Babcock Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #3

[Grey-St]

Wasn’t suggesting there that cell phone providers are uncooperative in emergency situations ie) a missing person who is actively threatening suicide, someone who has called 911 and isn’t able to give the address.

This would be a request for an investigative ping though on a missing adult. It’s my understanding that there’s a more formal process on obtaining that information.

You could be right, maybe you have to get a judge to sign off on a warrant. Either way, if it’s a formal process or not, it doesn’t sound like imo an avenue the TPS went down.

It was stated from MSM reports (and posted earlier in this thread) that DM in fact was not questioned in LBs disappearance, and that TPS weren’t aware of her phone records until after TBs disappearance/murder. Which is suspicious as SL said that was one of the first leads he gave TPS in July 2012.

 

[winter2017]

Typhoo1961, I know she did not do it for the money. I want to see her get compensation. Tim Bosma daughter will grow up without a father who really loved her and he was a very good father. He had a good job and that income is gone.
Just like the Muzzo family (hope that is right spelling) they lost all their children and can you imagine how that feels or to have a loved one killed in a senseless, horrific way.
No amount of money can ever undo the horrific ordeal and loss of loved ones.
Over 3 years Sharlene had to wait for justice and then a very long trial with terrible things to have to hear.
I hope & pray she can find some peace and one step to the healing was to know they got the strongest sentence they could.
I also pray for the Muzzo family that they will be able to find some peace in spite of an unimaginable horror happened to them.

 

[Inspector_North]

• DM then continued on to his hangar and then the farm, eventually stashing LB's body in the barn. I'm curious why he stopped by the hangar. Someone else had to be there, as evidenced by the photo of him working on the plane (the photo was taken on DM's phone but it's not a selfie). Meanwhile, LB's body was in the back of DM's vehicle? Hm...

Any thoughts?

First things first. Thank's Bill for your excellent work.

As for who was at the hanger. Did SS not mention leaving a time card for DM once? I'm sure that there are records of who was working at the hanger. I would guess SS since he seemed to love what he was doing for the Millard's, and we heard how he was putting in plenty of hours during the TB trial.

 

[Kamille]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/laura-babcock-trial-millard-testify-1.4399071

Thanks for bringing this article to our attention Miranda. Interesting to note that DM has NOT been assigned an "amicus" or assisting attorney.

An amicus is also sometimes appointed by a judge to assist a self-represented defendant, and that person could theoretically examine Millard — but that hasn't happened in this case so far.

"A ... situation where an accused has no lawyer, has chosen to represent himself and nobody has been appointed to assist is a very rare coming together of events that you would rarely see in first-degree murder trials," Crew told CBC News.

Can we assume that he was refused an assisting attorney because it has been established that he has the funds to pay for one of his own? :waitasec:

Also interesting to note that Adam Carter wrote that article today. Can we assume that he'll be back in the courtroom this week?

 

[Tealgrove]

We have vague and conflicting reporting for the evidence on July 3 and 4. Until we get more concrete info, here's my best guess at the timeline of what happened:

• LB is murdered at Maple Gate sometime between July 3 at 7pm and July 4 at 10am.
• In the morning, before 10:43am, DM rolls her body up in the blue tarp and texts MS: "I rolled my first spliff".
• LB's body is loaded into a vehicle (WM's blue-green van perhaps?).
• At 10:43am, they (DM, MS, or both) hook up LB's iPad to DM's computer. They reset it and set it up as Mark's iPad.
• Shortly afterwards, DM and MS leave Maple Gate with LB's body in the vehicle. They take LB's phone, too.
• They drive along the QEW toward MS's house in Oakville.
• As they drive over the Credit River in Mississauga, MS tosses LB's phone over the bridge into the water. This bridge is quite close to Indian Grove in Mississauga. I'm guessing they tossed LB's phone because that's also what they did with Bosma's phone, and also "if you go swimming you can find her phone".
• (Edit to add: some reports said they pinged along Lakeshore Rd, so they could have taken a detour to toss her phone in the lake rather than the river)
• From Maple Gate to Indian Grove is about a 15-20 minute drive, so if they departed shortly after resetting the iPad, they could have reached Indian Grove "around 11am", the approximate time that LB's phone last pinged.
• After tossing LB's phone, DM dropped MS off at his mom's house in Oakville.
• DM then continued on to his hangar and then the farm, eventually stashing LB's body in the barn. I'm curious why he stopped by the hangar. Someone else had to be there, as evidenced by the photo of him working on the plane (the photo was taken on DM's phone but it's not a selfie). Meanwhile, LB's body was in the back of DM's vehicle? Hm...

