AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #2

[Ms Suzanne]

who's belt was this on the stairway?

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzannec4444 [
I am finding it very convenient all the casing were found right there near this little boys gun.

I thought the casings were found around where the bodies were located?

imoo

Yes,Near the bodies.His gun was right inside the door near Mr Romans body also.why would this kid just leave all this stuff out?

 

[Salem]

You can also see a very good picture of the gun in this same slide show.

It shows it is not a big or a cumbersome weapon at all but extremely lightweight and easy to handle.

imoo

Okay - I'm confused about the gun or guns now. Did the child use the rifle that is in the slide show in the post on page 17 of this thread or did he use the pistol that is shown in the trunk of the car? I thought he used the rifle?

TIA,

Salem

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Well.not alot of information is really out yet on this case.I can't try to figure it all out if all the information is not out yet.I guess I will periodically check on this case and this little boy as more information becomes available.I am not going to give up on him.I do pray he gets the help he needs.I think I will go look at other cases on here too.My 16 year old son is getting me interested in the little girl Caylee Anthonys case.Where would you even begin to look in her threads.There are sooo many.

 

[Salem]

After seeing those photos of the crime scene, something is just "off".

Where exactly did they find the men?

I agree. How did TR get shot in the left elbow? You can see how he took the chest shots if the child was hiding in the house, but the left elbow is wierd to me. Also, I doubt he got out on the passenger side. He was probably getting stuff out of the truck from that side.

Also, how is it he opened the screen door but when he falls he does not cross the threshold? I don't think this is possible. You have to be within a certain distance and very few people would have arms long enough to open the screen and fall forward without having, at a minimum, your head cross the threshold. I think the screen was pushed open from the inside by whoever was hiding in there.

Salem

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzannec4444 [
I am finding it very convenient all the casing were found right there near this little boys gun.






Yes,Near the bodies.His gun was right inside the door near Mr Romans body also.why would this kid just leave all this stuff out?

I can't answer who or why some do foolish things but they do. TruTV shows all the time how stupid or dumb some criminals can be.

imoo

 

[Salem]

It's an extremely slow weapon, by today's standards, requiring at LEAST six seconds, by a right handed expert, to use proficiently. It is a chipmonk, or cricket, .22 single action (load, aim, fire, bolt back, reload, bolt forward, firing pin rod pulled back, aim, and fire) rifle that weights 2.5 pounds and is 30" long. Certainly not the weapon of choice for a killer.

Shock - do you think the gun could have had a fixed chamber, where you could load the bullets in, about 7-8 at a time so that you did not have to reload after each shot, but the bullet would enter the chamber when the bolt was pulled back? I'm sure I'm not using all the correct terminology here, but hopefully you understand what I am asking?

TIA,

Salem

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I agree. How did TR get shot in the left elbow? You can see how he took the chest shots if the child was hiding in the house, but the left elbow is weird to me. Also, I doubt he got out on the passenger side. He was probably getting stuff out of the truck from that side.

Also, how is it he opened the screen door but when he falls he does not cross the threshold? I don't think this is possible. You have to be within a certain distance and very few people would have arms long enough to open the screen and fall forward without having, at a minimum, your head cross the threshold. I think the screen was pushed open from the inside by whoever was hiding in there.

Salem

I thought it was Vincent that was shot in the elbow and Tim had an injury to his arm?

I agree imo Tim did not open the screen door. His body and his head was in front of the half way open door that swung outward toward him. He was never between the screen door and the main entry way. It showed a picture of the threshold where one of the casings was caught in the track there. In that part there was no blood seen between the screen door and the entrance way to the home.

The neighbors will know the habits of TR and VR. Someone may have even ridden by and seen TRs sitting in his truck on the phone. It is not uncommon that the other one will drive a vehicle that belongs to one of them and the other one just sits on the passenger side, especially since they are going to the same home. With the door being left ajar then it does show imo that this is the side that TRs got out on the day he lost his life.

imoo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Shock - do you think the gun could have had a fixed chamber, where you could load the bullets in, about 7-8 at a time so that you did not have to reload after each shot, but the bullet would enter the chamber when the bolt was pulled back? I'm sure I'm not using all the correct terminology here, but hopefully you understand what I am asking?

