Burke did NOT kill JonBenet

If JR, then, why? He lost everything as the result - a company, an excellent job. Money. Societal standing. Why? To molest, as some say? Well...then we first have to assume that he is a pedophile. I don't see any known history of it, but I specifically Googled where pedophiles would go for sex tourism in the 90es. Three countries were on top. Not in own house and then kill a child. Not people with "reputation." To some islands, yes.

I found these excerpts from :

Pedophilic and Nonpedophilic Distinction​

The most important distinction among child sexual abusers is whether they are pedophilic or nonpedophilic, because pedophilia has been shown to be a strong predictor of sexual recidivism (Hanson & Bussiere, 1998). Not all individuals who sexually assault children are pedophiles. Pedophilia consists of a sexual preference for children that may or may not lead to child sexual abuse (e.g., viewing child 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬), whereas child sexual abuse involves sexual contact with a child that may or may not be due to pedophilia (Camilleri & Quinsey, 2008). According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 5th Edition (American Psychiatric Association, 2013), a diagnosis of pedophilia requires an individual to have recurrent, intense and sexually arousing fantasies, urges or behaviors directed toward a prepubescent child (generally 13 years of age or younger) over a period of at least six months; to have acted on these urges or to be distressed by them; and to be at least 16 years old and at least five years older than the child victim.

. . .

Types of Child Sexual Abusers​

One of the first typologies was formulated from the delineation of pedophilic and nonpedophilic child sexual abuse. Groth, Hobson and Gary (1982) classified child sexual abusers based on the degree to which the sexual behavior is entrenched and the basis for psychological needs (fixated-regressed typology). The fixated offender prefers interaction and identifies with children socially and sexually (Simon et al., 1992). These individuals often develop and maintain relationships with children to satisfy their sexual needs (Conte, 1991). In contrast, regressed child sexual abusers prefer social and sexual interaction with adults; their sexual involvement with children is situational and occurs as a result of life stresses (Simon et al., 1992). The majority of fixated child sexual abusers are individuals who sexually assault male children who are not related; regressed child sexual abusers often consist of incest offenders or offenders who sexually assault female adolescents (Priest & Smith, 1992). The fixated-regressed typology has been incorporated into the current models of sexual offending (e.g., self-regulation model; Ward & Hudson, 1998, 2000) discussed later in this chapter.


Victim Characteristic Distinction​

Of the traditional models, the victim gender-relationship typology is the only model that has demonstrated clinical utility because it accounts for much of the variability in child sexual abuse, addresses treatment issues and is related to recidivism (Camilleri & Quinsey, 2008). The gender of the victim remains an important distinction among child sexual abusers because this factor has been shown to be a strong predictor of sexual reoffense (Hanson & Bussiere, 1998), although exactly what can be predicted is unclear. One study showed that male child sexual abusers who assault males are twice as likely to recidivate in comparison to offenders who abuse females (Quinsey, 1986). Yet, contradictory findings have also been reported in the literature. Several studies found that child sexual abusers who sexually assault females report over twice as many victims as same-sex child offenders (Abel et al., 1981). More recent studies have shown that mixed-gender child sexual abusers reported the highest number of victims (Cann, Friendship & Gozna, 2007; Stephens, Seto, Goodwill & Cantor, 2016), offenses (Simons & Tyler, 2010) and the highest rates of risk for reoffense (Abel et al., 1988; Kleban, Chesin, Jeglic & Mercado, 2013). However, after controlling for number of victims, mixed-gender offenders were not more likely to sexually recidivate compared to child sexual abusers who offend against males and females exclusively (Stephens et al., 2016). Overall, small sample sizes and reliance on official records have limited the extensive investigation of this group.

