AZ - Gabriel Cuen-Buitimea, allegedly shot and killed with an AK-47 by rancher George Alan Kelly, 75, Kino Springs, Jan 2023

[shotgun09]

The Feb 8 event was on Kelly's land? That's where he specifically said he felt like he was being hunted, iirc, with someone hunting him from nearby bushes.

I have no idea where he was aprehended for illegally smuggling on Feb 8th. The LE on the stand did not state where it was. I am just questioning the fact that he returned to illegally cross the border again..anywhere! .. after his "feeling hunted" experience. Just my thoughts and questions

 

[Soulmagent]

"Being hunted" is a very loaded term. I wouldn't be surprised if he was coached to say it.

If you are running across the border, you are always trying to do so without being caught. Because you know BP may catch you. Rather than focus on the behavior of those breaching U.S. sovereignty as criminals, they are turned into refugees who are hunted, according to our own government in this case IMO.

The law is the law. Semantics are semantics Where the two meet is conflict. Doesn't have to be that way. But it is.

Anyone trespassing on another's land for any reason - the most noble to the most sinister - is still a trespasser.

Trying to approach this incident without bias is challenging for both sides of the litigation. But officers of the law must try very hard. The prosecution needs to seek truth, not make a U.S. citizen a symbol of something hated - an oppressor.

It's just wrong. Adjudicate the facts. Let guilt or innocence follow from that.

JMHO

If I had crossed the border ,however many times and got caught a small percentage of the times I scurried a bunch of times across the desert ,I would feel hunted. And the whole existance of border patrol supportts that fear.

 

[shotgun09]

I wonder if Mr Kelly had any " NO TRESPASSING " signage in English /or Espanol on his property?

If I had crossed the border ,however many times and got caught a small percentage of the times I scurried a bunch of times across the desert ,I would feel hunted. And the whole existance of border patrol supportts that fear.

 

[NuttMegg]

Dup

 

[NuttMegg]

It's almost as if there is a cause and effect scenario?

I can't wait to see the details. It's a strong incentive for cartels to refrain from having dramatic midday rival shootouts there. And, looking at the map with the town directly north of him, why would smugglers have to enter his property at all?
With an effective range of 380 yards for his powerful weapons, Kelly probably shot "above the heads " of any "recognizable as human body" passing by.

Anyway this is probably something the prosecutor is saving for dessert.

Rancher known to fire indiscriminately at passersby

Kills one, shoots him in the back

Has written book revealing his thoughts on immigrants

Failed tourism investment ends with Kelly living in small enclave, imagine the bitterness.

Anyway we'll see. No way a jury will convict him, but is he ready to play the defense atty's game? Sad, if so, for reasons I already mentioned.

 

[WingsOverTX]

If I had crossed the border ,however many times and got caught a small percentage of the times I scurried a bunch of times across the desert ,I would feel hunted. And the whole existance of border patrol supportts that fear.

RBBM
As it should. It's called illegal immigration for a reason. Change the law if you don't like it. Hasn't happened. Yet! Maybe the law will change & the BP will be disbanded.

If you stay in your own country or enter legally, you have nothing to fear from U.S. law.

I understand how punitive the laws regarding the border seem to some, especially from a humanitarian standpoint.

Respectfully, "feeling" hunted & having the AZ prosecutor call you hunted are not the same thing. Feelings are not facts in this case, IMO. Rhetoric can be useful but not when it obscures truth to a degree that only bias is left.

MOO

Semantics, per Oxford Languages:

1. the branch of linguistics and logic concerned with meaning. There are a number of branches and subbranches of semantics, including formal semantics, which studies the logical aspects of meaning, such as sense, reference, implication, and logical form, lexical semantics, which studies word meanings and word relations, and conceptual semantics, which studies the cognitive structure of meaning.
   • the meaning of a word, phrase, sentence, or text.

 

[shotgun09]

To further expand the dramatic statement ( IMO ) made from the Prosecution regarding the 'feeling' of being hunted. We are not sure who came up with the statement first, LE or the witness.

just for kicks and giggles...

I remember feeling 'hunted' and absolutely petrified, when my ball accidentally landed on " Old Lady La#*&ski's " lawn. !!!!!!
It didn't happen too often, but when it did??? Ho-leee Shlit!
You knew what you were in for when that happened. It was terrifying! She opened her curtains just enough to see her scowling, angry and mean face. The bang! bang! bang! on her window, with her fist was a sound I will never forget. SHE WAS WATCHING 7 year old ME !!!!! She had a history of confiscating balls and toys, but I was never going to leave mine there, no matter what. So, I bravely stepped through the minefields of the perpetually perfect and green lawn, and rescued my ball. I escaped the area safe and sound. I was a hero!!

Now, that's some drama!


Peace

 

[worm]

As a lifelong border resident and current az border corridor resident, many of you have lots of thoughts that are not remotely our experience. I leave water out intentionally. My well has a spigot. People passing through are not immediate threats. They're other humans. Are we armed? Heck ya. But we've only been burglarized by people with names like methany and Billy.

I think that putting food/water out is just human kindness and I see nothing wrong at all.

 

[Cool Cats]

I think that putting food/water out is just human kindness and I see nothing wrong at all.

It is the desert where people are more in tune to heat stroke and the importance of staying hydrated. Putting out water like that is common.

