CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #10

[believe09]

You're giving me the creeps, now that I can see where you are heading with this.

What I can't figure out is how he talked a bank or whatever into giving him the mortgage in the first place, balloon or otherwise. I had the impression that the days of no documentation needed loans was over.

OK an arms length agreement was signed, but is that just between the seller and the other people in the contract?

Hypothetically-what if Andrew was bff's with the person who gave him the loan at Caliber? They have offices in Orange County.

How many other ways can you creatively finance a property without putting essentially any money down on it...in the current market that is?

Pledged assets, balloon mortgage (and I still cant find down payment requirements for it)...what else?

Sheesh, I am going to go buy a house in Orange County. They didnt get the memo from corporations like CountryWide.

 

[believe09]

It is hard for me to believe that the dollar amounts here are a coincidence...Andrew walks from 700k+ which he and his aunt say was to be forgiven upon Bob's death.

Well his legal death hasnt occurred, but lets not split hairs.

Andrew quitclaimed Windflower back to his aunts in April of this year. Then he buys a 700k+ home with no downpayment.

Perhaps his wife has a well paying job. Like really well paying...hmmm but then why would they need to constantly run up their tab with the trust?

Good gravy. Again, from the 30K foot level, it looks like AH has benefited financially the most from Bob's disappearance. What I wouldnt give for Bob to come back and find his home stripped, his grandson's debt wiped out and his assets in the hands of the daughters who seemed to be at best estranged from him.

At least he would be reunited with Mrs Harrod.

Oh well. I am all ears about how this home purchase happened without the involvement of Bob's estate.

 

[GrainneDhu]

OK an arms length agreement was signed, but is that just between the seller and the other people in the contract?

Hypothetically-what if Andrew was bff's with the person who gave him the loan at Caliber? They have offices in Orange County.

How many other ways can you creatively finance a property without putting essentially any money down on it...in the current market that is?

Pledged assets, balloon mortgage (and I still cant find down payment requirements for it)...what else?

Sheesh, I am going to go buy a house in Orange County. They didnt get the memo from corporations like CountryWide.

I thought Cubby's post meant that even for a balloon or pledged asset mortgage, the buyer still has to pony up 10%.

Fudging on the property's fair market value? Say a hypothetical house was valued at $1 million and sold for $750K, could the buyer use some of that built-in equity to slither through the paperwork requirements assisted by a friend in the right place?

The only other thing I can come up with is that AH lied about his income, perhaps aided by documentation cooked up by his loving aunts.

If it were going to be a co-ownership, for instance AH and the Harrod family trust, the name of the trust would appear as co-owner.

Or...

A few years ago, when a business deal I had went bad, I consulted with a student who is a lawyer specialising in property law. She did a little poking around for me and figured out what my business partner was up to. I wish I could recall all the details but the ingredients were that my partner was claiming property that had been sold to me and recorded in my name as collateral for another loan. She forged my signature to the supporting documents, taking them in already signed and then signing them herself in the presence of the notary. Which is supposed to be a big no-no but in practice, some notaries are stricter in their observance of the letter of the law than others.

I got out just in time. I considered suing my former partner but my own lawyer did some research and said that in his opinion, I had a strong case but there were so many other people in line ahead of me that he did not think I would ever be able to recover a judgment from her (the blood from a turnip principle of liability protection).

How difficult would it be to find out if any of Bob's property has a lien against it?

Or am I totally off base here?

 

[believe09]

I thought Cubby's post meant that even for a balloon or pledged asset mortgage, the buyer still has to pony up 10%.

Fudging on the property's fair market value? Say a hypothetical house was valued at $1 million and sold for $750K, could the buyer use some of that built-in equity to slither through the paperwork requirements assisted by a friend in the right place?

The only other thing I can come up with is that AH lied about his income, perhaps aided by documentation cooked up by his loving aunts.

If it were going to be a co-ownership, for instance AH and the Harrod family trust, the name of the trust would appear as co-owner.

Or...

A few years ago, when a business deal I had went bad, I consulted with a student who is a lawyer specialising in property law. She did a little poking around for me and figured out what my business partner was up to. I wish I could recall all the details but the ingredients were that my partner was claiming property that had been sold to me and recorded in my name as collateral for another loan. She forged my signature to the supporting documents, taking them in already signed and then signing them herself in the presence of the notary. Which is supposed to be a big no-no but in practice, some notaries are stricter in their observance of the letter of the law than others.

