Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #6

[ABro]

Hm, yes, I can see how it might be a misinterpretation. Other officers testified that surveillance started just after 3pm. What is the significance of Tselepakis specifically stating 3:55pm? What time to do you think Hamilton and Tselepakis actually visited the hangar? I would really like the timeline to be as accurate as possible.

My notes show Tselpakis saying they arrived at 2:28, not clear if it's the airport or the hangar. And they did have some problems finding the hangar.

Waterloo surveillance takes over at 3:55 after T and H have sat in their vehicle waiting for them for a while.

As to when all the Jennings stuff happened, it's impossible to know based on the info we have as he didn't give any times.

 

[Kamille]

Hm, yes, I can see how it might be a misinterpretation. Other officers testified that surveillance started just after 3pm. What is the significance of Tselepakis specifically stating 3:55pm? What time to do you think Hamilton and Tselepakis actually visited the hangar? I would really like the timeline to be as accurate as possible.

I think they were there sometime between 2-3pm. But I don't think they left the area or had the hangar out of their sight while they were briefing Det Kavanaugh of what they had discovered. So I think they stayed in the area keeping an eye on things until the actual surveillance unit showed up at 3:55pm.

MOO

ETA: Okay it appears that one unit showed up at 2:28pm and another showed up at 3:55pm? So perhaps they were there shortly after 2pm and only stayed for a brief time.

 

[deugirtni]

ABro or anyone else who has sat in the courtroom... I have noticed a tall, bald gentleman each time I have been in attendance, sitting with his blonde wife.. they are both somewhere in their 50s.. they sit within the Bosma clan, a row or two back from the main family members. I could swear that the man is AJ, based on the newspaper photos I have seen of him. Has anyone else noticed this person?

 

[Yendys]

Yes. Exactly. The delay was not in speaking to Igor but in connecting the tattoo to a person, which is why Kavanagh might have decided to go public with the tattoo info on the 9th. He thought he needed public help.

I do not know what information is documented at the time of carding, ie age, sex as well as tattoo's possibly who the person is with and obviously location/date/time. Perhaps there was more than one person with an ambition tattoo on their wrist, we don't know and LE would not want to pint a finger at an innocent person. Or maybe the tattoo details was a card they were not wanting to reveal at that time.
On May 9th AJ phoned Crime stoppers and confirmed the truck in DM's hanger was TB's. This would have been made known to LE but as we know AJ did not say where the truck was. LE may have decided to reveal the tattoo details to encourage whomever (AJ) knew where the truck was to do the right thing and give up the location of the truck, and possibly confirm the tattoo.
I do believe when LE visited the hanger on the 10th, it was to confirm the presence of the tattoo and his general description with that of IT and SB.
all MOO

 

[ABro]

ABro or anyone else who has sat in the courtroom... I have noticed a tall, bald gentleman each time I have been in attendance, sitting with his blonde wife.. they are both somewhere in their 50s.. they sit within the Bosma clan, a row or two back from the main family members. I could swear that the man is AJ, based on the newspaper photos I have seen of him. Has anyone else noticed this person?

He does look like AJ, but he's not. He's an old friend of the Bosmas, and he and his wife have attended many, many court hearings going back to the CN bail hearing. They're both lovely people and quite willing to chat.

 

[Kamille]

My notes show Tselpakis saying they arrived at 2:28, not clear if it's the airport or the hangar. And they did have some problems finding the hangar.

Waterloo surveillance takes over at 3:55 after T and H have sat in their vehicle waiting for them for a while.

As to when all the Jennings stuff happened, it's impossible to know based on the info we have as he didn't give any times.

If I understand correctly, Tselpakis is with the Mountain CID unit? Who first had the case and got the emergency phone records until it was turned over to Jackson and the homicide unit on May 8th? And Kavanaugh was overseeing all the various depts involved? If Jackson's homicide dept didn't get the case until the 8th (even though he said he first became involved on the 7th) how did he end up interviewing IT on the 7th? Sounds like he was getting briefings on the 7th from the Mountain CID unit. So did he then accompany a detective from that unit to the interview with IT on the afternoon of the 7th?

This is why it's all so confusing. So many different depts involved with different tasks and times.