Extrafamilial child sexual abusers are more likely to be diagnosed with pedophilia and are often unable to maintain adult relationships.
Within this typology, child sexual abusers are also categorized based on their relationship to the victim (i.e., intrafamilial or extrafamilial). According to Rice and Harris (2002), intrafamilial child sexual abusers (i.e., incest offenders) are less psychopathic, less likely to report male victims, cause less injury, are less likely to exhibit pedophilia and have lower sexual and violent recidivism rates. Intrafamilial child sexual abusers are less likely to have antisocial tendencies (e.g., criminal history, substance abuse) and atypical sexual interests (Seto, Babchishin, Pullman & McPhail, 2015). Seto et al. (2015) also found intrafamilial offenders display fewer offense-supportive beliefs and interpersonal deficits than extrafamilial child sexual abusers. Extrafamilial child sexual abusers are more likely to be diagnosed with pedophilia (Seto et al., 2015) and are often unable to maintain adult relationships (Prentky et al., 1989). Although intrafamilial child sexual abusers substitute a child for an adult sexual partner, they often maintain their adult sexual relationships (Miner & Dwyer, 1997). Studies have reported that intrafamilial child sexual abusers have fewer victims as compared to extrafamilial sexual offenders (Miner & Dwyer, 1997) and lower rates of sexual recidivism (Stephens et al., 2016). These studies relied primarily on official records (i.e., criminal convictions), which do not take into account the possibility that many incest offenders may have undisclosed victims to whom they are not related. Nonetheless, the gender/relationship typology is the most frequently used and researched typology of child sexual abusers.
 
“Burke is not a suspect.” -Suzanne Laurian, spokeswoman for Boulder DA Alex Hunter in 1999 during GJ proceedings.

In order to counter the chaos going on with DA Alex Hunter, who many believe did not try the case because of R sympathy and covered up evidence, the Colorado governor appointed Mike Kane, the prosecutor who led GJ proceedings. He and Police Chief Mark Beckner said Burke was “not involved with the crime.”

James Kolar developed the BR theory in the 2010s. BR could not murder anyone. He was a child. It would have been an accidental death and be documented as that by the GJ, not first degree murder. Only adults could have killed JBR, as defined by the prosecutors and GJ proceedings who reviewed all the evidence, evidence that we do not have.

This is all available in Grand Jury documents and media at the time. It’s all been listed on JBR threads here on WS.


 
“Burke is not a suspect.” -Suzanne Laurian, spokeswoman for Boulder DA Alex Hunter in 1999 during GJ proceedings.

In order to counter the chaos going on with DA Alex Hunter, who many believe did not try the case because of R sympathy and covered up evidence, the Colorado governor appointed Mike Kane, the prosecutor who led GJ proceedings. He and Police Chief Mark Beckner said Burke was “not involved with the crime.”

James Kolar developed the BR theory in the 2010s. BR could not murder anyone. He was a child. It would have been an accidental death and be documented as that by the GJ, not first degree murder. Only adults could have killed JBR, as defined by the prosecutors and GJ proceedings who reviewed all the evidence, evidence that we do not have.

This is all available in Grand Jury documents and media at the time. It’s all been listed on JBR threads here on WS.



“Burke is not a suspect.” -Suzanne Laurian, spokeswoman for Boulder DA Alex Hunter in 1999 during GJ proceedings.

In order to counter the chaos going on with DA Alex Hunter, who many believe did not try the case because of R sympathy and covered up evidence, the Colorado governor appointed Mike Kane, the prosecutor who led GJ proceedings. He and Police Chief Mark Beckner said Burke was “not involved with the crime.”

James Kolar developed the BR theory in the 2010s. BR could not murder anyone. He was a child. It would have been an accidental death and be documented as that by the GJ, not first degree murder. Only adults could have killed JBR, as defined by the prosecutors and GJ proceedings who reviewed all the evidence, evidence that we do not have.

This is all available in Grand Jury documents and media at the time. It’s all been listed on JBR threads here on WS.


Burke Ramsey, has not been cleared by BPD. I think Beckner made a statement about Burke, but has since walked back from that IMO. However, IIRC, his age disqualified him from being a suspect. If his age disqualified him from being a suspect, he cannot be cleared. However, IMO, this doesn’t mean he wasn’t involved in some way.
A few years back, Burke had an opportunity to speak to two detectives from Boulder, who flew out to meet with him. He declined under advisement from his legal council.
No surprise there.
 
