Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #1

[canadiangirl]

I'm not so sure it was his phone IMHO. If he was being underhanded why did he introduce himself as Evan/possibly Dellen? Why not Lucas Bate to follow through with name on phone he allegedly used? So far I haven't seen anything underhanded by DM. Using a phone that may or may not have been his is not enough for me to make an informed opinion.

OK so let's say it wasn't his phone. Say MS paid and registered under Lucas Bate. What does that matter? Why is DM calling from Lucas phone multiple times? Using the name Evan not Dellen. Arranging meetings to see trucks for sale. At the same time carrying his personal phone as well since it has pinged the cell towers and lined up with the burner phone. That doesn't seem the least bit odd to you? I'm not sure how many genuine people with nothing to hide carry a second phone around when making arrangements to meet up. So using a phone that isnt yours isnt underhanded, but add that to having your own personal phone with you and using another phone does. IMO
I have bought many things from kijiji. I've always used my real name and my actual phone to do so when meeting up with someone. Again. JMO

 

[Ontario Mom]

Yeah, why are we re-writing people's testimony to be something else, and denying that testimony that has been given is the facts of the case?

Well, I'm not. It is what it is. I think the testimonies and the evidence coming will be more than enough to spell out the facts in this case. That said, there will always be those who refuse to believe what's right in front of them because it's not what they wanted the truth to be. Pretty sure that happens in every criminal case.

 

[Tamarind]

Went back and read the timeline of phone locations and ended up with the same question... since it hasn't been disclosed publicly, how can anyone know where DM's phone was, or wasn't at 7:24am that day?

Taking into consideration that DM went to pick up MS in the evening, it would suggest that DM wasn't there prior to that time or else why go to collect him? The fact that MS lives in Oakville and the Bate phone was in Oakville at 7.24 am it would suggest that it was with it's owner who lived there. It's true we have no updates of locations of phones but I think the obvious deduction is that the phone was in Oakville with MS. Of course more testimony or information is still needed to confirm this fully. JMO

 

[canadiangirl]

Forgive if this sounds like a stupid question but, what is the point, exactly, of this back & forth about Evan/Ewan, etc.?

We were debating this because Tamarind was saying that she believes Dellen used his real name when making arrangements to meet up and saying the name Dellen so he was not being underhanded. Just that the witnesses didn't hear, they heard Evan.
Tamarind you can correct me if I misspoke/misquoted you

 

[Alethea Dice]

Yeah, why are we re-writing people's testimony to be something else, and denying that testimony that has been given is the facts of the case?

Who is re-writing testimony? Links have been given by some.

 

[Ontario Mom]

We already discussed this and whether DM may have had a sleep over at MS's house. I guess we don't know where DM's phone was in the morning, but since they were comparing where the phones were, if it was in Oakville and could be proven, I would think they would have testified to that. All we know about DM's is that it was in Etobicoke late afternoon and went to Oakville that night. Was DM at the hangar throughout that day? Did anyone ask AJ if he was there and what time?

I don't know who bought & registered the Bate phone with a fake name & address and frankly don't care. Someone did, and someone used that very same phone to make appointments to see trucks for sale. Most importantly, Tim's truck. The poor victim who died at the hands of these two pieces of... people who have been charged with murder (mods, I'm trying hard here!!)

I'm not sure why anyone would even entertain the idea of DM sleeping over at MS's house because the Bate phone pinged in that location at 7:24am that morning. DM could have had it on him, MS could have had it on him. Who cares? What does it matter? It could have been either of them and obviously it WAS one of them. They've BOTH been charged with killing Tim. I have no reason at all to believe the Crown would level these charges against BOTH of them, if they were BOTH not equally guilty of this wicked crime.

 

[SnooperDuper]

It is possible to be at someone else's home early in the morning, e.g., AJ always went to see his daughter, SIL and grandkids before work. What's to say no one opens their homes to others at 7:24 AM?

 

[Tamarind]

OK so let's say it wasn't his phone. Say MS paid and registered under Lucas Bate. What does that matter? Why is DM calling from Lucas phone multiple times? Using the name Evan not Dellen. Arranging meetings to see trucks for sale. At the same time carrying his personal phone as well since it has pinged the cell towers and lined up with the burner phone. That doesn't seem the least bit odd to you? I'm not sure how many genuine people with nothing to hide carry a second phone around when making arrangements to meet up. So using a phone that isnt yours isnt underhanded, but add that to having your own personal phone with you and using another phone does. IMO
I have bought many things from kijiji. I've always used my real name and my actual phone to do so when meeting up with someone. Again. JMO

Both witnesses claimed not to have understood the name that was said. If MS was there when he was using his phone , then no it wouldn't be underhanded. If MS has a few phones in different names it doesn't matter to me. I personally have no problem with any name someone chooses to use for a phone, as I am against intrusion by state. But since there appears to be interest in it at trial I am trying to make sense of the direction the trial is going. If DM was using the phone ( regardless who it belonged to) to make arrangements to buy a truck, I see no problem with it. I think the reason its a problem at trial is because they are trying to determine who was there and whether or not they had anything planned. JMO

 

[Tamarind]

It is possible to be at someone else's home early in the morning, e.g., AJ always went to see his daughter, SIL and grandkids before work. What's to say no one opens their homes to others at 7:24 AM?

