Babcock Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #6

[Seastrand]

Re the Barrels.

Maybe they were used to store the body until the 23rd.

Re the additional blue barrel - Covering the holes = an attempt to cover the smell?

 

[Inspector_North]

Re the Barrels.

Maybe they were used to store the body until the 23rd.

Re the additional blue barrel - Covering the holes = an attempt to cover the smell?

That could be why they kept it around, but the modification to me suggests it was not modified for that purpose. But DM prides himself on thinking outside the box, so who knows. MOO

 

[saulgoodman]

I guess you are right! It’s not like they are put to death right away. Could take many years. I didn’t think of it that way.

Its hard to believe the extra cost, isn't it? And yes, I totally agree with you about innocent people put to death.

 

[saulgoodman]

Re the Barrels.

Maybe they were used to store the body until the 23rd.

Re the additional blue barrel - Covering the holes = an attempt to cover the smell?

That's what I originally thought when the Crown mentioned several barrels at the farm. And it was bought to the public's knowledge that DM was reading a book about Jeffery Dahmer during the TB trial. Dahmer, dismembered victims and stored some them in plastic barrels.

 

[andreww]

I guess you are right! It’s not like they are put to death right away. Could take many years. I didn’t think of it that way.

And I believe that they are also automatically granted an appeal. By the time each case goes completely through the appeals process, it can be decades later.

I feel the death penalty is too easy an option. I just wish they didn't make prison so comfortable. No pizza, no TV. Just gruel and water. Make guys like Millard really miserable for the rest of his life. Thats justice.

 

[andreww]

Its hard to believe the extra cost, isn't it? And yes, I totally agree with you about innocent people put to death.

I find it hard to believe that innocent people are put to death these days. Given the number of appeals in the process, it just seems very unlikely that the same errors could be made over and over.

 

[JPC]

I find it hard to believe that innocent people are put to death these days. Given the number of appeals in the process, it just seems very unlikely that the same errors could be made over and over.

Why are we talking about the death penalty when it is not an option in Canada?


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[winter2017]

i would like to see it like that too , make it as uncomfortable as possible and only give them water and basic food.

And I believe that they are also automatically granted an appeal. By the time each case goes completely through the appeals process, it can be decades later.

I feel the death penalty is too easy an option. I just wish they didn't make prison so comfortable. No pizza, no TV. Just gruel and water. Make guys like Millard really miserable for the rest of his life. Thats justice.

 

[mimimic]

Yes and no on this. I think we are on the right track, although he also texted MS on July 4th saying it was too slow. So more air would be needed i would think. So likely this could act as you say as an adjustable flue. I wonder if the the top and bottom lock together some how or if they made it so they could have access to add fuel/wood and i hate to say, to stoke it. Albeit that would probably prove to be awkward.QUOTE=Inspector_North;13793287]After taking a careful second look, I wonder if it was a last attempt at making it work? The condition of the blue drum tells me it was never subjected to heat. When you look carefully at how the blue drum was attached , it may have been a damper of sorts to adjust "ingress" air flow, and/or cut down on sparks and large hot cinders. It does look like the two pieces still fit together, but the blue drum would extend over the holes in the bottom drum with the landing gear. The bottom drum does not have holes all around, and would suggest the pipes welded on the top part could be used to rotate the top drum from the bottom drum to adjust the damping. MOO

The other thing about the homemade incinerator, is fuel. If it was being used for garbage, garbage provides much of the fuel in many cases. Never heard how they were planning to fuel this contraption. Even to get the garbage burning started.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Inspector_North]

Yes and no on this. I think we are on the right track, although he also texted MS on July 4th saying it was too slow. So more air would be needed i would think. So likely this could act as you say as an adjustable flue. I wonder if the the top and bottom lock together some how or if they made it so they could have access to add fuel/wood and i hate to say, to stoke it. Albeit that would probably prove to be awkward.

Good point. I did consider that DM was calling for more ingress air flow, and my thinking was that SS riddled the bottom drum with holes. And that another test proved that it may have required ingress air adjusting via damping or a flue, or the blue drum was just covering any viewing of the burn. I think the Jun 4th mods are the same mod DM was dreaming up on May 30th.

From Bill's timeline. Is this text about going over the mod not to SS?

'Jun 4 10:34 am Millard texts Smich: "great. I'll come by later today to do a paycheque, drop off that ball, and go over incinerator mods."

Jun 4 11:02 am Schlatman texts Millard: "Ok cool. T4's this week?"

MOO

 

[andreww]

i would like to see it like that too , make it as uncomfortable as possible and only give them water and basic food.

I remember reading about Karla Homolka's days in prison and thinking that she had a more active life than I did in many ways. Sounded like summer camp.

 

[Night_is_Mine]

I don't think MM was at maple gate the dates in question. Neither crown nor Dell mentioned her there. If she was there and heard ANYTHING unusual the crown would have her say it. On the flip side if she heard nothing Dell would have say it too.

 

[andreww]

I don't think MM was at maple gate the dates in question. Neither crown nor Dell mentioned her there. If she was there and heard ANYTHING unusual the crown would have her say it. On the flip side if she heard nothing Dell would have say it too.

Many good reasons on both sides for not bringing her up. But I think it is quite probable that she was there.

 

[Night_is_Mine]

Many good reasons on both sides for not bringing her up. But I think it is quite probable that she was there.

