Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #4

[Kamille]

I think RK will testify, and given his b school education, he'll be able to opine expertly.

I think RK was out of the picture in short order...gone well by the time DM was arrested.

When you think of all the witnesses and evidence that may be available to the Crown to prove DM's motive for stealing a truck was because he couldn't afford to just go buy a truck, this starts to look like a REALLY long trial. Especially if his defense team is going to fight it all the way. Poor jurors.

MOO

 

[billandrew]

Well IMO the main difference between "employee" and "contractor" is benefits. Otherwise there's no real difference.

I agree. Just clarifying since Kamille asked why he wasn't on payroll.

 

[Ironworker736]

When you think of all the witnesses and evidence that may be available to the Crown to prove DM's motive for stealing a truck was because he couldn't afford to just go buy a truck, this starts to look like a REALLY long trial. Especially if his defense team is going to fight it all the way. Poor jurors.

MOO

Assuming that stealing the truck was the main objective.

 

[Kamille]

He didn't have to be an employee, although "VP of Operations" is quite the title for a contractor. My guess is he was invoicing Millardair just like LW was. JMO.

I think he was just a salesman with a glorified title who was hired on commission. He even used his own phone number and email. His job was likely to try to find clients to rent space in the "airplane hotel" who didn't have a problem with the other "car repair business?" going on in there and the total lack of security in the hangar. Probably a pretty impossible task.

MOO

 

[billandrew]

So, in your opinion, this seems to have been a very unconventional business they were running?

No, I wouldn't say that. I was just postulating as to why he wasn't on the actual payroll.

 

[billandrew]

I think he was just a salesman with a glorified title who was hired on commission. He even used his own phone number and email. His job was likely to try to find clients to rent space in the "airplane hotel" who didn't have a problem with the other "car repair business?" going on in there and the total lack of security in the hangar. Probably a pretty impossible task.

MOO

Agreed - I think this was exactly his relationship with MillardAir.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I think he was just a salesman with a glorified title who was hired on commission. He even used his own phone number and email. His job was likely to try to find clients to rent space in the "airplane hotel" who didn't have a problem with the other "car repair business?" going on in there and the total lack of security in the hangar. Probably a pretty impossible task.

MOO

All titles are glorifying, but yes, VP Ops would be part salesman, part financial, very into the day to day.

 

[Kamille]

Agreed - I think this was exactly his relationship with MillardAir.

My point of bringing it up was that, like Snooper Dooper I think? said, he was probably long gone by the time of the murder. But it appears his name was put on the website with a fancy title, and uploaded to the internet, AFTER DM was arrested? I really don't think the Crown will get bogged down with all these details, the business practices of MA were really for the bank and the CRA to sort out after the fact. Looks like the bank took care of their business with the company. I wonder about the CRA? While it interesting to speculate on, pretty sure we won't be seeing any of this in the actual trial. They have much bigger fish to fry.

MOO

 

[Ironworker736]

My point of bringing it up was that, like Snooper Dooper I think? said, he was probably long gone by the time of the murder. But it appears his name was put on the website with a fancy title, and uploaded to the internet, AFTER DM was arrested? I really don't think the Crown will get bogged down with all these details, the business practices of MA were really for the bank and the CRA to sort out after the fact. Looks like the bank took care of their business with the company. I wonder about the CRA? While it interesting to speculate on, pretty sure we won't be seeing any of this in the actual trial. They have much bigger fish to fry.

MOO

While that is certainly true, all of what you said, in my opinion the findings in this trial (business dealings in particular) may warrant further investigation. Consider this...

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/soc-cgco/what-quoi-eng.htm

 

[billandrew]

My point of bringing it up was that, like Snooper Dooper I think? said, he was probably long gone by the time of the murder.
MOO

BBM. Why do you think this? Is it not plausible that DM hired him sometime after WM died and had let everyone else go? From Dec 2012 to May 2013, could he not have been helping DM devise a new business plan and, as you said, find new customers or business partners?

 

[brightii]

Hi fabulous WSers! :loveyou:You are each and all incredible so take a well-deserved bow!

I am a new member and have been following the Tim Bosma case since the beginning and reading your insightful posts. There are no words to adequately express how such a horrifying event makes me feel, and I cannot even imagine the enormity of Tim's loss for his family, friends and community! I am with you all hoping justice will win out in the end, for Tim and for all those left to deal with the tragic aftermath of his death. It's so scary that a person could so randomly and easily meet with harm by simply advertising a truck for sale. It could have happened to any one of us or our loved ones and that, I feel, is why so many people are moved by this case.

I am in awe of your skills at taking apart this case piece by piece and analyzing everything so well! Your attention to detail is phenomenal and I have no doubt the defense and Crown all benefit from your hard work. I don't know if I can add much value to the discussion, but I hope to be a part of this caring community to do what I can, if only to support your efforts.

