Australia Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) #79

[SouthAussie]

How FACS missed all the warning signs is really concerning especially when the safety and wellbeing of children in their care is priority

I would venture to say - due to things like the police non-reporting, and the recent overturning by a higher court of an intimidation conviction against the FD - that the rest of the 1000s of hours of recordings showed nothing abnormal about the household.

The police obviously didn't feel things were 'bad enough' to report in January, or any other time. And only reported in November when they wanted to apply extreme pressure by bringing charges.

The child was used by the police as a pawn. It is pretty obvious. imo

 

[Chrissy74]

I would venture to say - due to things like the police non-reporting, and the recent overturning by a higher court of an intimidation conviction against the FD - that the rest of the 1000s of hours of recordings showed nothing abnormal about the household.

The police obviously didn't feel things were 'bad enough' to report in January, or any other time. And only reported in November when they wanted to apply extreme pressure by bringing charges.

The child was used by the police as a pawn. It is pretty obvious. imo

The NSWPF was tasked with investigating an alleged assault on a child after the child disclosed the assaults to her teacher and expressed her fear of going home. The teacher subsequently reported the allegations to the police. The fm kicked the child with such force that it left visible marks and bruises on her body. This constitutes an act of domestic violence against a child, and the police have a mandatory obligation to report such incidents. The incident occurred in October 2021, and in early November 2021, the police applied for an Apprehended Violence Order (AVO) on behalf of the child against the fp and the child was removed from their care (thank goodness). Days later police filed assault charges against the fm on behalf of the child and after denying the assault saying the child fell from a horse and after a failed attempt to have the case heard under the mental health act, the fm later pleaded guilty to the assault charges. The seriousness of the offence was only realised by police when it was reported by the child to her teacher. The seriousness being “physical assault resulting in bruising”. Maybe the child was fearful of reporting the physical and emotional abuse to someone in case the abuse by the fp was deemed “normal” and her courage to finally come forward and report it was out of fear for her safety. There is nothing “normal” about the pain and suffering L endured with a feeling of having no one to turn to because she’s a child in “state care”.

 

[drsleuth]

The NSWPF was tasked with investigating an alleged assault on a child after the child disclosed the assaults to her teacher and expressed her fear of going home. The teacher subsequently reported the allegations to the police. The fm kicked the child with such force that it left visible marks and bruises on her body. This constitutes an act of domestic violence against a child, and the police have a mandatory obligation to report such incidents. The incident occurred in October 2021, and in early November 2021, the police applied for an Apprehended Violence Order (AVO) on behalf of the child against the fp and the child was removed from their care (thank goodness). Days later police filed assault charges against the fm on behalf of the child and after denying the assault saying the child fell from a horse and after a failed attempt to have the case heard under the mental health act, the fm later pleaded guilty to the assault charges. The seriousness of the offence was only realised by police when it was reported by the child to her teacher. The seriousness being “physical assault resulting in bruising”. Maybe the child was fearful of reporting the physical and emotional abuse to someone in case the abuse by the fp was deemed “normal” and her courage to finally come forward and report it was out of fear for her safety. There is nothing “normal” about the pain and suffering L endured with a feeling of having no one to turn to because she’s a child in “state care”.

BBM : "This constitutes an act of domestic violence against a child, and the police have a mandatory obligation to report such incidents"

https://www.9news.com.au/national/child-scared-after-tyrrell-foster-dad-alleged-abuse/2b49303e-6226-46fa-876e-09d949502a90https://www.9news.com.au/national/child-scared-after-tyrrell-foster-dad-alleged-abuse/2b49303e-6226-46fa-876e-09d949502a90

The foster mother has pleaded guilty to hitting the child with a wooden spoon in January 2021 and kicking them in October but is fighting two intimidation charges over incidents between January and August that same year.

The police did nothing until 11 months later, so they failed in their mandatory obligations & were happy to keep the child in the same environment until apparently ( I can't find a link for this - if you have one that would be good ) their hands were tied when the teacher reported the abuse, is that correct??

So either the NSPF didn't think the "abuse" warranted a mandatory report & removing the child from the home or they did but were using her for their gain IMO

 

[SouthAussie]

The NSWPF was tasked with investigating an alleged assault on a child after the child disclosed the assaults to her teacher and expressed her fear of going home.

