Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #1

[Errrr]

Just prior to TB's disappearance, there was still regular deliveries to MillardAir.....what would be delivered on a regular basis?

One company that made regular deliveries to the hangar tells CTV News the deliveries suddenly stopped the day after Bosma’s disappearance jhttp://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/activity-at-millard-air-hangar-not-what-airport-boss-expected-1.1302652

Lots of paint is my guess.

 

[Gumshew]

We'll start Monday with more from Igor. Where do you think they will go from there?

Video evidence tracing the truck's path, or next first person witness, e.g. MB and neighbours that saw the truck in MB's driveway, or more from DM's personal circle of associates?

I don't know what more Igor can add besides having been uneasy on the test drive, hence having to mention he was in the Israeli army. I do hope for more from DM's personal circle of associates. That should be very good. Bring them forth.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I don't know what more Igor can add besides having been uneasy on the test drive, hence having to mention he was in the Israeli army. I do hope for more from DM's personal circle of associates. That should be very good. Bring them forth.

I am thinking they will go over the time period where DM was under surveillance before his arrest, and the wiretap info (because around that time they were announcing 15 warrants/production orders, some of that has to be phone info?)

I am guessing that they will go chronologically in the order of discovery by LE?

They had expected to whip through a pile of witnesses on Thursday but they only made it through 1/3 of them.

 

[swedie]

Google maps link to where I believe the perps parked the Yukon and walked the two to three minute walk to the Bosma residence. 1230 is the Bosma's address and 1214 is the lane where I suspect the perps parked.

It's secluded with trees on both sides pretty much, and trees are blocking view from the Bosma's house. MOO.

https://www.google.ca/maps/dir/1214...167ada97834f931!2m2!1d-80.034334!2d43.1696343

Street view. Laneway on the left and you can barely see the Bosma residence on the right through a break in the trees.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.1709...4!1smrCV2qhi_EGWBNEHgu1QZw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

[loveisthemovement]

Google maps link to where I believe the perps parked the Yukon and walked the two to three minute walk to the Bosma residence. 1230 is the Bosma's address and 1214 is the lane where I suspect the perps parked.

It's secluded with trees on both sides pretty much, and trees are blocking view from the Bosma's house. MOO.

https://www.google.ca/maps/dir/1214...167ada97834f931!2m2!1d-80.034334!2d43.1696343

Street view. Laneway on the left and you can barely see the Bosma residence on the right through a break in the trees.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.1709...4!1smrCV2qhi_EGWBNEHgu1QZw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Do you still think a third person drove the Yukon? Or did they come back at some point to pick up the Yukon? I remember chatter about the Yukon being seen following the truck on video but am now wondering if Tim was gone so quickly that they came back within a few minutes and grabbed the Yukon....

 

[Tamarind]

I don't know what more Igor can add besides having been uneasy on the test drive, hence having to mention he was in the Israeli army. I do hope for more from DM's personal circle of associates. That should be very good. Bring them forth.

He didn't mention he was in the Israeli Army due to feeling uneasy. He said he was used to those specific engines when he was in the Israeli Army, which led to MS asking him what he did in the Israeli Army. IIRC

 

[SnooperDuper]

Former Israeli Defence Force member Igor Tumanenko who took a test drive with Millard and Smich the day before Bosma’s disappearance will resume testifying on Monday.

Tumanenko told the men he was familiar with truck’s diesel engine from his days in the Israeli army.

When asked what he did in the army, he responded: “You don’t want to know what I did.”

The next witness is expected to be car painter who was asked to repaint Bosma’s truck. A witness who is expected to describe Millard’s arrest and the seizure of his cellphone is also slated to be called this week.

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/02/07/tim-bosma-murder-trial-continues-monday

 

[Gumshew]

I am thinking they will go over the time period where DM was under surveillance before his arrest, and the wiretap info (because around that time they were announcing 15 warrants/production orders, some of that has to be phone info?)

I am guessing that they will go chronologically in the order of discovery by LE?

They had expected to whip through a pile of witnesses on Thursday but they only made it through 1/3 of them.

I believe there has to be some wiretap info too. That's the first thing LE thinks of doing.