Any thoughts?

Also, I'm guessing that DM's text to MS on July 3: "I'll be back in 15 mins. Don't be out front," refers to going to pick up LB from Kipling Station. This could be revealing that DM and MS have a plan of some sort, and DM is bringing LB to Maple Gate and doesn't want her to know that MS is there too.

This is exactly how I see it as well so I agree on all points. I am concerned that we do have conflicting accounts and information. I'm really hoping that MM can clarify some of this timeline. I'm conflicted I guess, on MS's whereabouts, at the time of the murder. I need that to become clearer.

MOO

 

[palisadesk]

I also pray for the Muzzo family that they will be able to find some peace in spite of an unimaginable horror happened to them.

Just a point of clarification == Marco Muzzo was the impaired driver who killed the three children and grandparent of the Neville-Lake family. I am sure the family of the convicted young man has also gone through rough times (it can't be pleasant to have a famiuly member convicted of such a horrendous deed) but it's nothing to what the childless Neville-Lake family is going through and will forever.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...d-to-minimum-security-prison-reports-say.html

 

[XFP]

Woodland,, discrimination that is it, and it was the same with Laura, they thought because she was involved in drugs had a mental illness that just probably put her file in the garbage, it is typical of the TPS. Laura was moving around but she still stayed at her parent's home >
I have dealt with the TPS and they are terrible, they treat people with mental illness worse and a lot of disabled people. 51 Division one of the worst.

The TTC staff also not good. One person in the Toronto Star today said she was stranded on the TTC had a wheelchair and was ignored by TTC staff for 2 hours treated her life she was a bum.

Winter2017, that's a bit harsh. They didn't put her file in the garbage. They are human beings, hired to do a wide-ranging job and they do it as best they can. I believe they have processes in place to review cases like this.

 

[winter2017]

Palisadesk, thanks for making the correction, I realized I got the names mixed up , god forbid. They are very strong people to live with the horror that happened. Sharlene is also very strong to live with the terrible crime that happened.

 

[Oreck]

Also, I'm guessing that DM's text to MS on July 3: "I'll be back in 15 mins. Don't be out front," refers to going to pick up LB from Kipling Station. This could be revealing that DM and MS have a plan of some sort, and DM is bringing LB to Maple Gate and doesn't want her to know that MS is there too.

Does anyone know if WM carried a cell. Be interesting to know where he might be on July 3-4.

 

[Georgeo]

Typhoo1961, I know she did not do it for the money. I want to see her get compensation. Tim Bosma daughter will grow up without a father who really loved her and he was a very good father. He had a good job and that income is gone.
Just like the Muzzo family (hope that is right spelling) they lost all their children and can you imagine how that feels or to have a loved one killed in a senseless, horrific way.
No amount of money can ever undo the horrific ordeal and loss of loved ones.
Over 3 years Sharlene had to wait for justice and then a very long trial with terrible things to have to hear.
I hope & pray she can find some peace and one step to the healing was to know they got the strongest sentence they could.
I also pray for the Muzzo family that they will be able to find some peace in spite of an unimaginable horror happened to them.

Marko Muzzo was the drunk driver who killed the 3 children and the grandfather. Neville-Lake was the victims' surname.

 

[don_quixote]

Typhoo1961, I know she did not do it for the money. I want to see her get compensation. Tim Bosma daughter will grow up without a father who really loved her and he was a very good father. He had a good job and that income is gone.
Just like the Muzzo family (hope that is right spelling) they lost all their children and can you imagine how that feels or to have a loved one killed in a senseless, horrific way.
No amount of money can ever undo the horrific ordeal and loss of loved ones.
Over 3 years Sharlene had to wait for justice and then a very long trial with terrible things to have to hear.
I hope & pray she can find some peace and one step to the healing was to know they got the strongest sentence they could.
I also pray for the Muzzo family that they will be able to find some peace in spite of an unimaginable horror happened to them.