I am pretty sure the teacher saw the child was upset after the FD yelled at her in the car. The teacher did not think it was a huge deal. The child didn't want to go home that night. I don't think the child reported the previous assaults to her teacher? There was nothing for the teacher to report as a mandatory reporter.
Only the police knew about the assaults (and did nothing for months and months). The child didn't even report the assaults to the counsellor that she saw in October.


That day at school, the girl told a teacher, who noticed she was upset, that the man yelled at her and she didn't want to go home.
"It seemed like a trivial disagreement with a care giver from what she said to me," the teacher later said during her testimony.

'Big hole' in case against Tyrrell's foster dad over intimidation conviction, court hears

The lack of direct evidence from a child who missing toddler William Tyrrell's former foster father is accu...

www.9news.com.au

 

[Chrissy74]

I am pretty sure the teacher saw the child was upset after the FD yelled at her in the car. The teacher did not think it was a huge deal. The child didn't want to go home that night. I don't think the child reported the previous assaults to her teacher? There was nothing for the teacher to report as a mandatory reporter.
Only the police knew about the assaults (and did nothing for months and months). The child didn't even report the assaults to the counsellor that she saw in October.


That day at school, the girl told a teacher, who noticed she was upset, that the man yelled at her and she didn't want to go home.
"It seemed like a trivial disagreement with a care giver from what she said to me," the teacher later said during her testimony.

'Big hole' in case against Tyrrell's foster dad over intimidation conviction, court hears

The lack of direct evidence from a child who missing toddler William Tyrrell's former foster father is accu...

www.9news.com.au

former Salvation Army Captain and family friend Michelle White told the court that fm confided in her after the alleged assault”. I wonder if she also confided in MW to smacking the child with a wooden spoon after that incident occurred.

 

[SouthAussie]

former Salvation Army Captain and family friend Michelle White told the court that fm confided in her after the alleged assault”. I wonder if she also confided in MW to smacking the child with a wooden spoon after that incident occurred.

That's interesting. Could you please provide the link so we can all read more about that?

I would think that if FM did confide in MW, it would have been when the child's removal was going to happen.

I think we really need the appropriate links to the things you have posted.
.

 

[Chrissy74]

That's interesting. Could you please provide the link so we can all read more about that?

I would think that if FM did confide in MW, it would have been when the child's removal was going to happen.

I think we really need the appropriate links to the things you have posted.
.

The kick was revisited on Thursday when former Salvation Army Captain and family friend Michelle White told the court that SD confided in her after the alleged assault.

Ms White described the foster mother as 'forthcoming' and that she acknowledged that she 'at times has not lived up to her own expectations' of being a mother.

According to the statement Ms White gave to police after the kick, the foster mother said she was ‘ashamed' of what she had done, admitting that she had 'lost it' at the time.

Daily Mailwww.dailymail.co.ukWilliam Tyrrell's foster parents: Young girl told support worker her father put his hands ...

20 October 2021 the day the child was kicked by the fm.
MW was interviewed by police at her home for several hours late October 2021.

 

[SouthAussie]

The kick was revisited on Thursday when former Salvation Army Captain and family friend Michelle White told the court that SD confided in her after the alleged assault.

Ms White described the foster mother as 'forthcoming' and that she acknowledged that she 'at times has not lived up to her own expectations' of being a mother.

According to the statement Ms White gave to police after the kick, the foster mother said she was ‘ashamed' of what she had done, admitting that she had 'lost it' at the time.



Daily Mailwww.dailymail.co.ukWilliam Tyrrell's foster parents: Young girl told support worker her father put his hands ...

Thank you. So it was well after the incidents. And probably at the time they removed the child, when the police finally decided to get FACS involved. imo
As usual the DM is as clear as mud. I will try to find a better source later. One where it may be apparent how long "after" that the FM spoke with MW.

According to the statement Ms White gave to police after the kick, the foster mother said she was ‘ashamed' of what she had done, admitting that she had 'lost it' at the time.

 

[Chrissy74]

Thank you. So it was well after the incidents. And probably at the time they removed the child, when the police finally decided to get FACS involved. imo
As usual the DM is as clear as mud. I will try to find a better source later. One where it may be apparent how long "after" that the FM spoke with MW.

According to the statement Ms White gave to police after the kick, the foster mother said she was ‘ashamed' of what she had done, admitting that she had 'lost it' at the time.

What makes you say it was well after the incident? The incident happened October 20 and police visited MW at her home late October an interviewed her for hours. In terms of “how long after” not long after.

 

[SouthAussie]

What makes you say it was well after the incident? The incident happened October 20 and police visited MW at her home late October an interviewed her for hours. In terms of “how long after” not long after.