As for LW's testimony, I was appalled. I am an office manager and a self-taught bookkeeper for a company and it is not work for the simple-minded IMO. I have a very strong understanding by handling the books the state of my company's health. Unless a person is willfully blind, I cannot imagine LW not having an idea of exactly what was going on (or not) with the MA business. It's offensive to me how LW portrayed her role at MA, and how she blatantly cooperated with the defense's assertion that she had no clue about the company. Also, since she testified that she still has contact with MB, I am wondering if she was the chosen go-between person for MB to relay messages back and forth between MB and DM and that is the reason she was visiting him in jail. It seems to me MB wants to keep a very low profile and may well prefer to send a messenger in her place to meet with DM.

All of the above is, as you regulars say, MOO. :laughingS I tried posting this 3 times, maybe I'm not as bright as I think. lol

 

[billandrew]

Hi fabulous WSers! :loveyou:You are each and all incredible so take a well-deserved bow!

I am a new member and have been following the Tim Bosma case since the beginning and reading your insightful posts. There are no words to adequately express how such a horrifying event makes me feel, and I cannot even imagine the enormity of Tim's loss for his family, friends and community! I am with you all hoping justice will win out in the end, for Tim and for all those left to deal with the tragic aftermath of his death. It's so scary that a person could so randomly and easily meet with harm by simply advertising a truck for sale. It could have happened to any one of us or our loved ones and that, I feel, is why so many people are moved by this case.

I am in awe of your skills at taking apart this case piece by piece and analyzing everything so well! Your attention to detail is phenomenal and I have no doubt the defense and Crown all benefit from your hard work. I don't know if I can add much value to the discussion, but I hope to be a part of this caring community to do what I can, if only to support your efforts.

As for LW's testimony, I was appalled. I am an office manager and a self-taught bookkeeper for a company and it is not work for the simple-minded IMO. I have a very strong understanding by handling the books the state of my company's health. Unless a person is willfully blind, I cannot imagine LW not having an idea of exactly what was going on (or not) with the MA business. It's offensive to me how LW portrayed her role at MA, and how she blatantly cooperated with the defense's assertion that she had no clue about the company. Also, since she testified that she still has contact with MB, I am wondering if she was the chosen go-between person for MB to relay messages back and forth between MB and DM and that is the reason she was visiting him in jail. It seems to me MB wants to keep a very low profile and may well prefer to send a messenger in her place to meet with DM.

All of the above is, as you regulars say, MOO. :laughingS I tried posting this 3 times, maybe I'm not as bright as I think. lol

Welcome, brightii! Thanks for your post. I hope you will continue to chime in and share your thoughts often.

I totally relate to your frustrations with LW. As an accountant myself, I was grinding my teeth listening to her testify. And I also wonder about MB's role in all of this. We probably won't find out much until she hits the stand.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Also with these new revelations this week, why wasn't RK, the VP of operations, on the payroll? :thinking:

https://web.archive.org/web/20130512004955/http://www.millardair.com

Wondered the exact same when I saw that screen.

 

[brightii]

Abitcountry, I am wondering if it was mentioned in court how much LW billed for her services? Was it $10.25 per hour or are you being facetious in your post?

I wish I had seen something mentioned about her earnings for the work she performed. I may have just missed it, but I think her billing 10 hours a month for a company that had as she stated no income was probably a minimum amount agreed upon between she and her client, MA. I also think that she would have to file regular reports for payroll, WSIB remittances, HST, etc. whether the company had income or not.

All MOO.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Okay here is the original ARIN registration that we saw back in 2013. Registered by SS June 6, 2012. Wrong address and used DM's email.

http://whois.arin.net/rest/poc/SCHLA-ARIN

Thank you! I knew I wasn't dreaming that.

 

[Tiggertoo]

Welcome!
To your point, I think LW is playing dumb and not very well. I also think MB is trying to keep a low profile and was more involved or knew more than letting on. IN FACT, I think most of the people surrounding adam were probably a little shady. I guess they were fine with turning a blind eye to shady practices to line their own pocket books.
For me the big picture is that WM got the loan to get things for the business, likely using the house as collateral then DM killed him for the money <modsnip>. I suspect LB either knew too much or just got irritating and the TB was for the truck so they could go racing. I imagine DM was asset rich and cash poor and that's why he was stealing trucks. I also think he had done this before and had gotten away with it. I think that's the reason he was so lazy covering up TB. Obviously this is all MOO.

Hi fabulous WSers! :loveyou:You are each and all incredible so take a well-deserved bow!