TIA,

Salem

In this model you can only load the weapon with one bullet at a time. You have to reload each time which can be done with speed. It is a simple procedure. Just slam the bolt back, it then ejects the casing out and throw bullet in and slam bolt forward again. A piece of cake and simple as 1.2.3, especially for someone who had used this very same gun. It is consistent with the statement that the neighbors gave to police about hearing a popping and then a delay each time.

Used guns are much easier to use as they have age on them and aren't as tight as a brand new gun. This one had been used when Vincent was around this age and he probably used it for years.

imoo

 

[Trino]

There are so many posters here and on other sites that absolutely don't want to believe this boy killed two people. Somehow they want to believe the boy was either abused or set up. There are accusations blaming the mother, the father, the step-mother, even Tim Romans.

Evidence re: shooting doesn't lie. The town has supported the victims and has told the goodness of the father, his involvment with the boy in sports, etc. The lawyers, LE, the judge do not dispute the boy did this. There's no evidence of abuse. The boy could say he was abused, but this does not make it so. 1000 swats does not make it the truth.

It really is hard to believe an 8 yr old planned this, but it seems he did this. The evaluation will, undoubtedly, reveal mental problems. Hopefully, the boy will get help, but it will be a long process.

 

[MeoW333]

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzannec4444 [
I am finding it very convenient all the casing were found right there near this little boys gun.



Yes,Near the bodies.His gun was right inside the door near Mr Romans body also.why would this kid just leave all this stuff out?

While the child has the skill to murder people using a .22 rifle; he is still a child of 8 so has no idea how to cover up what he did. So he just leaves things out.

 

[MeoW333]

Was that a bottle of booze on the kitchen counter in the photo? Hard to tell as it could be say cooking oil or something else.

What is on the table? Why are shells just laying on what appears to be the coffee table? Were the guns and ammo just left out all over the house?

It does look like a beer or some kind of alcohol, imo. We already know that Tim Romans and the boy's father got drunk together and in fights at the work or bars sometimes.
Evidently they left the ammo and guns out as well.

 

[MeoW333]

That makes no sense imo. The father was shot in the back and in the elbow.......not the front. I don't think he ever saw the person who killed him unless he was conscious enough when they stood close to him and fired the two shots to his head.

imo

Well what if the father was walking down the stairs with the belt in his hand and was like "get down here boy" and then the boy shot him from behind?

 

[MeoW333]

Does anyone know if they had screens or windows that were open that day?

 

[Salem]

There are so many posters here and on other sites that absolutely don't want to believe this boy killed two people. Somehow they want to believe the boy was either abused or set up. There are accusations blaming the mother, the father, the step-mother, even Tim Romans.

Evidence re: shooting doesn't lie. The town has supported the victims and has told the goodness of the father, his involvment with the boy in sports, etc. The lawyers, LE, the judge do not dispute the boy did this. There's no evidence of abuse. The boy could say he was abused, but this does not make it so. 1000 swats does not make it the truth.

It really is hard to believe an 8 yr old planned this, but it seems he did this. The evaluation will, undoubtedly, reveal mental problems. Hopefully, the boy will get help, but it will be a long process.

Trino - I am one of these posters of which you speak. I am not accusing anyone of anything, but I am doing a lot of speculating because I DO NOT want to believe that an 8 year old would plan and carry out such a ruthless killing of 2 men for no reason. I'm not saying it is impossible, but I am saying I am not going to belive it until I know all the facts and if the boy did it, I want to know why! This is a horrible crime - did the boy do it for no reason? Maybe? I honestly don't know, but I do know I don't want to believe it and I will not believe it until I am assured that everything and anything has been looked at and analyzed. Remember the two boys that confessed to killing the little girl? But they didn't and DNA proved it. Anyway you slice this cake - we are talking about a child with a child's cognitive abilities and a limited understanding of life - not an adult. I think it is only prudent to investigate this carefully and thoroughly and if the end result is that the child did it, then we should be able to say why at the end of the day.