I say that because the records we have heard of that October interview do not state anything at all about the child.

MW's official police statement was likely after FACS had investigated the eventual police report. imo

The child was removed in early November. IIRC that was when the police eventually spoke with FACS about the assaults.

https://www.news.com.au/national/crime/detectives-shocking-question-after-william-tyrrell-vanished-as-new-pictures-emerge/news-story/57871753866b5310ca14825e294c1c8c

 

[LolaAngelina]

I say that because the records we have heard of that October interview do not state anything at all about the child.

MW's official police statement was likely after FACS had investigated the eventual police report. imo

The child was removed in early November. IIRC that was when the police eventually spoke with FACS about the assaults.

https://www.news.com.au/national/crime/detectives-shocking-question-after-william-tyrrell-vanished-as-new-pictures-emerge/news-story/57871753866b5310ca14825e294c1c8c

Wasn’t the original incident January 21 and she was not removed/investigated until Oct/Nov 21?

 

[SouthAussie]

Wasn’t the original incident January 21 and she was not removed/investigated until Oct/Nov 21?

Yes, January. And the child was placed in alternate foster care on 11th Nov 2021, when FACS was informed. Ogilvy didn't hand it to the child abuse squad because he said it didn't meet the threshold. And the prosecutor said when FACS was informed, the child was removed.

In court on 3rd Nov 2022, John Stratton SC asked Lonergan if the charges were designed to extract information about William's whereabouts. Lonergan said yes ... of course, their main objective was to find out what happened to William Tyrrell.

Obviously their objective was to continue their covert operation. imo


All of the links for the above facts .....

https://www.kidspot.com.au/news/william-tyrrells-sister-removed-from-care-of-foster-parents/news-story/2bca46e37e48f990d0226af2969c5e01

Police told William’s foster mother ‘we know where, we know how, we know why’

Detectives had a stark message for William Tyrrell’s foster mother. Questioned in a Sydney court about the conversation, they denied that they were deliberately lying.

www.smh.com.au

'You're a bad mother': Court hears more recordings of alleged abuse by Tyrrell foster mother

William Tyrrell's foster mother blamed the pressure of a police investigation for her alleged abuse towards a different child, a court has heard.

amp.abc.net.au

Tyrrell foster mother breaks down after secret recordings played in court

Police recorded the woman having arguments with a crying child who is not the missing toddler, and her hitting them with a wooden spoon.

www.smh.com.au

 

[Chrissy74]

Yes, January. And the child was placed in alternate foster care on 11th Nov 2021, when FACS was informed. Ogilvy didn't hand it to the child abuse squad because he said it didn't meet the threshold. And the prosecutor said when FACS was informed, the child was removed.

In court on 3rd Nov 2022, John Stratton SC asked Lonergan if the charges were designed to extract information about William's whereabouts. Lonergan said yes ... of course, their main objective was to find out what happened to William Tyrrell.

Obviously their objective was to continue their covert operation. imo


All of the links for the above facts .....

https://www.kidspot.com.au/news/william-tyrrells-sister-removed-from-care-of-foster-parents/news-story/2bca46e37e48f990d0226af2969c5e01

Police told William’s foster mother ‘we know where, we know how, we know why’

Detectives had a stark message for William Tyrrell’s foster mother. Questioned in a Sydney court about the conversation, they denied that they were deliberately lying.

www.smh.com.au

'You're a bad mother': Court hears more recordings of alleged abuse by Tyrrell foster mother

William Tyrrell's foster mother blamed the pressure of a police investigation for her alleged abuse towards a different child, a court has heard.

amp.abc.net.au

Tyrrell foster mother breaks down after secret recordings played in court

Police recorded the woman having arguments with a crying child who is not the missing toddler, and her hitting them with a wooden spoon.

www.smh.com.au

You clearly believe that had the NSWPF reported the incident when it happened a lot of angst for the child could have been avoided.
That being said:
What would the possible outcomes (there are more than one and good/not so good) for L have been SthAussie if the police had reported the incident to FACS when it occurred in January 2021?

If this was a first-time offense, can it be said with certainty that FACS would have removed the child from the foster parents’ care?

If FACS had determined that the child was safe to remain in their care, what measures would have been put in place by FACS to ensure the child’s safety moving forward?