What do you think some would be? Dell wanted to put it on MS in the letters (yet he made no mention of MM in them) if MS was doing coke with LB would MM take kindly to just the 2 of them at night in a room by themselves doing drugs? Plus didn't she say she never even heard nor met LB prior to the charges being laid?

 

[gremlingrrl]

I remember reading about Karla Homolka's days in prison and thinking that she had a more active life than I did in many ways. Sounded like summer camp.

And now that she's out (and further educated, and is married with children of her own), she has the luxury of threatening legal action towards the general public and media who are "infringing" on her privacy and other rights. Boo hoo. IMO the only way for justice to be served in that backwards, upside-down deal with the devil is for society to hound her for the rest of her days.

I seem to recall, more than 20 years ago, when the public was certain that as soon as she was out of prison and back in day-to-day society, she'd be, um, "removed" immediately and permanently. Nah, she gets to go about her life without even so much as the media heckling her periodically.

 

[Inspector_North]

I don't think MM was at maple gate the dates in question. Neither crown nor Dell mentioned her there. If she was there and heard ANYTHING unusual the crown would have her say it. On the flip side if she heard nothing Dell would have say it too.

Let's flip that thinking, and try to show when she left.

Jul 3 3:09 pm Millard texts Smich: "how bout the white & brown paint over the side entrance? no rain there."
Jul 3 3:21 pm Smich texts Millard: "Yea I'm taking a bath first with Marlena."

They were together at DM's according to texts and pings. MS is planning on doing some work after his bath with MM. And it's been mentioned that MS and MM were attached at the hip. To the point that he brought her along for the July 23rd event.


Jul 4 3:23 pm Millard texts Smich: "on my way back. I'm stopping for booster juice. you or marlena want something?"

There is no indication she left or returned between Jul 3rd 3:09 pm. and Jul 4 3:23 pm. But yet she is there Jul 3rd in the afternoon, and Jul 4th in the afternoon. MOO

 

[andreww]

What do you think some would be? Dell wanted to put it on MS in the letters (yet he made no mention of MM in them) if MS was doing coke with LB would MM take kindly to just the 2 of them at night in a room by themselves doing drugs? Plus didn't she say she never even heard nor met LB prior to the charges being laid?

You make a good argument, but Millard is crafting fiction in that letter and I'm convinced that MM isn't telling the entire truth either. From what we have heard about MM we know that she was always with Smich. In fact Smich seems to not like her socializing without him. She doesn't have a job at that point and she doesn't seem to like going home to her parents. We know she was there in the late afternoon having a bath, and we know she was there in the morning. There have been no texts released that show she was anywhere but with Smich that night.

For me it comes down to Smich being oblivious to what was going to happen that night. The fact that he is begging for food money right at the time of the crime tells me there was no plan between him and Millard in place. Maybe Smich knew that LB might eventually be murdered, but I don't think he was aware that night.

Likely the subject was never broached in court because she never heard for saw anything, or she simply didn't remember anything out of the ordinary. If the crown asks, it looks bad for them. Why did she not hear a gun? So they just don't bring it up. Or possibly she might or might not have heard something but that testimony disallowed for one reason or another. For instance, if she was passed out from using drugs at the time, is it fair for Millard to ask if she heard something? Maybe we'll find out more after the trial.

 

[Night_is_Mine]

Let's flip that thinking, and try to show when she left.

Jul 3 3:09 pm Millard texts Smich: "how bout the white & brown paint over the side entrance? no rain there."
Jul 3 3:21 pm Smich texts Millard: "Yea I'm taking a bath first with Marlena."

They were together at DM's according to texts and pings. MS is planning on doing some work after his bath with MM. And it's been mentioned that MS and MM were attached at the hip. To the point that he brought her along for the July 23rd event.


Jul 4 3:23 pm Millard texts Smich: "on my way back. I'm stopping for booster juice. you or marlena want something?"

There is no indication she left or returned between Jul 3rd 3:09 pm. and Jul 4 3:23 pm. But yet she is there Jul 3rd in the afternoon, and Jul 4th in the afternoon. MOO

Hmmm so I wonder why neither side brought her up

 

[Inspector_North]

Hmmm so I wonder why neither side brought her up

I see andreww provided some reasoning about possible why's.

 

[andreww]

Let's flip that thinking, and try to show when she left.

Jul 3 3:09 pm Millard texts Smich: "how bout the white & brown paint over the side entrance? no rain there."
Jul 3 3:21 pm Smich texts Millard: "Yea I'm taking a bath first with Marlena."

They were together at DM's according to texts and pings. MS is planning on doing some work after his bath with MM. And it's been mentioned that MS and MM were attached at the hip. To the point that he brought her along for the July 23rd event.


Jul 4 3:23 pm Millard texts Smich: "on my way back. I'm stopping for booster juice. you or marlena want something?"

There is no indication she left or returned between Jul 3rd 3:09 pm. and Jul 4 3:23 pm. But yet she is there Jul 3rd in the afternoon, and Jul 4th in the afternoon. MOO

Millard left early on the 4th, it seems without speaking to Smich. So the fact that he asked about booster juice indicates that he was under the impression that MM was there. With the nefarious activity that went on the night before I think Millard would be well aware of who was or wasn't in the house. So the fact that he doesn't ask if MM is there tells me she never left.