Babcock Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #3

[mimimic]

Where can we see the phone pings? Maybe when DM left to go to the Hanger at 1am, on his own, without MS, he brought blue tarp, on his own. Then the go together, later.

 

[Kamille]

I tried to post it with the picture of the tarp. Did not work so well. lol. When the picture is taken you can see the door of the truck open at the right of the photo. This is a chevy Yukon door.

Yes we've seen the door in the tarp photo. I meant do you have a picture of a Yukon like DM's to compare? Or do you actually have a Yukon like DM's?

 

[Sweetnis]

I have owned chevys all my life. Have one right now. This is why I say it is a chevy door, DM yukon

 

[mimimic]

This because, I see nothing that says MS left Maplegate to go anywhere with DM on the 4th

Where can we see the phone pings? Maybe when DM left to go to the Hanger at 1am, on his own, without MS, he brought blue tarp, on his own. Then the go together, later.

 

[Satchie]

This because, I see nothing that says MS left Maplegate to go anywhere with DM on the 4th

The timing and maps of cell phone pings from all the phones were presented Nov 2 afternoon by a police officer who compiled a thick report for the jury. Unfortunately the only journalist in court seems not to have covered that evidence past when Laura arrived at Maplegate, and I haven't seen it released. So it's a very murky area. I believe it was in the Crown's opening statement that the 3 phone travelled together along the lakeshore, when hers disappeared.

 

[Claroon]

We have vague and conflicting reporting for the evidence on July 3 and 4. Until we get more concrete info, here's my best guess at the timeline of what happened:

• LB is murdered at Maple Gate sometime between July 3 at 7pm and July 4 at 10am.
• In the morning, before 10:43am, DM rolls her body up in the blue tarp and texts MS: "I rolled my first spliff".
• LB's body is loaded into a vehicle (WM's blue-green van perhaps?).
• At 10:43am, they (DM, MS, or both) hook up LB's iPad to DM's computer. They reset it and set it up as Mark's iPad.
• Shortly afterwards, DM and MS leave Maple Gate with LB's body in the vehicle. They take LB's phone, too.
• They drive along the QEW toward MS's house in Oakville.
• As they drive over the Credit River in Mississauga, MS tosses LB's phone over the bridge into the water. This bridge is quite close to Indian Grove in Mississauga. I'm guessing they tossed LB's phone because that's also what they did with Bosma's phone, and also "if you go swimming you can find her phone".
• (Edit to add: some reports said they pinged along Lakeshore Rd, so they could have taken a detour to toss her phone in the lake rather than the river)
• From Maple Gate to Indian Grove is about a 15-20 minute drive, so if they departed shortly after resetting the iPad, they could have reached Indian Grove "around 11am", the approximate time that LB's phone last pinged.
• After tossing LB's phone, DM dropped MS off at his mom's house in Oakville.
• DM then continued on to his hangar and then the farm, eventually stashing LB's body in the barn. I'm curious why he stopped by the hangar. Someone else had to be there, as evidenced by the photo of him working on the plane (the photo was taken on DM's phone but it's not a selfie). Meanwhile, LB's body was in the back of DM's vehicle? Hm...

Any thoughts?

Also, I'm guessing that DM's text to MS on July 3: "I'll be back in 15 mins. Don't be out front," refers to going to pick up LB from Kipling Station. This could be revealing that DM and MS have a plan of some sort, and DM is bringing LB to Maple Gate and doesn't want her to know that MS is there too.

I'm going to check a few details. I had the impression DM might have gone to Waterloo with the spliff on his own. Here's one detail for instance where he is telling MS he has Pedo...and the msg from JV is noon so this is before noon:

Now seeing a message sent from Millard to Smich on July 4, 2012. "I have Pedo with me. Gone to waterloo. Back before 4pm. Left some dough on the coffee table in basement. Black tar negro!"
by Adam Carter November 9 at 10:48 AM

Now a message from Javier Villada to Millard on July 4 just after noon, asking if they're going to Waterloo today. Millard responds not today.[by Adam Carter November 9 at 10:49 AM /I]

 

[Claroon]

We have vague and conflicting reporting for the evidence on July 3 and 4. Until we get more concrete info, here's my best guess at the timeline of what happened:

• LB is murdered at Maple Gate sometime between July 3 at 7pm and July 4 at 10am.
• In the morning, before 10:43am, DM rolls her body up in the blue tarp and texts MS: "I rolled my first spliff".
• LB's body is loaded into a vehicle (WM's blue-green van perhaps?).
• At 10:43am, they (DM, MS, or both) hook up LB's iPad to DM's computer. They reset it and set it up as Mark's iPad.
• Shortly afterwards, DM and MS leave Maple Gate with LB's body in the vehicle. They take LB's phone, too.
• They drive along the QEW toward MS's house in Oakville.
• As they drive over the Credit River in Mississauga, MS tosses LB's phone over the bridge into the water. This bridge is quite close to Indian Grove in Mississauga. I'm guessing they tossed LB's phone because that's also what they did with Bosma's phone, and also "if you go swimming you can find her phone".
• (Edit to add: some reports said they pinged along Lakeshore Rd, so they could have taken a detour to toss her phone in the lake rather than the river)
• From Maple Gate to Indian Grove is about a 15-20 minute drive, so if they departed shortly after resetting the iPad, they could have reached Indian Grove "around 11am", the approximate time that LB's phone last pinged.
• After tossing LB's phone, DM dropped MS off at his mom's house in Oakville.
• DM then continued on to his hangar and then the farm, eventually stashing LB's body in the barn. I'm curious why he stopped by the hangar. Someone else had to be there, as evidenced by the photo of him working on the plane (the photo was taken on DM's phone but it's not a selfie). Meanwhile, LB's body was in the back of DM's vehicle? Hm...

