CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #10

[zwiebel]

I have had to inform myself of property, inheritance and capital gains tax and stuff in a few countries. The strangest one was France, where children often inherit bits of a single property. One poor lady purchased a house then discovered one of the sons still owned and wanted to use the shower room in the middle of it! Shower room was in the kitchen too, another odd thing about some of the old houses there.
Unfortunately I have nothing for the US. Where's the tax lawyers when you need them?

 

[zwiebel]

Reading up on tax is a certain way to scramble a person's brain. A quick scan looks like the donor or executors of an estate are responsible for paying the tax on a gift? You guys even have a special tax for grandkids (GST, generation skipping transfer). That's mean! I suppose the question is, when does a loan become a gift?

http://www.ehow.com/info_7971302_tax-implications-10000-monetary-gift.html

 

[believe09]

In regards to calling in a missing person report-there are federal guidelines which have been in place, since 1996 I believe. They are uniform across the states, but this is specific for California:

There is NO waiting period for reporting a person missing. All California police and sheriffs' departments must accept any report, including a report by telephone, of a missing person, including runaways, without delay and will give priority to the handling of the report

From the CA DOJ Website

On top of this, as has been mentioned by almost everyone, we have an 81 year old man with bad knees disappearing on a very hot and humid day. SIL is in the home for 4-6 hours. SIL leaves his work undone and goes home, apparently unconcerned that his FIL has disappeared. Somewhere in the next 5-6 hours someone calls Mrs Harrod in MO and asks her or tells her to file a MP report?

Boggles the mind. PPD had and has a long history with high profile MP cases (Lynsie Ekelund) as well as MP cases involving less media. They know the drill-lets face it, no one would tell an immediate family member not to file a report, or even to wait. Their best chance of finding Bob was closer to the time he disappeared naturally.

Depending on your favorite number on the timeline, Bob was missing at least 10 hours when someone instructed (my word) Mrs Harrod to call.

Maybe we can resurrect for our newer posters some of the work done around Bob's possible location. We have a SAR thread here that gives a number of areas that are included in grids that have been done.

 

[shana]

Reading up on tax is a certain way to scramble a person's brain. A quick scan looks like the donor or executors of an estate are responsible for paying the tax on a gift? You guys even have a special tax for grandkids (GST, generation skipping transfer). That's mean! I suppose the question is, when does a loan become a gift?

http://www.ehow.com/info_7971302_tax-implications-10000-monetary-gift.html

Here you go...a FAQ, but lots more to be read on the IRS site itself. This is not a simple area of the law, btw, so do take your time. ;-)

Frequently Asked Questions on Gift Taxes

As for your questions on GST, that issue becomes more evident if applicable as the Estate/Trust progresses thru Probate until finalized. For now:

Generation-skipping transfer tax

Yes, this discussion could certainly use a lawyer specializing in Wills & Trusts to elucidate some issues raised. Of course, said lawyer would not be privy to the details of the arrangements made by the Harrod Family without their express permission.

Finally, are you aware that AH's loan has already been settled by agreement?

~jmo~

 

[shana]

bbm

I agree with you that there is little chance that Bob is still alive. Even if he suffered from that old standby of thrillers amnesia, someone would have found him by now and there would be media stories to find out who knows him. Likewise if he'd left the house and had a stroke or whatever that left him unable to communicate.

Cubby suggested a forensic accountant should go through Bob's financial records for the last several years, maybe even from before Georgia died.

I sincerely hope the police are doing that.

In fact, Cubby, if you didn't call that suggestion in, I'll do it.

Hi GrainneDuh! (OT: one of these days, I'd like to learn how to pronounce your name...I've tried several but Grannie is not among them. ;->)

If Cubby hasn't, I do hope you will call the suggestion, just in case the PPD hadn't considered it already. I mention, however, that forensic accountants are quite expensive (at least here in CA), and LE may be budget-strapped for such an expenditure.

My personal hope - and sincere belief - is that LE is looking for Mr. Harrod and not in Probate/Civil Court documents. I'll take it a step further and say that I feel assured that this is what is indeed happening.

~jmo~

 

[GrainneDhu]

In quite a few instances it seems tax and financial authorities have much wider powers to act and have less restraints than LE. I guess those kind of investigations cost a lot though, so they tend to go after the big money. Wasn't that what Al Capone was finally jailed for? Financial activities rather than his gangster crimes?
So glad you called in your missing colleague straightaway GrainneDhu. Weren't you afraid LE would scold you for not waiting 24 hours?

Al Capone, tax evasion. Flout the police, flout the FBI, just don't flout the IRS.

No, it didn't worry me that they might scold me. For one thing, talking to the dispatcher, I started crying. Not intentionally but because I was so certain something bad had happened to my volunteer. She was disabled and on medical retirement, so she worked 3 volunteer shifts a week and I knew her pretty well. I knew she'd never blow off her shift. And I knew about her medical condition, too, since she didn't want me to accept her as a volunteer without knowing about it. I knew the dispatcher was convinced something was wrong.

And I already had my next option in mind when I called the police. If they didn't go over there, I was going to go over there myself and break in. I was absolutely certain she was at home and unable to communicate or she would have let us know not to expect her that day.

Better the police do it than me, but if I had to, I would.

And if my second option hadn't worked, then I would have called her son's PD and have them track him down to help check on his mother.

And if my third option didn't work, I don't know what I would have done but I trust I would have been suitably inspired at that point.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Reading up on tax is a certain way to scramble a person's brain. A quick scan looks like the donor or executors of an estate are responsible for paying the tax on a gift? You guys even have a special tax for grandkids (GST, generation skipping transfer). That's mean! I suppose the question is, when does a loan become a gift?

http://www.ehow.com/info_7971302_tax-implications-10000-monetary-gift.html

My guess would be that the IRS would say that the instant an entity stopped acting like a bank and started acting like a relative, the so-called loan becomes a gift.