Was the child born with out a conscious or did he learn this somewhere? In my mind this is a nature vs. nurture case.


As an aside - I keep an open mind as to the men's reputation for now. Folks who appear to be good folks may not be as evidenced by the girl scout leader with the lovely family webpage that was keeping and torturing a 17 year old in CA. I bet her neighbors all thought she was just "the nicest person" too.

As an aside, my son thought the boy may have gained extra skill in his steady hand by playing x-box and other video games.

Salem

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Well what if the father was walking down the stairs with the belt in his hand and was like "get down here boy" and then the boy shot him from behind?

He was walking up the stairs when shot, not down when he was shot in the back and elbow. He had on Carhartt overalls and was fully dressed in his full construction attire. You don't wear a belt with overalls.

imoo

 

[Ms Suzanne]

He did not need to be wearing it to use it on this boy to hit him.I'll just come back and periodically check this thread as more information becomes available because we are saying things that are not confirmed yet and we do not know about yet.We need to wait to see what they say about all this and what they think.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

He was walking up the stairs when shot, not down when he was shot in the back and elbow. He had on Carhartt overalls and was fully dressed in his full construction attire. You don't wear a belt with overalls.

imoo

Which makes the placement of the belt on the stairs even more curious to me. Was the boy expecting more spankings and this time with a belt? What do we know about the spankings the night before? Were they with an open hand or an object?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Trino - I am one of these posters of which you speak. I am not accusing anyone of anything, but I am doing a lot of speculating because I DO NOT want to believe that an 8 year old would plan and carry out such a ruthless killing of 2 men for no reason. I'm not saying it is impossible, but I am saying I am not going to believe it until I know all the facts and if the boy did it, I want to know why! This is a horrible crime - did the boy do it for no reason? Maybe? I honestly don't know, but I do know I don't want to believe it and I will not believe it until I am assured that everything and anything has been looked at and analyzed. Remember the two boys that confessed to killing the little girl? But they didn't and DNA proved it. Anyway you slice this cake - we are talking about a child with a child's cognitive abilities and a limited understanding of life - not an adult. I think it is only prudent to investigate this carefully and thoroughly and if the end result is that the child did it, then we should be able to say why at the end of the day.

Was the child born with out a conscious or did he learn this somewhere? In my mind this is a nature vs. nurture case.


As an aside - I keep an open mind as to the men's reputation for now. Folks who appear to be good folks may not be as evidenced by the girl scout leader with the lovely family webpage that was keeping and torturing a 17 year old in CA. I bet her neighbors all thought she was just "the nicest person" too.

As an aside, my son thought the boy may have gained extra skill in his steady hand by playing x-box and other video games.

Salem

Who can really answer that? We have no clue who this boy really is or what makes him tick. With the new study out this week stating 1 out of 5 young adults have a personality disorder, it is very reasonable that did not just start developing when they became legal adults at 18. So who but the experts can really say. I do believe this boy has an mental problem of some sort. Imo his thinking is grandiose. I do not believe his thousand spanking story. I think he embellishes his stories. I think that is why he stayed in trouble for lying. But IMO, no normal child has the capability at 8 years old to internalize a murderous rage, much less carry it out to these end results. So I do not think this child is in anyway a normal, typical 8 year old. Even his thinking about ending their suffering is eerie to me. What normal kid would kill their own parent or the parent's friend and use that as an excuse rather than running for help or calling 911? Even a 2 year old called 911 when something was wrong.

Yes, you are right, all of the neighbors have had nothing but nice things to say about the Romero family and there isn't one thing to show that what they believe is false. The town has fully supported the Romero family during all of this tragedy. Being a good parents is not a safety zone. Good and decent parents are murdered too.

I don't think watching videos had anything to do with why he chose the weapon he did. He knew how to use this gun well and knew what it would do, and he used it for a purpose it was never intended. Just like other murderers who choose their weapon of choice.

imoo

 

[Trino]

I'm trying to recall where I heard this, but I believe the guns were stored (unlocked) in a particular room. The boy would have had to get the rifle and loaded it before the father went up the stairs. It appears the boy was ready and waiting for Mr. Romero.