Any thoughts?

Also, I'm guessing that DM's text to MS on July 3: "I'll be back in 15 mins. Don't be out front," refers to going to pick up LB from Kipling Station. This could be revealing that DM and MS have a plan of some sort, and DM is bringing LB to Maple Gate and doesn't want her to know that MS is there too.

I like your idea about the "don't be out in front." Excellent. I agree.

On another point, if DM messages MS about being on his way back, it implies he dropped off the spliff alone imo.

There's a message from Smich to Millard on July 4 around 3:21 p.m. "How's the spliff?" Millard responds "On my way back. I'm stopping for booster juice. you or marlena want something?"
by Adam Carter November 9 at 10:55 AM

 

[Claroon]

I wonder if MM witnessed MS and DM loading the Eliminator. She was likely asked to stay in the truck while the two "talked to the girl outback". Would she wait in the truck for over an hour? I guess we will find out.

When he said, in the front or out front I assumed he meant like maybe cleaning the washrooms and front of the hangar or something. IMO

 

[Spartygirl]

Yeah Tapatalk doesn't show signatures.

Here's the timeline:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Hb6kEtpLa8cHCVorBuy4yqfHymGvhfHeM6s8QMWGVW8/pubhtml

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I've been following along and after reading this time line and MS texts to DM, I mean, seriously?? He is depending on DM being his bankroll according to his text messages ...he's always whining about needing money and how he blew through money and he is riding on DM shirt tail instead of just going out and getting a real job !! OMG....If you read MS texts it's quite obvious he would do anything at all for DM, anything !! Ok, rant of over, carry on

Sent from my SM-T520 using Tapatalk

 

[Spartygirl]

I've been following along and after reading this time line and MS texts to DM, I mean, seriously?? He is depending on DM being his bankroll according to his text messages ...he's always whining about needing money and how he blew through money and he is riding on DM shirt tail instead of just going out and getting a real job !! OMG....If you read MS texts it's quite obvious he would do anything at all for DM, anything !! Ok, rant of over, carry on

Sent from my SM-T520 using Tapatalk

Also, Thank you to all who are providing the tweets and for the time line !!

Sent from my SM-T520 using Tapatalk

 

[mozzagirl]

Maybe. It seems like a strange shot. Like it was taken from a surveillance video. I think it is male... laying on a towel that is too small. Is that a pair of boots beside him?

IMO, the blue area beside the person laying on the ground seems to be a blue tarp. Am I the only one that sees it? It is a large rectangular like shape and the same blue that most tarps are.

Anyone else see that too? Were they comparing someone laying down beside it for sizing?

 

[Claroon]

IMO, the blue area beside the person laying on the ground seems to be a blue tarp. Am I the only one that sees it? It is a large rectangular like shape and the same blue that most tarps are.

Anyone else see that too? Were they comparing someone laying down beside it for sizing?

I believe it is the pool you are looking at.

 

[Claroon]

Guess the moderator didn't get it that my photo of the gnome was a spoof on MS with his pitchfork. Seems to have been removed.

 

[mozzagirl]

Where is the timeline of July 4 does it fit in that DM went to Sleep Country to order the new mattress? I am not sure if the time of day was mentioned for that in tweets.

 

[Chelseab]

Just a random thought- if MS isn’t charged with WM’s murder, does this mean they will likely call him to testify against DM? He probably knows what happened there and I’m wondering if he’ll throw DM under the bus. Long ways away, but just a thought.

 

[mozzagirl]

I believe it is the pool you are looking at.

I thought that at first but that area looks very one-dimensional to me. Not at all like a pool, IMO. Just a solid blue colour.

 

[huntergerrard]

“More than 1” is really understating it I think. I feel like there’s at least one per day in each of the 17 divisions.

I follow Toronto Police Services on Twitter and there's usually multiple missing person reports a day. Obviously social media was different back when LB went missing, though.

 

[swedie]

I thought that at first but that area looks very one-dimensional to me. Not at all like a pool, IMO. Just a solid blue colour.

The pool cover is on the pool. In the first photo you can see the roller for the pool cover at the end of the pool and there is no pool cover wound up on it.. MOO.

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

I couldn’t agree more. It reeks of discrimination and is so very upsetting. I truly believe that after all is said and done, the Babcock family should file a civil claim against the Toronto police. It would be justified.

I completely agree with you. I hope that the family will consider doing that. It would be interesting to know, Grey-St, if any internal discipline has been meted out within the police department, and if any officers were held accountable? It is a huge issue that needs to be addressed and drastically changed within the entire police force.

I am furious and heartbroken, and I can’t imagine what the families are going through. No words.



Edited for spelling error

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

This article may shed more light on it for you. For instance:

"In Toronto, police receive more than one missing person report per day and recently told the Star they file as many as 3,000 reports each year."

https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/...ck_leaves_lingering_questions_for_police.html

Add to this the 911 calls they attend to daily and follow-up with other cases makes for a busy load imo.

Certainly a busy load. I am not denying that. However, it is inexcusable that with all the information Shawn Lerner talked to the police about, there was enough reason for them to begin an investigation immediately. And I truly believe that they just didn’t give a gosh darn because of Laura’s background, and that reeks of prejudice. Had she not been an escort, taken drugs and had mental health issues, I think things would have been handled properly. IMHO.

Just look at the immediacy with which the police began their investigation when Tim was reported missing. Exemplary. Laura deserved the same. All missing people with strong evidence such as Shawn gave them should be handled diligently from the beginning.

We are all human beings. The police shouldn’t judge then pick and choose who they are going to serve.

IMHO the police officers who handled the disappearance of Laura and the “suicide” of WM are indirectly responsible for Tim’s death and should be held accountable.


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