Theres nothing to say, but I believe AJ said it was a normal day on the Monday. I don't recall him saying that DM was absent in the morning.

 

[musicaljoke]

Did we ever find out where the stollen Bobcat excavator that was on the Ayr farm, was taken from?

 

[SnooperDuper]

Theres nothing to say, but I believe AJ said it was a normal day on the Monday. I don't recall him saying that DM was absent in the morning.

I am talking about the phone being in Oakville in the morning. DM would still have plenty of time to get to work.

 

[Sillybilly]

Theres nothing to say, but I believe AJ said it was a normal day on the Monday. I don't recall him saying that DM was absent in the morning.

Doesn't sound like DM is a 9 to 5 type of guy:

Mark Carcasole ‏@MarkCarcGlobal 19s19 seconds ago
Jennings say #Millard "would be in and out. You never really knew when he was coming." Says sometimes he'd be gone a couple days at a time."

I also recall AJ saying he would have to wait for his SIL to show up to let him in the building, so I don't think DM was there regularly to let employees in.

 

[Juballee]

If someone were to kill someone else with a kitchen knife, does it matter who owned the knife, or just who used it?

Is the person who owned the knife guilty of murder, and the killer innocent because he only used but not owned the knife?

So by this standard, if DM bought the gun but MS used it to kill someone, DM wouldn't be guilty. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

 

[SnooperDuper]

So by this standard, if DM bought the gun but MS used it to kill someone, DM wouldn't be guilty. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

I was pointing that out as illogical.

 

[Sillybilly]

Two of the people called, identified the caller as having said his name was either Evan, Even or Avan.

And when Smich's lawyer asked Pamili ...

Adam Carter
Feb 4 2016 10:43 AM
Dungey zeroing in on the mumbled name. “Only when it comes to his name -- only his name -- all of a sudden he lowers his voice and he mumbles it.” Dungey says. "Correct," Pamili says.

 

[deugirtni]

there's court tomorrow, no?

Did you end up going to court on Thursday matou? Are you going tomorrow?

 

[canadiangirl]

Both witnesses claimed not to have understood the name that was said. If MS was there when he was using his phone , then no it wouldn't be underhanded. If MS has a few phones in different names it doesn't matter to me. I personally have no problem with any name someone chooses to use for a phone, as I am against intrusion by state. But since there appears to be interest in it at trial I am trying to make sense of the direction the trial is going. If DM was using the phone ( regardless who it belonged to) to make arrangements to buy a truck, I see no problem with it. I think the reason its a problem at trial is because they are trying to determine who was there and whether or not they had anything planned. JMO

And one of those witnesses although he didn't understand his name, can identify him in court and in a line up.

 

[Tamarind]

I am talking about the phone being in Oakville in the morning. DM would still have plenty of time to get to work.

Sure, but AJ said DM was basically living at the hangar by then, so is AJ contradicting himself? Did DM stay at the hangar or was he infrequently at the hangar, showing up now and again? I still don't believe he was sleeping over at the Smich's. Thats just my opinion.

 

[Tamarind]

And one of those witnesses although he didn't understand his name, can identify him in court and in a line up.

I don't think the defense disputed that. JMO

 

[Ontario Mom]

It is possible to be at someone else's home early in the morning, e.g., AJ always went to see his daughter, SIL and grandkids before work. What's to say no one opens their homes to others at 7:24 AM?

Exactly. Most normal working men and women are up early and out the door... anywhere from 5am onward. Unless they're shift workers, then they're on their way home at 7:24am-ish. Granted, that's normal, responsible people that actually punch a time clock somewhere and don't spend their time stealing things and killing people. Some swing through the Timmies drive-thru every day at the same time, others might drop by someone's house on their way home. Not at all uncommon.

DM? Not so much. He kept his own hours and came and went as he pleased (as has been testified to in court). Could he have been at MS's place that morning? Of course he could have been. But without evidence of where HIS cell pinged at that same time that day, we can't know for sure. Nor do I think it matters. It all just seems like a lot of hair-splitting of hairs that have already been split, repeatedly.