Babcock Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #1

[Typhoo1961]

Day 5 trial coverage by Lisa Hepfner: watch video for photos of witnesses.

http://www.chch.com/laura-babcock-murder-trial-day-5/

Wow! That doctor was married. I wonder what his wife is thinking now.

 

[matou]

Wow! That doctor was married. I wonder what his wife is thinking now.

I can see the doctor filling "prescriptions" for the girls. JMO

 

[Georgeo]

That exactly my thoughts. He made a lot of false promises to people along with many other things.

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while anything is possible, it was interesting to see AM and one other DM friend seem sincerely sorry for their past behaviour with the missions that DM seemed to so enjoy. One was in tears on the stand (not sure if crocodile tears or sincere) but no one other than MS rapped and was involved with violent videos of gore and killing. He seemed to have a special interest in all things criminal and killing related. Not much of a moral compass on him. Jmo

 

[Obes99]

That is what I thought to me she seems like someone with bipolar. I know some who are bipolar and one minute they are calm and nice and next second yelling and accusing you of things, that is a sign of bipolar.

Acute vacillating emotional dysregulation is more consistent with BPD. a number of things we've learned about LB are consistent with BPD. I have yet to hear anything suggestive of BAD and because sx's of BAD are so pronounced, I'm certain we would have heard something about her behaviour by now if she had BAD.

 

[Errrr]

I'm skeptical too, only because there didn't appear to be any obvious signs or symptoms of mental health issues prior to her going to university, which itself can be very stressful and cause a lot of anxiety, getting more independence from her parents by choosing to run with a rough crowd who had access to all kinds of drugs, sex and parties through their older "mentor" DM, and then leave home with no means of support rather than continue to follow the house rules.

MOO

Stressful is getting out of University and finding yourself working at a toy store just like you never got a degree at all.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Borderline or Bipolar: Objective Data Support a Difference
http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/bip...-or-bipolar-objective-data-support-difference

When a patient presents with episodes of depression, irritability, and emotional lability (especially tears and anger, with rapid changes), might he or she have borderline personality disorder (BPD)? Or could it be rapid cycling bipolar disorder (BD)? Although there are other possibilities, such as substance use, differentiating these 2 common conditions can be extremely difficult. DSM criteria have a roughly 90% overlap. Only 2 DSM criteria features are clearly present in one and absent in the other—namely, abandonment fear and chronic emptiness.

 

[winter2017]

I agree that the cutting and her emotional upheaval are symptoms of BPD.The mental health system failed her. She tried to get help at CAMH a psychiatric hospital and they had a long wait. They should have had something to help her. She could have been rehabilitated with the appropropriate treatment. Some on another forum talk about CN being rehabilitated. I doubt that IMO because I consider her a psychopath. The reason I think that is her cold and calculating behavior at first trial and showing no remorse. Laura will never have the chance to be rehabilitated her life was snuffed out.

 

[Kamille]

Stressful is getting out of University and finding yourself working at a toy store just like you never got a degree at all.

Which applies to a large number of university graduates these days.

 

[Kamille]

Wow! That doctor was married. I wonder what his wife is thinking now.

I'm sure she believes every word of his "story".

 

[Kamille]

Well LB definitely knew DM before this party.

This is purely speculation on my part, but as it was supposed to be a surprise party, I doubt LB was asked who she wanted to attend it.

Perhaps SL invited her most common contacts on facebook or on her phone?

Maybe he asked KS (who had been LB's friend since they worked together at the toy store in 2007) who to invite?


MOO

So why would she suggest inviting the guy that she knew LB was cheating on him with?

Mean girls indeed.

MOO

 

[Stratocaster]

A question I've been puzzled by regarding both TB and LB cases, and the official LE charges against DM/MS.....why has there not been a charge of causing an indignity to a body? It seems with other sketchy murder cases, where the body has been tampered with, this charge accompanies the murder charge.....IMO burning a body(s) in an incinerator warrants this charge.

 

[dar107]

I am surprised by how quickly both crown and defense are going through the witnesses. Surprised by no cross if the Dr. .... you would think DM or Dungey would try to discredit him..make him admit he was calling her or Julie as an escort... If only to highlight the lifestyle of escorting Laura had fallen into and the "possibility some client put her up somewhere and thats why shes disappeared "

 

[Tilly23]

So why would she suggest inviting the guy that she knew LB was cheating on him with?

Mean girls indeed.

MOO

Yup, I think so.

From this tweet on Oct 23:

"Sam Pazzano‏ @SamPazzano
Lerner met accused killer Del Millard at Laura's birthday party on Feb. 12, 2011. Millard was there with girlfriend Christina Noudga."

