AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #2

[Ms Suzanne]

I agree,Yes that is my call.It doesn't matter to me either.That's all about you.You were rude to me before and I did not do anything back.Please do not let it happen again.If I am wrong I am truly sorry.I did not mean to be rude or disrespectful to you.But I didn't feel it and you did not sound like you were abused with your responses and I have talked to many people.I do wish you well OB.I really do.I don't hide my life either.I've earned my respect today.One day at a Time.Maybe we just shouldn't write on each others threads.I really do wish you well OB.

 

[mostlylurking]

So, here's a thought...
Could we start another thread that lists only facts as we actually know them. No conversation, no theories. Just facts & the various statements of the witnesses as we know them to be thus far?

ie. There were casings found at _____
There was the grandmother's statement
There are the mother's statements
There are some specific quotes from the court filings, etc., that are not supposition, but statement...., etc., etc., etc.

It might help all of us get back to objectivity in just the facts, not the theories.
Whadda ya think?

 

[Ms Suzanne]

I think that's a great idea.I can go to that thread.

 

[colette]

Even if the boy was abused, what is his excuse for gunning down Mr. Romans while he was on the phone with his wife?
Oh, maybe he teased him? We don't know that. All we have is the supposed fact that the boy thought he had 1000 spankings and that was enough. He never mentions Mr. Romans, except to say he "put him out of his misery". To hear him coldly say that on the tape is enough for me. Just because the kid is 8, he is not an angel.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

I don't know.That would not have been ok.

 

[mostlylurking]

Even if the boy was abused, what is his excuse for gunning down Mr. Romans while he was on the phone with his wife?
Oh, maybe he teased him? We don't know that. All we have is the supposed fact that the boy thought he had 1000 spankings and that was enough. He never mentions Mr. Romans, except to say he "put him out of his misery". To hear him coldly say that on the tape is enough for me. Just because the kid is 8, he is not an angel.

I would like to say that if there was abuse, I do not consider it an exuse for killing people. That has never been my opinion. In an 8 yo's mind, though, it might be. Who knows? I can barely understand my own thoughs on any given day, much less those of my 3 10 & under kids.
Again, I'll say that IMO if he is guilty -- maliciously or as a means of defending himself in his mind -- therapy, not jail time, will have a better chance of helping him return to society. If he is innocent, then what he has gone through in the last month will require therapy, too.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

I guess I am hoping the little boy didn't do it and someone else did.

 

[Fairy1]

Even if the boy was abused, what is his excuse for gunning down Mr. Romans while he was on the phone with his wife?
Oh, maybe he teased him? We don't know that. All we have is the supposed fact that the boy thought he had 1000 spankings and that was enough. He never mentions Mr. Romans, except to say he "put him out of his misery". To hear him coldly say that on the tape is enough for me. Just because the kid is 8, he is not an angel.

He's also not a villian. Let's please not lose sight of the fact that this is an 8-year-old CHILD who, at least not that we know of, does not have a past that paints him as anything other than an 8-year-old child.

 

[colette]

He's also not a villian. Let's please not lose sight of the fact that this is an 8-year-old CHILD who, at least not that we know of, does not have a past that paints him as anything other than an 8-year-old child.

IDK, Grandma & Grandpa thought him capable of murder. They started to tell the police something else about the boy but stopped. If there is a trial it will come out, it sounds like there is some history there. But as I have said all along he will plea bargin. I hope he gets the help he needs because someone else's safty in the future depends on it.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

If he did or did not do it.I agree he needs therapy.That article says he hasn't talked to anyone right?That's sad.He really needs to talk to someone.

 

[mostlylurking]

If he did or did not do it.I agree he needs therapy.That article says he hasn't talked to anyone right?That's sad.He really needs to talk to someone.

I think the article iirc (woo hoo, i finally figured out what that meant), it meant that he's not allowed to talk about the case to anyone and his visits are very limited in time and specific people. Probably limits what the conversations can be right now, since he is in a detention center. With the counselor assigned now, hopefully he can start processing out what he needs to -- whatever that may be.