And for money too. I don't see anything wrong with demanding and receiving compensation. After all the good words are said, she has bills to pay.

 

[Stratocaster]

We have vague and conflicting reporting for the evidence on July 3 and 4. Until we get more concrete info, here's my best guess at the timeline of what happened:

• LB is murdered at Maple Gate sometime between July 3 at 7pm and July 4 at 10am.
• In the morning, before 10:43am, DM rolls her body up in the blue tarp and texts MS: "I rolled my first spliff".
• LB's body is loaded into a vehicle (WM's blue-green van perhaps?).
• At 10:43am, they (DM, MS, or both) hook up LB's iPad to DM's computer. They reset it and set it up as Mark's iPad.
• Shortly afterwards, DM and MS leave Maple Gate with LB's body in the vehicle. They take LB's phone, too.
• They drive along the QEW toward MS's house in Oakville.
• As they drive over the Credit River in Mississauga, MS tosses LB's phone over the bridge into the water. This bridge is quite close to Indian Grove in Mississauga. I'm guessing they tossed LB's phone because that's also what they did with Bosma's phone, and also "if you go swimming you can find her phone".
• (Edit to add: some reports said they pinged along Lakeshore Rd, so they could have taken a detour to toss her phone in the lake rather than the river)
• From Maple Gate to Indian Grove is about a 15-20 minute drive, so if they departed shortly after resetting the iPad, they could have reached Indian Grove "around 11am", the approximate time that LB's phone last pinged.
• After tossing LB's phone, DM dropped MS off at his mom's house in Oakville.
• DM then continued on to his hangar and then the farm, eventually stashing LB's body in the barn. I'm curious why he stopped by the hangar. Someone else had to be there, as evidenced by the photo of him working on the plane (the photo was taken on DM's phone but it's not a selfie). Meanwhile, LB's body was in the back of DM's vehicle? Hm...

Any thoughts?

Also, I'm guessing that DM's text to MS on July 3: "I'll be back in 15 mins. Don't be out front," refers to going to pick up LB from Kipling Station. This could be revealing that DM and MS have a plan of some sort, and DM is bringing LB to Maple Gate and doesn't want her to know that MS is there too.

Great timeline spreadsheet and many do appreciate the time consuming task. One unknown for me that I am under the assumption that MM is at Maplegate with the accused on the 3/4th as per MS text about taking a bath with her. Was she driven home late on the 3rd, or did she stay the night and when, and with whom, did she leave on the 4th?

 

[matou]

The Mob Reporter: WHAT THE JURY SAW: Laura Babcock Trial — “Purchase of Eliminator” | What's on Millard’s computers 8

[video=youtube;poM7DbYAXjI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poM7DbYAXjI[/video]

 

[ABro]

This article may shed more light on it for you. For instance:

"In Toronto, police receive more than one missing person report per day and recently told the Star they file as many as 3,000 reports each year."

https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/...ck_leaves_lingering_questions_for_police.html

Add to this the 911 calls they attend to daily and follow-up with other cases makes for a busy load imo.

Except the vast majority of those missing people are located within 48 hours. They don't vanish off the face of the earth.

I'm not sure why people are trying to excuse the Toronto police. Things might have been very different if they had done their job and interviewed the last person Laura contacted.

I will be very interested to see what comes of Shawn Lerner's complaint.

 

[MsSherlock]

Great timeline spreadsheet and many do appreciate the time consuming task. One unknown for me that I am under the assumption that MM is at Maplegate with the accused on the 3/4th as per MS text about taking a bath with her. Was she driven home late on the 3rd, or did she stay the night and when, and with whom, did she leave on the 4th?

Perhaps DM needed to get some tape or something from the hangar- question I have is why would he pose by the plane and who took that pic? How messed is the guy? He's got a dead body in the van and he takes the time to pop into the hangar for a photo op? Almost as bad as stopping for Booster Juice on the way home. The guy is such a psycho, a fresh kill doesn't even fizz on him- it's just another day in DM's paradise. I'm of the impression that MM and MS were hanging out in the tub at Maple Gate. I am confused with the timeline though. I'm hoping that she'll remember the day that MS got his iPad. MOO

 

[Sweetnis]

The door in the picture is a dark blue or black chevy Yukon. You can tell by the shape and design of the door. Door sticker position also gives it away...