If the dopey burner phone facts are any indication of how DM's mind works, or doesn't work, he will have certainly given something up to the tap.

Chronological order is as good as any for a convoluted case.

 

[Gumshew]

He didn't mention he was in the Israeli Army due to feeling uneasy. He said he was used to those specific engines when he was in the Israeli Army, which led to MS asking him what he did in the Israeli Army. IIRC

He didn't need to mention his Israeli army service when he said he knew about that engine. A simple "yeah, I know those engines" would have sufficed. He said it for a reason.

It was DM that asked what he did in the IA, not MS, no? MS was quiet like a fish.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Google maps link to where I believe the perps parked the Yukon and walked the two to three minute walk to the Bosma residence. 1230 is the Bosma's address and 1214 is the lane where I suspect the perps parked.

It's secluded with trees on both sides pretty much, and trees are blocking view from the Bosma's house. MOO.

https://www.google.ca/maps/dir/1214...167ada97834f931!2m2!1d-80.034334!2d43.1696343

Street view. Laneway on the left and you can barely see the Bosma residence on the right through a break in the trees.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.1709...4!1smrCV2qhi_EGWBNEHgu1QZw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

That's the exact same spot that stood out to me as the most logical place to park & walk.

 

[Ontario Mom]

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/02/07/tim-bosma-murder-trial-continues-monday

To be honest, I really do want to know what Igor did in the Army. Maybe it sounds twisted but I almost wish they would have tried some funny business with Igor. Maybe that way Tim would still be alive and both of these vermin would be damaged in ways all they'd be able to do is ride an e-bike.

 

[MsSherlock]

He didn't need to mention his Israeli army service when he said he knew about that engine. A simple "yeah, I know those engines" would have sufficed. He said it for a reason.

It was DM that asked what he did in the IA, not MS, no? MS was quiet like a fish.

IIRC, it was MS who asked him what he did in the Army.

He told the men he was familiar with the truck's diesel engine from his days in the Israeli army.

"There was a pause when he sit in driver seat," Tumanenko said, referring to the tall man that was now driving his truck at the entrance of Highway 407, just north of Toronto.

"Shorter guy (in the back) asked, 'What did you do in Israel army?'" Tumanenko told court.

"I look at him and said, 'You don't want to know what I did there.'

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/02/04/tim-bosma-murder-trial-crown-to-continue-to-build-case

 

[Tealgrove]

Google maps link to where I believe the perps parked the Yukon and walked the two to three minute walk to the Bosma residence. 1230 is the Bosma's address and 1214 is the lane where I suspect the perps parked.

It's secluded with trees on both sides pretty much, and trees are blocking view from the Bosma's house. MOO.

https://www.google.ca/maps/dir/1214...167ada97834f931!2m2!1d-80.034334!2d43.1696343

Street view. Laneway on the left and you can barely see the Bosma residence on the right through a break in the trees.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.1709...4!1smrCV2qhi_EGWBNEHgu1QZw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Interestingly enough, I was in the area today and picked out that spot myself as I was driving by. It's heavily wooded and they could have easily tucked a vehicle in there without it being seen both from the road and from the Bosma house. There would be no view. In addition, the lane is so long that anyone on that property would not have seen the vehicle parked there in the dark unless they drove out the driveway.

This then brings me to other questions or thoughts.

DM, MS and TB head out on the test drive. They head out the driveway and turn left so they are travelling north up Trinity Road, and drive right past where the Yukon is parked (presumably). It seems to me that they would have driven back almost to TB's own driveway in his own truck, with TB deceased still in the truck, to pick up the Yukon. This could have been happening when the first seeds of concern started to unsettle SB. Just brutal.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Good point about lights in that area at night. I'm fairly close by & will take a drive by after dark some time soon - but I'm fairly certain there would be some kind of lights on and/or around the yard of the building for security purposes. I'm leaning toward it being an intentional red herring.