MOO

 

[deugirtni]

Someone on this thread today in the wee hours, was proposing a possible 'frame' theory. I remember that DM's original lawyer (Paradkar) intimated about this possibility as well. I have not personally given that any thought because the evidence seems rather overwhelming. If we theorized that possibility out, where would that possibility stop, or would it? Would be interesting to consider. ie someone wants to get DM back for something; marks a similar tattoo on his wrist, purchases a burner phone that can't be traced back.. and onward.. is this even a possibility, considering alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll of the evidence? First thing would be how did this person get his hands on DM's Yukon on that evening, and if this were even a remote possibility, why hasn't DM been singing, and leading LE to the framers?

 

[ABro]

If I understand correctly, Tselpakis is with the Mountain CID unit? Who first had the case and got the emergency phone records until it was turned over to Jackson and the homicide unit on May 8th? And Kavanaugh was overseeing all the various depts involved? If Jackson's homicide dept didn't get the case until the 8th (even though he said he first became involved on the 7th) how did he end up interviewing IT on the 7th? Sounds like he was getting briefings on the 7th from the Mountain CID unit. So did he then accompany a detective from that unit to the interview with IT on the afternoon of the 7th?

This is why it's all so confusing. So many different depts involved with different tasks and times.

MOO

Case was originally handled by MOuntain CID.

Even after homicide took over on May 8, it wasn't just homicide officers doing this investigation. Lots of secondments, etc.

ETA: There is a so-called investigative triangle with a major case manager (Kavanagh) on top, then a primary detective (Rodzoniak) and a file manger (Jackson).

 

[deugirtni]

He does look like AJ, but he's not. He's an old friend of the Bosmas, and he and his wife have attended many, many court hearings going back to the CN bail hearing. They're both lovely people and quite willing to chat.

Thanks ABro, it made me a tad uncomfortable to see him being so friendly with the B family, if it was in fact AJ.

 

[ABro]

If I understand correctly, Tselpakis is with the Mountain CID unit? Who first had the case and got the emergency phone records until it was turned over to Jackson and the homicide unit on May 8th? And Kavanaugh was overseeing all the various depts involved? If Jackson's homicide dept didn't get the case until the 8th (even though he said he first became involved on the 7th) how did he end up interviewing IT on the 7th? Sounds like he was getting briefings on the 7th from the Mountain CID unit. So did he then accompany a detective from that unit to the interview with IT on the afternoon of the 7th?

This is why it's all so confusing. So many different depts involved with different tasks and times.

MOO

Sorry, missed your IT questions. Jackson says Kavanagh asked him to go over to MOuntain when he arrived at work on the 7th. And yes, he and Rodzoniak then went to see Igor that afternoon.

 

[Prairie_dawg]

IMO it seems too unlikely that DM was being framed as DM himself is involved in far too much deception. In fact it would be interesting to see a list of the deceptions we know to date.
Defense has a mountain of deceptions to try and explain away I can list 15 in just a few seconds off the top of my head.

It would be interesting to how huge the list is. 'Nothing to hide' YEAH RIGHT!!

1) having a burner phone
2) using middle name for test drives
3) re-positioning hanger cameras
4) the blue Yukon (appears to contain several deceptive devices - plate hider, police lights its a rolling deception) JMO
5) lying about being dropped of at TBs
6) attempting to paint the truck
7) possible attempt at VIN swap
8) hiding truck at mom's house
9) moving incinerator on farm (why put in trees if nothing to hide?)
10) washing shoulder bag likely used May 6
11) text re: airport politics keeping workers away from hanger May 7
12) burning seats at the farm
13) removing dvr and giving to CN to hide
14) lie to CD about starting animal incineration business with RB
etc etc etc
15) deception about finances JMO

I am sure sleuths here can add another 40-50 the deception is mind blowing

 

[billandrew]

Case was originally handled by MOuntain CID.

Even after homicide took over on May 8, it wasn't just homicide officers doing this investigation. Lots of secondments, etc.

ETA: There is a so-called investigative triangle with a major case manager (Kavanagh) on top, then a primary detective (Rodzoniak) and a file manger (Jackson).

This has been shared here before, but just for anyone who missed it, in October 2015 Sgt. Kavanagh received a Canadian Order of Merit for his 31 years in policing.

 

[billandrew]

This has been shared here before, but just for anyone who missed it, in October 2015 Sgt. Kavanagh received a Canadian Order of Merit for his 31 years in policing.

