GUILTY Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #1

[Quester]

US teen and boyfriend on suicide watch after Bali suitcase murder arrest

Reuters reported that the murdered woman’s daughter Heather Mack, 19, and her boyfriend Tommy Schaefer, 21, were depressed after they were detained and both were on suicide watch.


Police say they have strong evidence against the detained pair, and the FBI has sent an agent to join the probe.

Under the Indonesian legal system, they will not be formally charged until they appear in court at the start of a trial.


http://www.9news.com.au/world/2014/...e-murder-on-suicide-watch#SgoDQlQ5aZvkGoQP.99

Reality must be sinking in!

Wonder who's going to be first to start talking trash about the other???

BUT, sounds like they're both in this deep!

 

[seattlechiquita]

Hubby didn't exactly leave a huge ''estate'' when he died -- the windfall came 5 years after his death....

''Mack left behind a $150,000 Chicago condo and a bank account worth about $1,800 when he died in 2006, according to court records filed by his now-deceased widow, Sheila von Wiese-Mack"

http://www.suntimes.com/29354459-76...in-a-cruise-line-settlement.html#.U_RMVJUg9jq

That is still not a lot of money I don't think.

 

[Kamille]

The same weekend Heather and her mother left for Bali, Tommy contacted his ex to see if he could come visit her.
"The ex said Schaefer reached out to her again the weekend of Aug. 2-3, days before he was to fly to Indonesia."He asked if he could take the bus to see me, but I told him I had plans that weekend."
http://www.oakpark.com/News/Articles/8-19-2014/Complex-portrait-emerges-of-Tommy-Schaefer/

One of the police reports tells of Heather taking topless photos of herself and sending them to a guy, promising him sex and $1000 for "losing a bet."
http://www.scribd.com/doc/237232396/Oak-Park-Police-Reports-Sheila-Von-Wiese-Mack-Heather-Mack

I'm thinking Tommy's loyalty was less about love than money.

I've been following along with this one and I've read all the posts in the thread. Somewhere along the line someone posted a pic of TS and HM together 9 months ago. There was also comment that HM did not appear anywhere on his social media until one fairly recent post on his Facebook.

Another post had an article stating that his deceased girlfriend was going to school in South Africa. So it's entirely possible that while she was in school, out of the country, he was seeing other girls, including Heather. He doesn't come off as the "loyal" type IMO.

Now we've got the latest girlfriend going out of the country on a vacation with her mother for a couple of weeks. So he tries to set himself up with an ex while she's gone for "companionship" (pun intended, I read about his escort website too lol) When that doesn't work out, and HM is likely burning up his phone with complaints about her vacation with her mother and asking him to come there, he likely sees an opportunity for a free trip to Bali. Hence the rush on the passport he posted on his Facebook. Plane tickets can be purchased online with a credit card number, no need to have the actual card. No doubt HM at least has all her mother's card numbers written down. So he takes the free ticket and heads to Bali to meet HM. No doubt SWM was livid when he showed up, and voiced her displeasure at once again being duped and used by her daughter. The fight in the lobby may have been about her refusing to let him stay in their room and telling them he already got a free plane ticket, courtesy of ripping her off once again, now he can figure out a way to get his own room.

I'm still on the fence about whether HM had a plan to kill her mother while on vacation and wanted TS there to assist her. Or whether it was all a culmination of everything between mother and daughter from years back that just exploded in one fatal evening.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

I also noticed that their previous home was purchased for $650,000 July 2013, and is now back on the market, originally listed for 1.7 million. I assume it had extensive renovations done. But what I found interesting was the property taxes....$28,000 per year. That must have been taking a good chunk out of the settlement if SWM wasn't working. No wonder she sold it. Can't imagine the other expenses for a house that size.

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/647-Linden-Ave-Oak-Park-IL-60302/3802838_zpid/

 

[Leomoon80]

It's a bit bizarre that the young couple thought they would get away with this. I don't understand why they didn't just get out of Bali ASAP - and why they didn't dump the suitcase somewhere rather than leaving it in the possession of a taxi driver to buy themselves more time.

Maybe they totally freaked out and panicked - because I'm not seeing a whole lot of rational thought going into their 'getaway' plan.