I got out just in time. I considered suing my former partner but my own lawyer did some research and said that in his opinion, I had a strong case but there were so many other people in line ahead of me that he did not think I would ever be able to recover a judgment from her (the blood from a turnip principle of liability protection).

How difficult would it be to find out if any of Bob's property has a lien against it?

Or am I totally off base here?

Another stellar idea. Windflower was quitclaimed back to the aunts. In April. The only other properties that belong to Bob, IIRC, are his home in Placentia and PB's and possibly JM's in RS?? Heck, maybe RB's too. *Shrug*

 

[believe09]

So what we have here is essentially a no down payment mortgage. I mean, 14K is nothing when you consider the price of the house.

Interesting. Good for him. I wonder if no downpayment mortgages are common in OC?

 

[believe09]

Let's consider a few hypotheticals, maybe-

If we have someone who has owned a privately financed home that he walked away from yet still resided in mortgage payment free for two years his credit would not be affected by the default...that seems to be a given.

If we assume that this person is employed, his credit score is reasonable because he doesnt have a recent default (in spite of really having a default) and he wants to buy another home. He purchases a home and takes on a jumbo mortgage.

From this point going forward, how does this work for him? No down payment needed. It has to be some kind of collateral he has available to him. Maybe a previously owned home that is now owned by family. Maybe a document that pledges him a certain share of an estate in the future?

Cubby, would that previously owned home value or asset have to equal the amount of the new mortgage? Or come close? If it is a pledged asset kind of mortgage, that is.

We need Gitana. Maybe she has some insight here as well.

 

[Cubby]

There is no way of knowing how AH secured the mortgage without seeing the actual file to indicate what conditions the mortgage company set with this particular loan in order to approve the mortgage and to determine how AH met those conditions.

LE has to obtain that info from the mortgage co. Hopefully that's being done behind the scenes as LE works to solve this case.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Another stellar idea. Windflower was quitclaimed back to the aunts. In April. The only other properties that belong to Bob, IIRC, are his home in Placentia and PB's and possibly JM's in RS?? Heck, maybe RB's too. *Shrug*

Having taken some time to let my idea germinate, I wonder if it is possible that AH got a home equity loan against a property owned by Bob and used that loan money to pad out his down payment.

Given the possibly unwitting assistance of a banker, mortgage broker or someone like that, who may have let the rules slide just a little bit. Say, by notarising a document with two signatures where only one signatory was actually present.

Or heck, if AH's name was on the deed as the only owner of Windflower, then maybe he got a home equity loan on Windflower.

Is Bob still listed as the owner of Windflower or has it been sold on?

 

[believe09]

One more question for Cubby who is being hammered by us-is there any way AH could be considered a first time home buyer?

 

[Cubby]

My knowledge of first time home buyer programs goes back to before the market tanked. My recollection of those programs is they were specific area driven, where funding was available for various area's/zip codes. I'd say in this case, for AH's most recent purchase, no. Not in an affluent area where jumbo mortgage limits exceed the national average for limits. There would be no need for first time buyer programs in those area's. If they still exist.

 

[believe09]

Bumpity. I am going to check and see when Disappeared is airing the show.

 

[Cubby]

Bumpity. I am going to check and see when Disappeared is airing the show.

Thank you, believe'. I keep searching for info on an air date and can't find anything. I need to have my sons Godmom record it for me (no tv here except for the wii) - and I will need a little advance notice to have her record it.

I'm going to recommend recording it, for any who can, as I am sure some of us who have been glued to this case for years will want to watch it a few times. Like a movie, there are always things we don't see the first time through. Which is why it is so important to record Bob's episode.

And maybe we can see if PattyG can record it and upload it to her info for the missing? Additionally, I am hoping someone can find the link where they stream this episode online and add it here.

:waiting: I am soooo looking forward to this show!

Still praying for justice for Bob - and arrests for those responsible for disappearing him and anyone with a hand in covering it up. (and yes, I think there have been great efforts made for a cover up.)