I am a new member and have been following the Tim Bosma case since the beginning and reading your insightful posts. There are no words to adequately express how such a horrifying event makes me feel, and I cannot even imagine the enormity of Tim's loss for his family, friends and community! I am with you all hoping justice will win out in the end, for Tim and for all those left to deal with the tragic aftermath of his death. It's so scary that a person could so randomly and easily meet with harm by simply advertising a truck for sale. It could have happened to any one of us or our loved ones and that, I feel, is why so many people are moved by this case.

I am in awe of your skills at taking apart this case piece by piece and analyzing everything so well! Your attention to detail is phenomenal and I have no doubt the defense and Crown all benefit from your hard work. I don't know if I can add much value to the discussion, but I hope to be a part of this caring community to do what I can, if only to support your efforts.

As for LW's testimony, I was appalled. I am an office manager and a self-taught bookkeeper for a company and it is not work for the simple-minded IMO. I have a very strong understanding by handling the books the state of my company's health. Unless a person is willfully blind, I cannot imagine LW not having an idea of exactly what was going on (or not) with the MA business. It's offensive to me how LW portrayed her role at MA, and how she blatantly cooperated with the defense's assertion that she had no clue about the company. Also, since she testified that she still has contact with MB, I am wondering if she was the chosen go-between person for MB to relay messages back and forth between MB and DM and that is the reason she was visiting him in jail. It seems to me MB wants to keep a very low profile and may well prefer to send a messenger in her place to meet with DM.

All of the above is, as you regulars say, MOO. :laughingS I tried posting this 3 times, maybe I'm not as bright as I think. lol

 

[andreww]

I checked that out on www.johnhoward.on.ca in Visitors Handbook.
It appears that unless there is a security risk, a visitor sits at a table with the detainee....no glass no phone.

I would guess that even though millard was being held, he was free to send mail to whomever he wished (barring the DNC list). I doubt whether at that point LE would be able to read his mail or read anything that he gave to his attorneys, or even his bookkeeper for that matter. Fact is CN got busted with a stack of letters, so it couldn't have been that difficult.

 

[brightii]

Thanks for the warm welcome, billandrew! :happydance:

I am hoping, like us, there will be some members of the jury whose suspicions will be raised by LW's testimony precisely because they have some experience with bookkeeping or business in general. I don't truly know what to make of LW's testimony. Could she be frightened to go against her clients? After all, considering what DM is accused of doing, it would be understandable that she may feel intimidated, and if she has participated in anything untoward business-wise with MA, she may also be feeling the threat of exposure and that could explain things a bit. All speculation and questions on my part. I hope what I am posting will be okay.

All MOO. :thinking:

 

[Tiggertoo]

$10.25 was minimum wage a few years ago. It is now $11.25 per hour.

 

[Kamille]

Hi fabulous WSers! :loveyou:You are each and all incredible so take a well-deserved bow!

I am a new member and have been following the Tim Bosma case since the beginning and reading your insightful posts. There are no words to adequately express how such a horrifying event makes me feel, and I cannot even imagine the enormity of Tim's loss for his family, friends and community! I am with you all hoping justice will win out in the end, for Tim and for all those left to deal with the tragic aftermath of his death. It's so scary that a person could so randomly and easily meet with harm by simply advertising a truck for sale. It could have happened to any one of us or our loved ones and that, I feel, is why so many people are moved by this case.

I am in awe of your skills at taking apart this case piece by piece and analyzing everything so well! Your attention to detail is phenomenal and I have no doubt the defense and Crown all benefit from your hard work. I don't know if I can add much value to the discussion, but I hope to be a part of this caring community to do what I can, if only to support your efforts.

As for LW's testimony, I was appalled. I am an office manager and a self-taught bookkeeper for a company and it is not work for the simple-minded IMO. I have a very strong understanding by handling the books the state of my company's health. Unless a person is willfully blind, I cannot imagine LW not having an idea of exactly what was going on (or not) with the MA business. It's offensive to me how LW portrayed her role at MA, and how she blatantly cooperated with the defense's assertion that she had no clue about the company. Also, since she testified that she still has contact with MB, I am wondering if she was the chosen go-between person for MB to relay messages back and forth between MB and DM and that is the reason she was visiting him in jail. It seems to me MB wants to keep a very low profile and may well prefer to send a messenger in her place to meet with DM.

All of the above is, as you regulars say, MOO. :laughingS I tried posting this 3 times, maybe I'm not as bright as I think. lol

Welcome brightii :welcome:

Thanks for the compliments on behalf of all us old WS'ers and our fabulous new recruits. As you've indicated, the wealth of knowledge here by putting our collective brains together is outstanding.

As a former accounting clerk for a major corportation, I too was baffled by what I was "hearing" during that testimony. I think it became pretty apparent by day 2 what "team" the witness was playing for.

So jump right in...the water's fine. Looking forward to your input.

MOO