About as stupid as they are mean

The taxi driver then waited two foreign guests who are checked out. The foreign guests could enter a large suitcase wrapped in a cloth, and put in the trunk of taxi, and three small suitcases placed in the front seat. However, after waiting up to two hours, two guests were not returned to the taxi. The taxi driver then reported to hotel security. Security guard then suggested the taxi driver took the car and the suitcase to the police station. Because the hotel security guard suspicious suitcase bleed.
http://www.baliorti.com/2014/08/foun...itizen-in.html

He probably was thinking, "Dumb Americans!"

 

[Quester]

Tues, 8/12/14; 3:45a SWM was last spotted on CCTV walking around the hotel lobby
​

* * *
So ... did HM dress up as her mother and parade around the lobby at ~3:45am Tues??? :notgood:

 

[seattlechiquita]

It's a bit bizarre that the young couple thought they would get away with this. I don't understand why they didn't just get out of Bali ASAP - and why they didn't dump the suitcase somewhere rather than leaving it in the possession of a taxi driver to buy themselves more time.

Maybe they totally freaked out and panicked - because I'm not seeing a whole lot of rational thought going into their 'getaway' plan.

I believe they couldn't get out of Bali because their passports were in the safe deposit box and the hotel management wouldn't open it for anyone but the victim. Indeed, they are pretty stupid. Which makes me think this was not planned. Or it was the worst plan, ever.

 

[al66pine]

That is still not a lot of money I don't think.

Yes, if that's 'all there was.' Did MSM find these $ figures thru the probate court records re Mr. Mack's will?

Is it poss that he had established a trust or trusts, maybe years before his death?
The value of those trust assets could have been in the millions.
Or not. Regardless of $ amt, neither the $ figures nor the assets (stocks, bonds, mut fd, other securities, etc) would be public.

If his trusts(s) (just hypothetically, not known) held real estate,
the county recorder's public records would show 123 Main St, Anytown, IL. in the name of MrMack's trust.
And tax assessor records likewise.
But that property could be anywhere - IL,CA,NY, or even foreign.

Did anyone here see probate records themselves, or is this info coming from MSM summaries?
What about the county assessor's records re taxes for home on Linden? Billed to what name?

Just curious.

 

[seattlechiquita]

Yes, if that's 'all there was.' Did MSM find these $ figures thru the probate court records re Mr. Mack's will?

Is it poss that he had established a trust or trusts, maybe years before his death?
The value of those trust assets could have been in the millions.
Or not. Regardless of $ amt, neither the $ figures nor the assets (stocks, bonds, mut fd, other securities, etc) would be public.

If his trusts(s) (just hypothetically, not known) held real estate,
the county recorder's public records would show 123 Main St, Anytown, IL. in the name of MrMack's trust.
And tax assessor records likewise.
But that property could be anywhere - IL,CA,NY, or even foreign.

Did anyone here see probate records themselves, or is this info coming from MSM summaries?
What about the county assessor's records re taxes for home on Linden? Billed to what name?

Just curious.

From the link provided, they talk about a lawsuit settlement of half a million. That is NOT a lot of money.

http://www.suntimes.com/29354459-76...in-a-cruise-line-settlement.html#.U_RMVJUg9jq

 

[Quester]

No word yet on SWM's personal net worth ... she may have had funds apart from the marriage ...

 

[LaborDayRN]

No word yet on SWM's personal net worth ... she may have had funds apart from the marriage ...

She did have a very successful career from what I've read.

 

[seattlechiquita]

She did have a very successful career from what I've read.

There you go --- so perhaps the money came from her as an individual, not as part of a marriage. Much remains to be disclosed.

 

[Kamille]

Yes, if that's 'all there was.' Did MSM find these $ figures thru the probate court records re Mr. Mack's will?

Is it poss that he had established a trust or trusts, maybe years before his death?
The value of those trust assets could have been in the millions.
Or not. Regardless of $ amt, neither the $ figures nor the assets (stocks, bonds, mut fd, other securities, etc) would be public.

If his trusts(s) (just hypothetically, not known) held real estate,
the county recorder's public records would show 123 Main St, Anytown, IL. in the name of MrMack's trust.
And tax assessor records likewise.
But that property could be anywhere - IL,CA,NY, or even foreign.E

Did anyone here see probate records themselves, or is this info coming from MSM summaries?
What about the county assessor's records re taxes for home on Linden? Billed to what name?