Burke Ramsey, has not been cleared by BPD. I think Beckner made a statement about Burke, but has since walked back from that IMO. However, IIRC, his age disqualified him from being a suspect. If his age disqualified him from being a suspect, he cannot be cleared. However, IMO, this doesn’t mean he wasn’t involved in some way.
A few years back, Burke had an opportunity to speak to two detectives from Boulder, who flew out to meet with him. He declined under advisement from his legal council.
No surprise there.
You asked for sources. Police Chief Mark Beckner and the GJ did not consider Burke a suspect. I don’t follow your logical progression, but he could not form intent for murder, so he could never be charged with murder, correct. Evidence points to an adult and Burke was almost certainly not involved with harming or killing his sister. Many people agree with you, all LE and GJ legal wording and evidence points to someone else. Jmo If this were a clear case, it would be solved.
 
IMO, Burke's guilt or innocence largely depends on the interpretation of the 911 recording.

I've been reading and posting on JonBenet threads for a month now. I was firmly DNA IDI, now still trying to give IDI as some reasonable dobt. I think reasonable doubt on is what the case has not moved forward, more so than the grand jury shadiness.

My background is in psychology, therapy, and education. I only have a vague time period of somewhere in the 2000s there was a sweeping change of new programs and protocols for working with sexual offenders. There were regional trainings on stats, assessments, polygraph, etc and Jim Clemente was one of the trainers. I watched The Case of JonBenet knowing he looked familiar but not putting it together in my brain. In my brain, he was filed under helpful things for adoption because of what I had a project on.

Anyhow, after all official stuff was complete, later there was social time. I remember him saying the brother did it because he was awake . I remember asking how did they know from that, and he said what are the chances . . . only time this ever happened. But just like here I focus on doubt so I asked if just by being awake can that be convictable, and he replied they have him recorded that he was awake, and what are the chances . . .

Edit to add: As far as the 911 call, I think the sentences can be interpreted in more than way.

So, that's my little nugget.

You asked for sources. Police Chief Mark Beckner and the GJ did not consider Burke a suspect. I don’t follow your logical progression, but he could not form intent for murder, so he could never be charged with murder, correct. Evidence points to an adult and Burke was almost certainly not involved with harming or killing his sister. Many people agree with you, all LE and GJ legal wording and evidence points to someone else. Jmo If this were a clear case, it would be solved.
Is Burke a suspect? He is…he isn’t…
He is…he isn’t…
The fact is no one knows legitimately. BPD has not issued any kind of official statement to that fact currently.

There is a tough new DA in Boulder currently…from NYC? Could be very positive.

And as far as is known, exactly what the GJ thinks is not publicly known. We can speculate-but the facts the indictments are based on are sealed along with the other 14 pages. What evidence, beyond a reasonable doubt, clears any of the three Ramsey’s that were in their home that night? It doesn’t exist IMO.
But, they are all involved somehow IMO.

Your opinion is that the evidence points to an adult only. I don’t agree or disagree. And I am here for opinions and theories and facts.

But honestly IF Burke Ramsey is completely innocent and his parents are guilty, IMO, what Burkes’s parents have done to their kids, their family is in the same realm of evil that murdered JonBenet. And if that is accurate, Burke and JAR still have time to slay the secrets that will forever threaten to destroy their lives - by telling the truth. Destroy that burden by breaking the cycle with the truth. MOO
*please excuse bold print/not yelling just on a learning curve…
 
Is Burke a suspect? He is…he isn’t…
He is…he isn’t…
The fact is no one knows legitimately. BPD has not issued any kind of official statement to that fact currently.

There is a tough new DA in Boulder currently…from NYC? Could be very positive.

And as far as is known, exactly what the GJ thinks is not publicly known. We can speculate-but the facts the indictments are based on are sealed along with the other 14 pages. What evidence, beyond a reasonable doubt, clears any of the three Ramsey’s that were in their home that night? It doesn’t exist IMO.
But, they are all involved somehow IMO.

Your opinion is that the evidence points to an adult only. I don’t agree or disagree. And I am here for opinions and theories and facts.

But honestly IF Burke Ramsey is completely innocent and his parents are guilty, IMO, what Burkes’s parents have done to their kids, their family is in the same realm of evil that murdered JonBenet. And if that is accurate, Burke and JAR still have time to slay the secrets that will forever threaten to destroy their lives - by telling the truth. Destroy that burden by breaking the cycle with the truth. MOO
*please excuse bold print/not yelling just on a learning curve…
Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner said Burke was never a suspect. That’s BPD. I quoted him in my first post when you asked for sources. He is not one of the controversial players that people tend not to believe in this case. A 9-year-old is not a viable suspect in this case. Feel free to disagree, but the evidence does not support a thin child committing accidental harm.