Justice for Bob!! :candle: :jail:

 

[GrainneDhu]

Thank you, believe'. I keep searching for info on an air date and can't find anything. I need to have my sons Godmom record it for me (no tv here except for the wii) - and I will need a little advance notice to have her record it.

I'm going to recommend recording it, for any who can, as I am sure some of us who have been glued to this case for years will want to watch it a few times. Like a movie, there are always things we don't see the first time through. Which is why it is so important to record Bob's episode.

And maybe we can see if PattyG can record it and upload it to her info for the missing? Additionally, I am hoping someone can find the link where they stream this episode online and add it here.

:waiting: I am soooo looking forward to this show!

Still praying for justice for Bob - and arrests for those responsible for disappearing him and anyone with a hand in covering it up. (and yes, I think there have been great efforts made for a cover up.)

Justice for Bob!! :candle: :jail:

BBM

Oh yes yes yes, I hope PattyG will upload it! I don't have TV here, not broadcast or cable, so the only way I will be able to watch it is if it is streamed on the internet somewhere.

 

[believe09]

Bumpity...I think there is a trial setting conference this week for the rent issue.

 

[cloudajo]

30-2009-00297798-PR-TR-LJC
HARROD - TRUST - TRUST PROCEEDINGS


Hearings:

• 09/17/2012 - (P) TRIAL SETTING CONFERENCE
• 09/19/2012 - (P) TRUST PETITION
• 10/18/2012 - (P) MOTION – OTHER

Register of Actions:

• 09/12/2012 - PAYMENT RECEIVED BY FOR 68 - SUBSEQUENT PAPERS-PROBATE: MOTION, APPLICATION OR OTHER PAPER REQUIRING A HEARING AFTER THE FIRST PAPER; CERTAIN SUBSEQUENT PETITIONS, APPLICATIONS, OR OTHER OPPOSITION IN THE AMOUNT OF 60.00, TRANSACTION NUMBER 11222533 AND RECEIPT NUMBER 11046425.
• 09/12/2012 - (P) MOTION - OTHER SCHEDULED FOR 10/18/2012 AT 01:30:00 PM IN L72 AT LAMOREAUX JUSTICE CENTER.
• 09/12/2012 - MOTION - OTHER FILED BY BORCHER, PAULA S.; BRADY, ROBERTA D. ON 09/12/2012

https://ocapps.occourts.org/ProbPubv2/Home.do


NOTICE TO ATTORNEYS / PROBATE EXAMINERS NOTES
https://cfapps.occourts.org/calendars/probnotesroot/probnotesv3/30-2009-00297798-PR-TR-LJCM71526001.html

 

[Opie]

Sorry, my work experience is in the medical field and I am woefully ignorant of all things legal. Can someone translate that for me? Thanks.

Still hoping for justing for M/M Harrod.

 

[cloudajo]

Believe, do you know what each of these hearings is about?

I think one is a request that Fontelle pay rent, per previous probate notes?

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #9

 

[Laughing]

Believe, do you know what each of these hearings is about?

I think one is a request that Fontelle pay rent, per previous probate notes?

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #9

Oh that's just wrong. I sorta understand that the "trust" owns the house, but please? A new low, even for this case! she's just trying to live with her husband and someone ( or some group) prevents that!

Low, low, low :maddening:

Laughing

 

[GrainneDhu]

Oh that's just wrong. I sorta understand that the "trust" owns the house, but please? A new low, even for this case! she's just trying to live with her husband and someone ( or some group) prevents that!

Low, low, low :maddening:

Laughing

Gee, you mean it's not normal for a husband to charge his wife rent? <sarcasm>

 

[believe09]

Oh yes. There is a pretty big imbalance here. It is OK for Andrew to walk away from a 735K debt in order to prevent a drawn out, expensive attempt on the part of the trust to evict him or to get him to honor his debt.

BUT, There are repeated requests to charge Mrs Harrod rent for staying in the marital residence. She is still Bob's wife.

Oh and lets not forget how they went to the mat to sue BL for money they alleged she borrowed from Bob. That was an incredibly expensive case for them to pursue and it had zero foundation. The judges ruling was scathing.

It would be funny if it werent so blatantly, obviously malicious. imo.