Just curious.

Didn't one article say that JM updated his will about 5 days before he died? And didn't he die on a vacation? Not the cruise where he cut his foot but another vacation. Considering he has 4 adult children and one minor child at the time, it would make sense for him to want his "estate" allotted to the care and well being of only his minor child. And considering he was once again traveling, overseas I believe on that one, I can understand why he would have updated his will. This would have been about 5 years after the cruise vacation. Maybe the first vacation he decided to take after that incident. I wonder if HM was with them on that vacation? Or if it was just the two parents. Another good reason to update wills and perhaps SWM updated hers too at the time.

Now at the time, I would suppose his "estate" included the Linden house and whatever savings or other assets he had. It wasn't until the settlement from the cruise line that his "estate" was increased by that half million. SWM's assets increased by about 350 thousand as her part of the settlement.

So the way I see it, you've perhaps got two parents of a minor child going overseas on vacation and both are ensuring that if anything happens, their assets will go to the care and upbringing of their minor child. But only one of them dies on that vacation. However that is now JM's final will. Obviously since his widow, and the mother of the minor child, is still living, she would be entitled to her portion of the marital assets and she likely won in court to be the person who would ultimately get his entire estate since she is the one who is raising the minor child. So nothing was left to HM in trust or anything else. JM's wife inherited everything on the basis that, as the minor child's mother, she would be using his estate to raise and provide for his child. And she sure did. To the point where it cost her beatings, broken bones and eventually to be murdered. Poor woman. Sounds to me like she was just trying to tame this child after the loss of her father, who likely spoiled her rotten.

MOO

 

[Quester]

Regarding the following statement:

... Police last week provided CCTV footage showing the couple speaking to a taxi driver
after dropping the bloodied suitcase along with other luggage outside the hotel. ...

8/20/14: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2730017/Lawyer-says-arrested-Americans-suicide-watch.html
​

* * *

Just guessing ... but I'm thinking the following is a still of HM & TS talking with
the taxi driver and which may be from the footage referred to in above statement:


8/15/14: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...gate-murder-Chicago-socialite-Bali-hotel.html

 

[Quester]

JMO - I think Bali LE have been very crafty/clever in what info they've released and when. JMO

 

[Curious Me]

The same weekend Heather and her mother left for Bali, Tommy contacted his ex to see if he could come visit her.
"The ex said Schaefer reached out to her again the weekend of Aug. 2-3, days before he was to fly to Indonesia."He asked if he could take the bus to see me, but I told him I had plans that weekend."
http://www.oakpark.com/News/Articles/8-19-2014/Complex-portrait-emerges-of-Tommy-Schaefer/

One of the police reports tells of Heather taking topless photos of herself and sending them to a guy, promising him sex and $1000 for "losing a bet."
http://www.scribd.com/doc/237232396/Oak-Park-Police-Reports-Sheila-Von-Wiese-Mack-Heather-Mack

I'm thinking Tommy's loyalty was less about love than money.

I tried to read most of those police reports. So many calls, so many picture frames thrown!

The calls to the police span years. I can only assume Mother and Daughter had regular counseling sessions and that Heather was getting some mental health treatment for her anger issues. Mother stated a couple of times that Heather had depression, but that doesn't describe her behavior, IMO. I'd like to know if she was diagnosed or on any medication over the years? Strictly MOO, there's some kind of strange co-dependency within the mother/daughter relationship here that bothers me. It is so easy to have your parental love manipulated by a spoiled child.

It just went on and on for years, even beyond teenage rebellion, nothing seemed to improve with Heather's attitude, JMO. She didn't grow out of it. She grew into it, this role as her mother's abuser.

 

[Quester]

I found the incident reports between SWM & HM very difficult/frustrating to read through.

I don't understand SWM's apparent approach to have continually refused LE's advice/recommendation for help and SWM's having seemingly been content to just have a record made of the incident/s - OK, the first 5 incidents maybe, but 10 - 20 - 30 - 80 incidents down the road you've got to be rethinking that approach. HM just seemed to get more and more out of control and now "you know what it do"!

I believe I saw a reference to a possible dx that had been whited out and reference to a drug, also whited out, she was supposed to be taking - sorry, didn't take note of page number and I'm not willing to go back in there to provide proof.