ETA: We agree that a new DA can only be a good thing. Although there have been several since 1996.
 
Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner said Burke was never a suspect. That’s BPD. I quoted him in my first post when you asked for sources. He is not one of the controversial players that people tend not to believe in this case. A 9-year-old is not a viable suspect in this case. Feel free to disagree, but the evidence does not support a thin child committing accidental harm.

ETA: We agree that a new DA can only be a good thing. Although there have been several since 1996.
Who is “we?”
 
Who is “we?”
“There is a tough new DA in Boulder currently…from NYC? Could be very positive.”

This is written in your post as if it is your words, but looking back it may by Chypre’s quote. I am willing to have dialogue and be patient with your formatting, but if you do not properly quote other people, it looks as if those words are yours.

Apparently “we” is @Chypre and I, but honestly, Websleuths in general and your posts in particular are impossible to follow logically.

Instead of asking me to clarify, perhaps it would save us both time for you to go back and re-read for own posts instead of making me do the work.
 
A child abuse expert named John McCann who examined the autopsy slides believed ongoing prior abuse.

The only member of law enforcement present at the time the body was recovered from the basement just so happened to be an experienced sex crimes investigator. She stated her belief in a 2000 depo that the perpetrator of "incest" was John Ramsey. She implied the Department of Social Services agreed with her.

John Ramsey's fibers link him directly to SA.

JBR's bedroom is situated a floor below the parents bedroom in an odd and isolated location, clear across the other side of the hall from Burke. The staircase leading up to the master bedroom bathroom happens to be right outside JBR's bedroom door.

Child abuse investigator Holly Smith, in an interview with the Denver Post made a point of saying a child's bedroom is an important part of any child abuse investigation. Holly Smith was a member of Boulder Social Services.

Susanne Bernhard assessed Burke Ramsey as being a child who'd been conditioned to keep secrets. She recommended a follow up for Burke in specifically the area of "uncomfortable touching". Susanne Bernhard is part of Boulder Social Services.

But it doesn't matter how many times I post this info. I get it. People want VERY badly to believe John is innocent and that Burke is the perpetrator. There is no evidence of this little boy's involvement but people say it doesn't matter and shouldn't, BDI is simply their theory. I don't really understand it but I know it'll continue.

I don't have an intuitive feeling about the case. Sadly, I believe the case is forever cold. I can see why some view JR as the culprit. He never loses his cool, does he? But as Burke's strange smile during the interview with Dr. Phil says nothing except for "some people have unusual affect", JR's "cool" might only mean "too analytical, too logical, trying to keep the fragile boat of his family together."

Overall, the family as a team appears cohesive...but the case, total bonkers. And everyone monetizes ut.

Today I was reading about Natalie Wood's career. Her death has some bitter analogy to JBR's case. Both are "four people in a locked room and later, one is found dead" cases.
Natalie drowned, the police was not called in time. After 25 years, the case is officially cold, but one can "loosely" guess the culprit. But what's there to say about the uninvolved ones? One, cowardly protecting own career, and the other one was drunk, scared or had some secondary gain. But - it should have been solved and closed in 1981.

Now take JBR: essentially, a similar scenario. Not quite transparent, but people's minds could be altered and reactions, triggered by earlier alcohol + paxil + clonazepam, or people were just such and the public never knew. With the same rate of certitude, we can suspect one of the three but IRL, probably only one was the culprit. The rest of the scenario is eerily similar: lawyer up, think of own career, while feeling very scared and - buying the time. And again, the case with the stupidest ransom note that ought to have been solved in 1997, is cold. We can say that at least, here the family has lost a lot, as the Rs in no way thrived later in life. But the same cowardice, huge egos, LE being called late and afterwards, dragging feet. All is so unnecessarily sad.
 
Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner said Burke was never a suspect. That’s BPD. I quoted him in my first post when you asked for sources. He is not one of the controversial players that people tend not to believe in this case. A 9-year-old is not a viable suspect in this case. Feel free to disagree, but the evidence does not support a thin child committing accidental harm.