Judging by google street view, it doesn't look like one would need a lot of light to see that there are lots of trees at the edge of the field right across the road. From where it appears in the picture in NP, it looks like they would have needed to pull into the Kemira gateway to toss the phone where it landed. Lots of growth on the opposite side of the gateway too. I think it was an intentional toss too.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.1808564,-80.3434218,3a,90y,29.91h,88.34t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5cPOa9xFVi4epnketWxnnQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

 

[Ontario Mom]

Interestingly enough, I was in the area today and picked out that spot myself as I was driving by. It's heavily wooded and they could have easily tucked a vehicle in there without it being seen both from the road and from the Bosma house. There would be no view. In addition, the lane is so long that anyone on that property would not have seen the vehicle parked there in the dark unless they drove out the driveway.

This then brings me to other questions or thoughts.

DM, MS and TB head out on the test drive. They head out the driveway and turn left so they are travelling north up Trinity Road, and drive right past where the Yukon is parked (presumably). It seems to me that they would have driven back almost to TB's own driveway in his own truck, with TB deceased still in the truck, to pick up the Yukon. This could have been happening when the first seeds of concern started to unsettle SB. Just brutal.

Like all of you I'm sure, I've thought about this a hundred times. I think what happened was, the Yukon was parked very close to the Bosma driveway (as mentioned in the previous posts). Tim's truck pulled out and turned left, and Tim was either shot by the driver (which SB abd WDB say was DM) before they reached the Yukon, or when they pulled over and stopped where it was. Once at the Yukon, one of them got out (we don't really know who did the driving of which vehicle after this point) and drove that right behind Tim's truck and somewhere along Trinity (possibly?) video surveillance captured the Yukon following Tim's truck.

I suspect it will be entered as evidence at some point, but the location of that camera and TIME stamp on the video surveillance will answer a lot of questions. But LE saying there was a vehicle following Tim's after he left his driveway tells me it happened really really quick and that Yukon was parked VERY close.

 

[Alethea Dice]

You are correct - if the concealed space is found, and it's found to be a deliberate construction, the vehicle would indeed be flagged for any future crossings. Customs would also most likely rip the crap out of your stuff, and tell you to put it back together after finding nothing.

There are multiple reasons for concealed spaces, however - some by design/bodywork, some by accident. I have a custom designed body on a vehicle that gets VERY close scrutiny at the border.. the concealed space had to be made for hiding suspension components from view, and isn't readily accessible. It's always good for a run through the gamma scanner.

Just to clarify, the witness said nothing about concealed or hidden compartments. Only that they were building a trailer and putting "special" compartments in it.

Unless you have a link?

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/millard-employee-sickened-at-discovering-truck-he-feared-belonged-to-missing-tim-bosma-trial-hears

 

[Tamarind]

He didn't need to mention his Israeli army service when he said he knew about that engine. A simple "yeah, I know those engines" would have sufficed. He said it for a reason.

Yes imo he said it because he obviously worked on and/or was used to dealing with them in the Army. Thats my opinion. Just confirming he knows those engines doesn't really explain his full knowledge. When you explain the army it gives a clearer picture as it is understood that much time may have been spent working with or on them IMHO.

It was DM that asked what he did in the IA, not MS, no? MS was quiet like a fish.

No it was MS who asked after initially being quiet as a fish !

 

[Tamarind]

I believe there has to be some wiretap info too. That's the first thing LE thinks of doing.

If the dopey burner phone facts are any indication of how DM's mind works, or doesn't work, he will have certainly given something up to the tap.

Chronological order is as good as any for a convoluted case.

IF there is anything on a wire tap. DM and MS will have received a printout in their disclosure. Their lawyers will already be prepared, there may be nothing of value, we shall have to see.

 

[Alethea Dice]

If someone were to kill someone else with a kitchen knife, does it matter who owned the knife, or just who used it?

Is the person who owned the knife guilty of murder, and the killer innocent because he only used but not owned the knife?

Actually, we only know who was using the phone for the last call. We don't know who was using it for the other calls, such as for when the phone was in Oakville and DM's phone hadn't made it to Oakville yet.

It may not matter who owned the phone, but in this particular case, we also don't know yet who "used the knife".

 

[Gumshew]

No it was MS who asked after initially being quiet as a fish !

Didn't Igor, later in his testimony, say it was the tall guy who asked? I assumed he got mixed up at the beginning.