After following these types of cases on WS, I'm seeing more and more justification for sending these types of kids off to those very, very strict boot camps, and for extended periods of time - some delinquents just seem to need a clear/strong/disciplined dose of reality. JMO

ETA: Heck - I'd probably also send the parents off to strict parenting school!

 

[Mountain Misst]

...

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/sheila-von-wiese-mack-bali-indonesia-271687641.html

I don't remember what time Sheila was discovered. I know it was 2 hours after the suitcase was left in the taxi. They say she was killed 12-14 hours prior to the discovery of her body.

Suitcase went to the taxi at 11:26am which then puts the crime as possibly around midnight according to the autopsy.
IMO that definately discounts the claimed CCTV footage of Sheila in the lobby at 3:45am.
Blood stained towels were found in garden area of the hotel - perhaps it was HM in the lobby caught on CCTV when she was off stashing evidence.

Thanks for help re the hunt for data. Coming up empty everywhere.

 

[Kamille]

I found the incident reports between SWM & HM very difficult/frustrating to read through.

I don't understand SWM's apparent approach to have continually refused LE's advice/recommendation for help and SWM's having seemingly been content to just have a record made of the incident/s - OK, the first 5 incidents maybe, but 10 - 20 - 30 - 80 incidents down the road you've got to be rethinking that approach. HM just seemed to get more and more out of control and now "you know what it do"!

I believe I saw a reference to a possible dx that had been whited out and reference to a drug, also whited out, she was supposed to be taking - sorry, didn't take note of page number and I'm not willing to go back in there to provide proof.

After following these types of cases on WS, I'm seeing more and more justification for sending these types of kids off to those very, very strict boot camps, and for extended periods of time - some delinquents just seem to need a clear/strong/disciplined dose of reality. JMO

ETA: Heck - I'd probably also send the parents off to strict parenting school!

It does appear as though SWM was getting private "help" from someone, a counsellor of some sort, for both she and HM and that at some point HM was prescribed something which she threatened to OD on in one incident where she locked her mother in her room.

I am also at a loss as to why SWM called the police for every little and big thing that happened to get it "on record" but refusing to follow through with any kind of help or charges. Perhaps this was recommended to her by her private counsellor? I bet there is a psychologist or two out there with a very big file on this family.

I was also interested in the report by what appeared to be the mother of one of JM's sons who claimed that SWM was hindering the visitation between JM and his son. So this must have been a minor child at the time of that report. The woman claimed that when she showed up to drop her son off for visitation, SWM would turn out the lights and not answer the door.

Did HM have any interaction or relationship with any of her half siblings? If not, why not? I do think she blamed her mother for everything that was troubling her. But obviously whomever they were seeing was unable to help HM and her issues ran very deep. Or they were unable to help SWM understand why enabling her daughter and not pressing real charges on her were exacerbating the problem.

MOO

 

[Jersey*Girl]

I tried to read most of those police reports. So many calls, so many picture frames thrown!

The calls to the police span years. I can only assume Mother and Daughter had regular counseling sessions and that Heather was getting some mental health treatment for her anger issues. Mother stated a couple of times that Heather had depression, but that doesn't describe her behavior, IMO. I'd like to know if she was diagnosed or on any medication over the years? Strictly MOO, there's some kind of strange co-dependency within the mother/daughter relationship here that bothers me. It is so easy to have your parental love manipulated by a spoiled child.

It just went on and on for years, even beyond teenage rebellion, nothing seemed to improve with Heather's attitude, JMO. She didn't grow out of it. She grew into it, this role as her mother's abuser.

Yes, it's incredibly troubling. Seems as though Heather was way more than a handful, more akin to a devil's spawn IMVHO.

Something bugs me, though. In those reports of police visits to their house, it's written that Sheila wouldn't let her husband's son visit (when he was under 18 for visitation), would turn out the lights & lock the doors if his mother was trying to drop him off, wouldn't let him speak with his father, etc. It makes me wonder if this could have something to do with Heather's hatred towards her mother. I also remember reading that Heather's siblings (from her father's previous marriage) haven't seen her in many many many years. If that is all true, I wonder if it'll play a factor in Heather's sentencing.