ETA: We agree that a new DA can only be a good thing. Although there have been several since 1996.

“There is a tough new DA in Boulder currently…from NYC? Could be very positive.”

This is written in your post as if it is your words, but looking back it may by Chypre’s quote. I am willing to have dialogue and be patient with your formatting, but if you do not properly quote other people, it looks as if those words are yours.

Apparently “we” is @Chypre and I, but honestly, Websleuths in general and your posts in particular are impossible to follow logically.

Instead of asking me to clarify, perhaps it would save us both time for you to go back and re-read for own posts instead of making me do the work.
I have heard of the posts starting fires…
Not taking the bait.

I hardly have the power to “make” you do anything. LOL
 
But it doesn't matter how many times I post this info. I get it. People want VERY badly to believe John is innocent and that Burke is the perpetrator. There is no evidence of this little boy's involvement but people say it doesn't matter and shouldn't, BDI is simply their theory. I don't really understand it but I know it'll continue.
I have not seen anyone writing about a theory where they believe John is 100% innocent and Burke did it all (including SA) 100% all by himself. Or if, they are in a minority. People here discuss on many different theories and possibilities of what could have happened.

I for one do not see John as innocent. I believe he could be behind the SA. What I struggle with is if he did it also during the point of staging the crime, because I have not seen clear evidence of it. Yes there was blood and acute SA, but it could have also come from SA that occurred that night but some time before the staging part. It is a possibility.

IMO the biggest reason why I believe Burkes involvement is that there is staging and cover up done for the crime. Yes it could be done to cover up for each other too and I have never argued that. I just believe that it was done to cover up for Burke.

It is all my opinion and I am not here to persuade anyone to start believing the same. I accept and respect other theories and debate with them in a friendly manner. So I would just like to believe that we can all here feel free to discuss our theories, no matter if we think alike or not.
 
Has anyone ever seen any video footage of any kind where we see JR interacting with his children (I mean BR and JBR, not necessarily his older kids) in family outings or activities or anything like that? I mean before the murder. Home videos probably most likely, but maybe a televised local event or if they were ever on the news for any reason... Or what about the pageants? There are recordings of some of those, I think. Did JR even attend any? Pageant videos would probably only show JBR though. I've never heard if JR went to them or if it was just PR and JBR.

I'm interested in seeing how JR acted when he was just playing with the kids. If there are home videos available to watch, I guess JR might not show up in them much, because he may have been the one doing the recording most of the time. I just get the feeling that JR wasn't a very hands-on parent. I know he's called a workaholic by many, but was he really away or working THAT much of the time? I'm sure they took a lot of vacations. There may be some family videos they took while traveling.
 
Has anyone ever seen any video footage of any kind where we see JR interacting with his children (I mean BR and JBR, not necessarily his older kids) in family outings or activities or anything like that? I mean before the murder. Home videos probably most likely, but maybe a televised local event or if they were ever on the news for any reason... Or what about the pageants? There are recordings of some of those, I think. Did JR even attend any? Pageant videos would probably only show JBR though. I've never heard if JR went to them or if it was just PR and JBR.

I'm interested in seeing how JR acted when he was just playing with the kids. If there are home videos available to watch, I guess JR might not show up in them much, because he may have been the one doing the recording most of the time. I just get the feeling that JR wasn't a very hands-on parent. I know he's called a workaholic by many, but was he really away or working THAT much of the time? I'm sure they took a lot of vacations. There may be some family videos they took while traveling.
Good question! Supposedly the Ramseys took lots of home videos and pictures. I have only seen a few, and most of the videos are just of JB and BR, not the older children. Only pictures with the older children when they vacationed together, not videos. JR has said that he typically only attended the talent portion of the pageants. I have not seen any pictures of him in the audience, it's usually just JB on stage. He probably was there, but it was far more PR's thing than his.