And I ask these questions SthAussie because what we know so far is that FACS/Salvation Army/Young Hope failed in their “duty of care” to L and W to pick up on any of the signs of emotional/physical abuse. Failed according to fm to provide additional support when requested and required. Failed to educate the fp on the importance of child safety, child safety requirements and modern parenting. Failed to take into account the fp emotional and financial wellbeing before placing additional children in their care.

 

[SouthAussie]

You clearly believe that had the NSWPF reported the incident when it happened a lot of angst for the child could have been avoided.
That being said:
What would the possible outcomes (there are more than one and good/not so good) for L have been SthAussie if the police had reported the incident to FACS when it occurred in January 2021?

As I said before, Bill Spedding's kincare children were removed to keep them away from all the adverse pressure at the time. I think the same would have happened with this child.

Or they may have removed the other child, to remove the source of the child's jealousy.

Either way it is a moot point - because FACS was not informed until November.

 

[Chrissy74]

As I said before, Bill Spedding's kincare children were removed to keep them away from all the adverse pressure at the time. I think the same would have happened with this child.

Or they may have removed the other child, to remove the source of the child's jealousy.

Either way it is a moot point - because FACS was not informed until November.

In the end, the result for L was her removal from the fp. I hope that wherever she is and whoever is caring for her now, she is safe, happy, and well-cared for. I also hope she has continued access to and a relationship with her biological parents, and that her carers understand and value the importance of maintaining that connection.

 

[Karin1974]

And she really had no friends among the police who were listening in. And that makes me really quite angry. Because they are supposed to protect, they are supposed to report.

I find it hard to grasp that some are not understanding what the police should have done in this instance. What situations could and should have been avoided by getting the correct intervention in a timely manner.

IMO - Unpopular opinion incoming. They’re all too busy focusing on FM, still! Ugh.

 

[Warshawski]

The
Nnnn

I purposely don't rewind that far back because we all know that the birth home was a scene of domestic violence that the sister lived in for her first year. (links back in the threads)

In January 2021, if the police had reported under their mandatory reporter obligations, I feel pretty sure that FACS would have stepped right in - just as they did when Bill Spedding was put in the hot seat. FACS got their kincare children away from the adverse pressure.

Hi SA, just chiming in re the comments as bolded by me above. … irrespective of the media reports / links etc. I’ll question that tagging, and I also question the decision to remove those children as I’ve no doubt of their parental love.

Let’s look at the situation that K & B found themselves in as very young people.

I’d hazard a guess that they were drawn together & bonded over the challenges that they felt / faced from their own upbringing.

Spit-balling here : they loved each other, but in the real world, Life demands more.

They had no qualifications, did they have jobs,?

I suggest that neither of them had experience of a healthy relationship, and as much as they had ‘dreams’, they had no idea how to go about establishing or maintaining one.

Creating very much loved children was the easy part, and wanting to protect them was a no brainer - the problem for K & B imo was the lack of support & guidance
( coupled with alcohol & weed - not condoning but just saying - far more dangerous combinations are imbibed in for escape from everyday reality by members of our upper echelon !)

IMO William’s legacy lies in Shining a Spotlight on the inconsistency, the often incompetence and also the tendency to corruption that goes on in the whole area that is supposed to Support People ( individuals, families and children)

Hopefully eventually that will be recognised, and the time will come when all of our ‘people focussed’ Gov departments are given due & accurate recognition, with the skilled staffing to meet requirements ( as opposed to the current difficult layers, and the fat cats feeding off them)

 

[Chrissy74]

IMO - Unpopular opinion incoming. They’re all too busy focusing on FM, still! Ugh.

Carers, like the fm, who fail to protect the children in their care should not be praised or defended nor should their actions be excused or accepted. I find it hard to grasp how some are happy to overlook all the things that could and should have been prevented if she taken the necessary steps to ensure the safety of the children in her care. dare I say, had she done so, W would still be alive today and L would have her little brother by her side.

 

[SouthAussie]

Hi SA, just chiming in re the comments as bolded by me above. … irrespective of the media reports / links etc. I’ll question that tagging, and I also question the decision to remove those children as I’ve no doubt of their parental love.

Chloe Valentine (4)
Ebony Napier (4 months old)
Amber Rigney (6)
Korey Mitchell (5)

All dead. All known to Dept of Child Protection (in SA). All NOT removed from their loving parents.

Link

And more recently ...

an 11-week-old baby Link
a three-year-old girl Link
6-year old Makai Link

 

[JBowie]

All dead. All known to Dept of Child Protection (in SA). All NOT removed from their loving parents.

IMO, that's Royal Commission stuff, right there.