 

[Kamille]

The door in the picture is a dark blue or black chevy Yukon. You can tell by the shape and design of the door. Door sticker position also gives it away...

Welcome Sweetnis :welcome:

Do you have this type of vehicle and do you have a pic for comparison? Although we know that DM had a Yukon, there now seems to be a Dodge Caravan, likely in the magnesium colour, in question.

TIA

 

[Kamille]

The Mob Reporter: WHAT THE JURY SAW: Laura Babcock Trial — “Purchase of Eliminator” | What's on Millard’s computers 8

[video=youtube;poM7DbYAXjI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poM7DbYAXjI[/video]

Maybe there's a chance The Mob Reporter will put the July 3-5 texts up tonight?

 

[Satchie]

We have vague and conflicting reporting for the evidence on July 3 and 4. Until we get more concrete info, here's my best guess at the timeline of what happened:

• LB is murdered at Maple Gate sometime between July 3 at 7pm and July 4 at 10am.
• In the morning, before 10:43am, DM rolls her body up in the blue tarp and texts MS: "I rolled my first spliff".
• LB's body is loaded into a vehicle (WM's blue-green van perhaps?).
• At 10:43am, they (DM, MS, or both) hook up LB's iPad to DM's computer. They reset it and set it up as Mark's iPad.
• Shortly afterwards, DM and MS leave Maple Gate with LB's body in the vehicle. They take LB's phone, too.
• They drive along the QEW toward MS's house in Oakville.
• As they drive over the Credit River in Mississauga, MS tosses LB's phone over the bridge into the water. This bridge is quite close to Indian Grove in Mississauga. I'm guessing they tossed LB's phone because that's also what they did with Bosma's phone, and also "if you go swimming you can find her phone".
• (Edit to add: some reports said they pinged along Lakeshore Rd, so they could have taken a detour to toss her phone in the lake rather than the river)
• From Maple Gate to Indian Grove is about a 15-20 minute drive, so if they departed shortly after resetting the iPad, they could have reached Indian Grove "around 11am", the approximate time that LB's phone last pinged.
• After tossing LB's phone, DM dropped MS off at his mom's house in Oakville.
• DM then continued on to his hangar and then the farm, eventually stashing LB's body in the barn. I'm curious why he stopped by the hangar. Someone else had to be there, as evidenced by the photo of him working on the plane (the photo was taken on DM's phone but it's not a selfie). Meanwhile, LB's body was in the back of DM's vehicle? Hm...

Any thoughts?

Also, I'm guessing that DM's text to MS on July 3: "I'll be back in 15 mins. Don't be out front," refers to going to pick up LB from Kipling Station. This could be revealing that DM and MS have a plan of some sort, and DM is bringing LB to Maple Gate and doesn't want her to know that MS is there too.

Is it possible the phone was thrown in the water at 11 pm?

I notice this from Nov 2 thread, post number 208 (not sure how to link)

Shannon Martin‏ @ShannonMartinTV 10m10 minutes ago
Rubello now shows us Babcock's phone records from midnight July 4, to 11pm the same night.

It's all incoming calls and texts.

DM sent a text message that day (at an unknown time )to MS that he had the dog, was going to Waterloo, and would be back by 4pm. This is consistent with the photos of DM at the hangar and at the farm at 2:40 pm. Why would he send that message if he'd just dropped MS off in Oakville with the body in the car, heading to the hangar?

Makes more sense to me DM drove MS home that night (after meeting back at Maplegate to do tar), and threw away the phone in the dark.

 

[Sweetnis]

Welcome Sweetnis :welcome:

Do you have this type of vehicle and do you have a pic for comparison? Although we know that DM had a Yukon, there now seems to be a Dodge Caravan, likely in the magnesium colour, in question.

TIA

I tried to post it with the picture of the tarp. Did not work so well. lol. When the picture is taken you can see the door of the truck open at the right of the photo. This is a chevy Yukon door.