Oops, I left out the link:

https://hamiltonpolice.on.ca/commun...t-matt-kavanagh-receives-canadian-order-merit

 

[ArianeEmory]

Someone on this thread today in the wee hours, was proposing a possible 'frame' theory. I remember that DM's original lawyer (Paradkar) intimated about this possibility as well. I have not personally given that any thought because the evidence seems rather overwhelming. If we theorized that possibility out, where would that possibility stop, or would it? Would be interesting to consider. ie someone wants to get DM back for something; marks a similar tattoo on his wrist, purchases a burner phone that can't be traced back.. and onward.. is this even a possibility, considering alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll of the evidence? First thing would be how did this person get his hands on DM's Yukon on that evening, and if this were even a remote possibility, why hasn't DM been singing, and leading LE to the framers?

Oh jeez. Yes, DM as "innocent dupe" has been tested for viability by some here basically back to day one. There was even a whole thread dedicated to it (it's locked now). For a while these conspiracies stretched so far as to try to imply TB had some prior connection to DM. It was pretty gross.

Hopefully we don't have to play it all out again, but with a week's downtime I suppose it's inevitable.

 

[deugirtni]

Oh jeez. Yes, DM as "innocent dupe" has been tested for viability by some here basically back to day one. There was even a whole thread dedicated to it (it's locked now). For a while these conspiracies stretched so far as to try to imply TB had some prior connection to DM. It was pretty gross.

Hopefully we don't have to play it all out again, but with a week's downtime I suppose it's inevitable.

Yes agreed, imo, there is just wayyyyy toooooo much evidence, even if mostly circumstantial, which is just as valid as 'direct' evidence, according to the judge. Someone would have had to go to great lengths and have the sun, moon and stars line up in harmony to make all of these things fall into place against DM, and then there would be the 'but why?' factor. Right now, it seems to just be a 'but why are you so stupid' thing to consider. MOO

 

[deugirtni]

Also, with alllll of the objections, and voir dires, and private meetings without jury present, can you imagine how much the jury ISN'T hearing, on top of what they *are* hearing? Boggles the mind.

 

[billandrew]

I think they were there sometime between 2-3pm. But I don't think they left the area or had the hangar out of their sight while they were briefing Det Kavanaugh of what they had discovered. So I think they stayed in the area keeping an eye on things until the actual surveillance unit showed up at 3:55pm.

MOO

ETA: Okay it appears that one unit showed up at 2:28pm and another showed up at 3:55pm? So perhaps they were there shortly after 2pm and only stayed for a brief time.

Molly Hayes tweeted that Griffin (WRPS surveillance officer) arrived at the hangar at 3pm. I reckon there was some overlap between the HPS detectives' (Hamilton & Tselepakis's) visit and the WRPS surveillance team arriving on site.

After arriving at the hangar, Griffin tailed Millard until after he left the bank in Kitchener around 5:07pm. He stated that he followed Millard onto the 401, but he was relieved by HPS. Higgins of HPS took over tailing Millard at that time. Griffin then went to Millard's farm at 6:10pm and stayed there until around 2am. I find this part interesting. He must have known that HPS was tailing (and ultimately arresting) Millard, right? So the point of watching the farm was to find out if anyone else showed up.

 

[Alethea Dice]

This is all just my opinion but this FBO business screams scam to me. I don't think that airport would have been agreeable to a new operation stealing business from existing operators. The MRO would have served heavy business not currently existing there. Bearskin already operates out of that airport. So do fuel services. Renting spaces out of that behemoth wouldn't cut the mustard as far as paying bills is concerned. There was some reason DM told Hussey to keep quiet about the FBO.
I suspect Hussey was being groomed. A sociopath gets a mark excited about joining his lucrative group, then points to a roadblock. The mark has to overcome this by doing something sketchy to get in the group which results in becoming owned by the sociopath.

I don't think the airport would have been against it since that that is exactly what the new owners of the lease are doing.

The building once owned by Millard Air is the largest hangar at the Waterloo Region International Airport and will now house what's referred to in the aviation industry as a fixed based operation, or FBO.

"For a lack of a better term it's a hotel for airplanes," airport general manager Chris Wood said Thursday. "So when the businessman or businesswoman flies in for the day, the FBO offers services like fuel, hangarage, maintenance, pilot facilities, weather briefings, parking spaces, things like that."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/chartright-air-group-takes-over-former-millard-air-hangar-1.3019314

 

[Sillybilly]

Can someone please post the link for where to find the summary of tweets from SC and MH that were on a spreadsheet by day? TIA!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...U/htmlview?usp=sharing&pref=2&pli=1&sle=true#

 

[Typhoo1961]

Someone on this thread today in the wee hours, was proposing a possible 'frame' theory.

I remember that. I even screensaved the posts.