person in the legal profession relaying testimony made under oath. But it doesn't fit the "FM did it" narrative. Sorry.

imo

 

[iiiii's]

Yes, by a person in the legal profession relaying testimony made under oath. But it doesn't fit the "FM did it" narrative. Sorry.

imo

That's right. It's just making stuff up to suit a stranger abduction narrative. I can't help if if the actual facts look like something other than that narrative, I can assure you, I am not gunning for the FM to have been responsible for WT's disappearance, however I will not ignore inconvenient facts that lead in her direction. IMO

 

[SouthAussie]

That's right. It's just making stuff up to suit a stranger abduction narrative. I can't help if if the actual facts look like something other than that narrative, I can assure you, I am not gunning for the FM to have been responsible for WT's disappearance, however I will not ignore inconvenient facts that lead in her direction. IMO

So far there is every indication that the Coroner is keeping an open mind to all of the various scenarios that may have happened. imo

 

[iiiii's]

So far there is every indication that the Coroner is keeping an open mind to all of the various scenarios that may have happened. imo

As she should. There is following the facts, following a theory based on the facts and then cherry picking facts to create a narrative. I feel confident the coroner can navigate her way through all these options that have been presented to her during the course of this inquiry. MOO

 

[SouthAussie]

... cherry picking facts to create a narrative ....

Agreed

 

[katydid23]

I think it's v. important in regards to what she has told people what happened in the 1st couple of days and in contradicting statements she has made later publicly and to the police. Every detail surrounding WT's disappearance needs to be examined and nailed down as best as can be expected. MOO

I think the point Wexford was making was that it's not necessarily conflicting information or contradictions in terms of who made the tea---one or both could have done so, and both versions could be true.

Maybe Fm and Fgm both step into the kitchen at one point--- one of them sets the kettle on the burner, the other goes back out to check on the kids....then 1 returns to get the cups and the tea and sugar ready.....later on 1 of them poured the water into the pot and waited while it brewed?

So essentially they both 'made the tea' and both may have looked out the windows at the kids or peeked out the door once or twice.

 

[drsleuth]

New episode up

Malicious Prosecution | 7

Podcast Episode · Witness: William Tyrrell · S2 E7 · 58m

podcasts.apple.com

 

[Wexford]

New episode up

Malicious Prosecution | 7

Podcast Episode · Witness: William Tyrrell · S2 E7 · 58m

podcasts.apple.com

Tony Jones!!!