By accounts we have heard, JR was considered a "good father". That said, he was an absent father a lot of the time. His first wife had sole custody of his older children. They lived in Atlanta while JR and his 2nd family moved to Boulder. JAR did attend college at UC Boulder for a period of time. But he did not live with the Ramseys, he may have on occasion, but he had an apartment with a roommate. He would drop off laundry and visit, but he did not live there. JR did work a lot and he travelled a lot for work. Even when PR was sick, he left the care of his children to others, most notably PR's mother Nedra. JR even had to be pulled aside and told he needed to think about what his wife was going through, take some time off to support her. That speaks volumes to me. He was consumed by his work. So he finally did take some time off for PR. But neither BR or JBR were spoken to about her illness. Not by their parents. Granted, JBR was still pretty young. But we have seen pictures of them with PR without hair. And we know she had to be isolated from them for weeks at a time. How do you not have a conversation with your children and answer any questions they might have?

Patsy and the kids would spend the summers in Charlevoix, while JR stayed behind in Boulder to work. We're taking for the months of July and August, not just a couple of weeks. He visited occasionally. Many of the vacations to places other than Charlevoix were taken by just JR and PR. He was not a hands on father, his philosophy was that was the mother's job to take care of the kids. You can tell by many of his interview answers with police. He kind of pretended to have knowledge of things pertaining to the kids when he obviously really did not,. But many of the answers were that PR might know that, not him.
 
Has anyone ever seen any video footage of any kind where we see JR interacting with his children (I mean BR and JBR, not necessarily his older kids) in family outings or activities or anything like that? I mean before the murder. Home videos probably most likely, but maybe a televised local event or if they were ever on the news for any reason... Or what about the pageants? There are recordings of some of those, I think. Did JR even attend any? Pageant videos would probably only show JBR though. I've never heard if JR went to them or if it was just PR and JBR.

I'm interested in seeing how JR acted when he was just playing with the kids. If there are home videos available to watch, I guess JR might not show up in them much, because he may have been the one doing the recording most of the time. I just get the feeling that JR wasn't a very hands-on parent. I know he's called a workaholic by many, but was he really away or working THAT much of the time? I'm sure they took a lot of vacations. There may be some family videos they took while traveling.

I think that JR said to the police that he helped Burke to assemble railroad and trains and played with airplanes. I think he was a STEM guy and probably more interested in “parallel play”.
 
I have read about this before. I wonder what is the background for that? Was she just angry about John cheating her to go and file for sole custody or was it something else?
Good question. In my childhood world it seemed like sole custody was a simpler decision back then of physical custody without a a legal plan for visitation or child support but would still have contact.
 
Here's one of the reasons I feel there's no chance that Burke killed his sister and his parents staged the scene.

If that had happened, there's no way the Ramseys would have let Burke go to the White's house--because they would have been afraid he'd tell what happened.

I
 
Here's one of the reasons I feel there's no chance that Burke killed his sister and his parents staged the scene.

If that had happened, there's no way the Ramseys would have let Burke go to the White's house--because they would have been afraid he'd tell what happened.

I
I see a way - they did not want Burke to be in the presence of police to ask questions or say anything that would indicate they or he knew something.

I rather do not see why would parents who's one child has really been kidnapped by a foreign faction need to send their other child away from police protection.
 
So I would just like to believe that we can all here feel free to discuss our theories, no matter if we think alike or not.
Do you know anything regarding discrepancies centered on a bicycle(s)s and whether one or two were given as
Christmas gifts that year? Or, if the children had bicycles?

A Youtuber has posted pretty detailed accounts (police investigation transcripts / video, news interviews and a variety of photos) that one, or both parents either deny that bikes were given at Christmas, and also provide fuzzy answers as to the subject of bikes and JBR.

Yet.... family photos, police photos, show or suggest bicycles in the home. Likewise, BR, in a later news interview maintains that bike(s) were given that Christmas.

The totality raises the subject of whether bikes were a sensitive topic, and if so, why?

There could be many explanations for the discrepancies or vagueness including: forgetfulness (X-mas at the Ramsey's could have been elaborate), a disagreement over when, say, JBR should risk riding one, and ....the possibility that JBR rode her brother's bike (favorite X-mas gift?) and triggered a rage of some sort?
 
Last edited:

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
129
Guests online
607
Total visitors
736

Forum statistics

Threads
625,645
Messages
18,507,486
Members
240,829
Latest member
The Flamazing Finder
Back
Top