When I was broken down on the freeway outside of Tucson the first thing a passing motorist did was offer me water from a canteen they kept in their car. Water in your car is a must-have for freeway travel in the desert. When I went jogging during the day a passing motorist stopped and thought I was in peril of getting heat stroke.

 

[PrairieWind]

I think that putting food/water out is just human kindness and I see nothing wrong at all.

Leaving a spigot unattended is fine. Actually leaving water and/or food in the desert for immigrants is another. It can be seen as aiding immigration across these arease which is clearly illegal and thus encouraging it.

 

[cvaldez1975]

why, if he was so bad, did he call BP onto his property the second time? he called- they found nothing. why not just leave the body? don't find it. don't move it. If he really murdered the guy, I do not see why he called BP. IMO.

just devils advocate here. maybe he reported it because he was afraid other cartel would come back once they heard what happened?

 

[PrairieWind]

just devils advocate here. maybe he reported it because he was afraid other cartel would come back once they heard what happened?

I don't think that would matter. First it would affirm a cartel connection. Second, BP couldn't protect him from the cartel anyway and he would know that.

 

[shotgun09]

just devils advocate here. maybe he reported it because he was afraid other cartel would come back once they heard what happened?

Going with your thoughts here, but I am wondering who the BP's Ranch Liaison is, and how often was he contacted by Mr Kelly regarding possible illegal activity on his ranch. Was this the first time, on Jan 30th? Or had there been previous and additional encroachments/trespassing reported? And, if so..is there a record of such? And, was this ever investigated, prior to Mr Kelly's arrest.

 

[cvaldez1975]

I have no idea where he was aprehended for illegally smuggling on Feb 8th. The LE on the stand did not state where it was. I am just questioning the fact that he returned to illegally cross the border again..anywhere! .. after his "feeling hunted" experience. Just my thoughts and questions

pretty sure this is how he makes his money, so ofc he will lead others across again.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

pretty sure this is how he makes his money, so ofc he will lead others across again.

In his testimony in the preliminary hearing he said that he and GCB paid 2500.00 each for crossing the border.

I haven’t listened to the entire thing yet but I don’t find the witness DDR very credible thus far. The state was asking about GCB after he was shot and DDR went on and on about a horse that was shot. He said it was on it’s back with it’s legs up. Afaik a horse wasn’t shot.

 

[shotgun09]

In his testimony in the preliminary hearing he said that he and GCB paid 2500.00 each for crossing the border.

I haven’t listened to the entire thing yet but I don’t find the witness DDR very credible thus far. The state was asking about GCB after he was shot and DDR went on and on about a horse that was shot. He said it was on it’s back with it’s legs up. Afaik a horse wasn’t shot.

I agree with the questionable credibility on the witness. Included in the horsey upside down story, was the claim that there was "book writing materials" found close to the body?

Me thinks Mr witness had maybe been fed the story of Mr Kelly's big historical and NYT best selling novel..(.not.)...by someone, prior to giving his statement to LE. He might have been confused with past and present tense, regarding 'writing a book' vs " wrote a book'. Hense the " writing materials" statement. But, that's just my opinion.



ETA: Again....there were NO writing materials, nor anything resembling that found near the body. Per LE statement.

 

[pentimento]

In his testimony in the preliminary hearing he said that he and GCB paid 2500.00 each for crossing the border.

I haven’t listened to the entire thing yet but I don’t find the witness DDR very credible thus far. The state was asking about GCB after he was shot and DDR went on and on about a horse that was shot. He said it was on it’s back with it’s legs up. Afaik a horse wasn’t shot.

Interesting though that both Kelly and the witnesses mention the horse. Maybe it got spooked when K was shooting and somehow tripped and fell, or reared and fell? Legs up doesn't sound dead. And wasn't K's story that his horse ran by the house, spooked after the supposed gunfire from the migrants? Then what was the horse doing over there near the migrants where K was firing on them? JMO.

 

[shotgun09]

Interesting though that both Kelly and the witnesses mention the horse. Maybe it got spooked when K was shooting and somehow tripped and fell? Legs up doesn't sound dead. And wasn't K's story that his horse ran by the house, spooked after the supposed gunfire from the migrants? Then what was the horse doing over there near the migrants where K was firing on them? JMO.

Indeed! The various versions of the horsey, from Kelly's to the two other witnesses all contradict each other. Somehow though, the horse was prominent in each of their versions. As I stated earlier in thread, I wish horses could talk!

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Indeed! The various versions of the horsey, from Kelly's to the two other witnesses all contradict each other. Somehow though, the horse was prominent in each of their versions. As I stated earlier in thread, I wish horses could talk!

One thing we know for sure is that Mr Kelly was there to see the horse's actions. I'm not so sure about the state's witness's JMO.

 

[pentimento]

One thing we know for sure is that Mr Kelly was there to see the horse's actions. I'm not so sure about the state's witness's JMO.

That's one way of looking at it. Witnesses saw a horse fall -- probably reared and fell backward -- and they thought it was shot. How could it benefit them to make that up? Except that it now turns out that K mentioned the horse in his chronology of events, and it doesn't make any sense. If the horse was near where the immigrants were walking, then it hadn't been spooked by any gunfire until K started firing himself. JMO.