I wonder if CN was invited and brought DM. That might explain why SL thought CN was DM's girlfriend - I mean, she wasn't was she? until that night?

cansleuther reported the following from ABro's book:
(see post #117 in the opening statements thread)

A little background information on LB and CN, via Abro's book:

Laura Babcock liked to meet men through online dating sites. If they met with her approval, she would sometimes invite them out again with friends, including Christina Noudga and <K>. Most of the time, the man would end up picking up the tab for all the young women. Then, as part of their game, they would figure out which of the women the man should date. Babcock liked to play matchmaker – and sometimes match un-maker. This type of fooling around was fun at first for many of her friends, but it often lost its appeal and resulted in rifts. Not long before Babcock disappeared, her friendships with Christina and <K> had reached a breaking point. Babcock had moved in on Noudga’s territory, sleeping with Millard and gossiping to her friends about it.

I wonder if LS met CN and KS after he met LB online - at one of these events where the game was to stick him with the bill. Maybe he invited KS and CN thinking they were her closest friends? And maybe CN invited DM and flirted with him all night - to get under LB's skin?

Pure speculation on my part. MOO

 

[dar107]

When Laura disappeared CN and KS would be having many a convo about it! They knew her well ... they must of talked plenty including about DM abd his vow to remove her from their lives. And KS is still besties with CN after all this and made a point of stating it. These are not good people at all...theres.no compassion there for a girl who was once a friend. So sad Laura was failed on so many levels and unfortunately pushed away the one great friend she had.

 

[matou]

I'm surprised DM wasn't trolling the neighbourhood high schools directly for fresh meat to exploit (male and female).

 

[Obes99]

Borderline or Bipolar: Objective Data Support a Difference
http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/bip...-or-bipolar-objective-data-support-difference

Rapid cycling is descriptor and is defined by 4 cycles of depression and mania over a period of a year. It does not occur from minute to minute. Emotional dysregulation however, a cardinal symptom of BPD is. As is self-mutilating behaviour (superficial lacerating wrists). Even the classes of medication she was taking are consistent with BPD.

 

[winter2017]

I did not know that Laura and CN were that familiar with each other. That is what makes CN s behavior even worse. She got a text from DM saying he would get rid of Laura , Laura disappears and CN knows DM said something about making her disappear and does not say anything to the police. The recent ex bf of Laura s meets with DM and DM denies any relationship with Laura. Then CN joins a fb group that is trying to find Laura. When she knows about the text to her, says nothing to the police but yet joins a fb group for people trying to find Laura. It was all a game with her and DM. They are two sick people. Then add MS into it and it does not say a lot if he was good friends with CN. DM and CN alone are really warped, deranged never mind including MS.

 

[deugirtni]

Earlier when I sarcastically said what a great friend K was to LB for participating along with CN in her birthday text to LB regarding the first time she 'slept with' the prize, DM... I hadn't realized that the date was the same as the party SL organized for his then-girlfriend. So at the time when CN was rubbing it in to LB that she'd slept with DM, LB was SL's girlfriend.. so now I'm thinking, 'so what, then??'.LB can't expect ex bfs to remain faithful to her, she herself had moved on to SL... etc.. seems weird now that they're even making an issue of it.
Also, I recall that CN had reportedly known DM for years.. so the girl finally 'got lucky' on the night of 'Medieval Night'. Here is one of Adam Carter's tweets from the TB trial, in which CN says she had 'been together' with DM since 2010, which now seems rather like a lie.:

"Noudga says she was Dellen Millard's girlfriend in 2013. "We had been together since 2010," Noudga says. #TimBosma #Bosma Apr 27, 2016"

Here is a photo with everyone else blacked out of the pic from that evening. Looks like 10 people attended in total.

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/ne...12757899/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&

 

[SnooperDuper]

Rapid cycling is descriptor and is defined by 4 cycles of depression and mania over a period of a year. It does not occur from minute to minute. Emotional dysregulation however, a cardinal symptom of BPD is. As is self-mutilating behaviour (superficial lacerating wrists). Even the classes of medication she was taking are consistent with BPD.

Self harm isn't unique to BPD, emotional lability isn't unique to BPD, those medications aren't unique to BPD (and in fact are not indicated in favour of DBT), and all of those symptoms could be explained by her drug use, is what I'm saying.

It's going to be important to DM to prove to the jury that she had bad character though. That's why DM is hammering on this point.

 

[canadiangirl]

while anything is possible, it was interesting to see AM and one other DM friend seem sincerely sorry for their past behaviour with the missions that DM seemed to so enjoy. One was in tears on the stand (not sure if crocodile tears or sincere) but no one other than MS rapped and was involved with violent videos of gore and killing. He seemed to have a special interest in all things criminal and killing related. Not much of a moral compass on him. Jmo

I don't get the impression any of them are/were actually sorry. Their demeanor on the stand said a lot IMO they could have all helped so much more but couldn't even get a story straight between them. Look at AM and MH. " Lies were told ", and they don't talk.. Well no kidding. Seems everyone is covering for everyone here. Moo

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