 

[Fairy1]

IDK, Grandma & Grandpa thought him capable of murder. They started to tell the police something else about the boy but stopped. If there is a trial it will come out, it sounds like there is some history there. But as I have said all along he will plea bargin. I hope he gets the help he needs because someone else's safty in the future depends on it.

Agreed. There may or may not be more to this boy. I concede that he seems to be guilty of cold-blooded murder - based on what we know right now. He will most likely plea bargain - who wants to see an 8-year-old child go on trial for first degree murder? But, I need to know more before I write-off this child. Thinking back to when my own children were 8 - I just cannot reconcile pre-meditated murder. OTOH, there have been killers who began their crimes at this age - or younger. So far, we haven't heard about that type of behavior in relation to this boy.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Yeah,it's good this little boy is talking to a counselor now.

 

[MeoW333]

That seems a little far fetched to me, SS and certainly no motive to murder two people! I wouldn't think an abuser would just threaten. If they were an abuser they would just do it but there is no evidence that this father was an abuser of any sort. From what has been said, even by the biological mother, he and his father went everywhere together. Most abusers don't hang out with the abused child. They isolate them from friends (which this boy had) and suppress them. They don't think enough of the child to support them in much of anything. This boy seemed to be doted on. He got to go hunting, fishing, play soccer, football, play video games and even had a ATV.

imoo

SS is correct in what she says, OBE.
Some abusers may isolate a child; while the other half plays the part of "good parent" in public to cover up the child is abused. I take it you were never a victim of abuse, OBE.
We must remember the boy's paternal grandparents spoke out as well.

 

[MeoW333]

An abuser doesn't have to threaten and when they abuse they carry it out...not talk about it.

imoo

OBE that is completely false. Abusers love to threaten whether or not they carry out their threats. The threats put fear into their victims which gives the abuser a sense of power.

 

[MeoW333]

OBE, i have read some more and am sorry to hear about your abuse and that of mostlylurking's and others. I was isolated as a child and abused physically and mentally. No neighbors or relatives reported about it and they knew. My mother also loved to threaten a lot. Sometimes she carried out her threats; other times she didn't. (She obviously didn't kill me; i'm here). She tried to play the part of devout Catholic, Brownies troop leader one year, and she is prominent in the psychiatric field; ..to make a long story short.

Statistically speaking the highest % of children who kill their parents had been abused.
Budding sociopaths usually always always show signs at a young age even if it's the slightest behavior problems. There are tests that can be done to show the area of the brain that controls impulses.

The boy is either A. a sociopath or B. a victim of abuse. C. possibly both.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

An abuser doesn't have to threaten and when they abuse they carry it out...not talk about it.

imoo

That is absolutely untrue. Given the fact that abuse can take the form of physical, emotional, or verbal (even the combination of anyone of them), this does not make this statement remotely true. Abuse is all about intimidation and control of another. Having power over another. If a person has been fortunate not to experience any form of abuse, it is difficult to understand the dynamics of it and what it does to the victim of it. It can be subtle or violent. Either way, the victim of it carries with them the "scars" as a result.

 

[mostlylurking]

OK, found this on another site. Lot's of discussion going on there about the stepmom & where is she? Lot's of speculation as to her involvement, too, as she has apparantly been somewhat MIA since this all happened. I will repeat -- speculation. No proof of anything, just commentary based on this link.

http://axtonromero.blogspot.com/2008...o-in-town.html

 

[Shock]

Mara Siegel, a Maricopa County deputy juvenile public defender who is working with the defense team in this case, said there is reason to believe that the boy didn't kill his father and another man. But she can't talk about it.

Judge's gag order. Interesting, isn't it, that we can see and hear the “confession” but not the other side of the story?

Even if the boy told the truth and if by some miracle it's admissible in court – hardly likely given that they didn't even bother to read the kid his Miranda rights -- both Siegel and Drizin say it's unlikely the boy will face trial. For hundreds of years, we've presumed that kids his age are incapable of forming the criminal intent necessary to commit murder.

From Laurie Roberts @ azcentral.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Thankyou for the link.I've been interested in her too.