 

[GrainneDhu]

bbm

Hi GrainneDuh! (OT: one of these days, I'd like to learn how to pronounce your name...I've tried several but Grannie is not among them. ;->)

If Cubby hasn't, I do hope you will call the suggestion, just in case the PPD hadn't considered it already. I mention, however, that forensic accountants are quite expensive (at least here in CA), and LE may be budget-strapped for such an expenditure.

My personal hope - and sincere belief - is that LE is looking for Mr. Harrod and not in Probate/Civil Court documents. I'll take it a step further and say that I feel assured that this is what is indeed happening.

~jmo~

The pronunciation of the name depends on what bit of Ireland you're from. The bit that my great-auntie Grainne was from pronounced it "GRAH-nya."

I figure that by this time, LE is no longer running active searches for Bob, mostly because no one really knows where to start looking. I think that if they can afford it, a forensic accounting might give LE a new line to follow.

 

[shana]

The pronunciation of the name depends on what bit of Ireland you're from. The bit that my great-auntie Grainne was from pronounced it "GRAH-nya."

I figure that by this time, LE is no longer running active searches for Bob, mostly because no one really knows where to start looking. I think that if they can afford it, a forensic accounting might give LE a new line to follow.

OT: Thank you very much! I am going to re-train my mind to say GRAH-nya...is the Duh prounced like Doo?

Back to case: I agree, LE may not have the slightest clue where to look, and it would need that to request funding on such searches.

I also hope that LE has some leads and continues to follow them up.

Sure would be nice to get an update!

~jmo~

 

[Cubby]

With regards to the suggestion of calling PPD.... I have not. LE has investigated Mr Harrod's case as a possible homicide since at least October of 2009. I'm pretty sure the use of a forensic accountant is one of many avenues they are pursuing or have considered pursuing.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/-214111--.html

 

[zwiebel]

The pronunciation of the name depends on what bit of Ireland you're from. The bit that my great-auntie Grainne was from pronounced it "GRAH-nya."

I figure that by this time, LE is no longer running active searches for Bob, mostly because no one really knows where to start looking. I think that if they can afford it, a forensic accounting might give LE a new line to follow.

I'm convinced the name thing is just to tease and get the English tripping over themselves, but then I am firmly attached to someone born in the Emerald Isles! When I was young, the first time I saw my friend Siobhan's name written down, I had absolutely no idea it was her....

 

[GrainneDhu]

OT: Thank you very much! I am going to re-train my mind to say GRAH-nya...is the Duh prounced like Doo?

Back to case: I agree, LE may not have the slightest clue where to look, and it would need that to request funding on such searches.

I also hope that LE has some leads and continues to follow them up.

Sure would be nice to get an update!

~jmo~

The 'Dhu' is pronounced about halfway between "dew" and "do." Not so much of a "yuh" sound as in hue or dew. Together, it's the Irish version of "Grace Black" or "Black Grace" (meaning a black haired woman named Grace).

I have a horrid feeling that Bob's case is running out of leads and the Discovery show is a Hail Mary pass. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[believe09]

OT: Thank you very much! I am going to re-train my mind to say GRAH-nya...is the Duh prounced like Doo?

Back to case: I agree, LE may not have the slightest clue where to look, and it would need that to request funding on such searches.

I also hope that LE has some leads and continues to follow them up.

Sure would be nice to get an update!

~jmo~

:waitasec:

 

[believe09]

The 'Dhu' is pronounced about halfway between "dew" and "do." Not so much of a "yuh" sound as in hue or dew. Together, it's the Irish version of "Grace Black" or "Black Grace" (meaning a black haired woman named Grace).

I have a horrid feeling that Bob's case is running out of leads and the Discovery show is a Hail Mary pass. I hope I'm wrong.

BBM-finding him would be the best option, sure. I have no doubts that the PPD is well informed regarding the civil/probate case. For anyone investigating a possible money motive here, there is a whole lot of crossover.

Any way you slice it, no matter who your favorite candidate it, money seems to be at the heart of Bob's disappearance. At least that is the one area everyone seems to agree on.

Money being the motive, at least IMO, makes it even more confusing as to why BL or Mrs Harrod would be candidates at all.

 

[zwiebel]

BBM Here you go...a FAQ, but lots more to be read on the IRS site itself. This is not a simple area of the law, btw, so do take your time. ;-)

Frequently Asked Questions on Gift Taxes

As for your questions on GST, that issue becomes more evident if applicable as the Estate/Trust progresses thru Probate until finalized. For now:

Generation-skipping transfer tax

Yes, this discussion could certainly use a lawyer specializing in Wills & Trusts to elucidate some issues raised. Of course, said lawyer would not be privy to the details of the arrangements made by the Harrod Family without their express permission.

Finally, are you aware that AH's loan has already been settled by agreement?

~jmo~

Thanks Shana, I was aware but my point wasn't clear. The settlement was with the estate, yes? But AH was vague on amounts, dates, repayments and loan status. So I wondered, if there was a profit, if the IRS would be okay with that or AH had to come up with precise info when he made his declaration. Liabilities and allowances might have meant a loss was made of course, so then nothing would be payable. Though more details would have been needed to prove a loss as well as a profit, I'd imagine.

 

[zwiebel]

Al Capone, tax evasion. Flout the police, flout the FBI, just don't flout the IRS.

No, it didn't worry me that they might scold me. For one thing, talking to the dispatcher, I started crying. Not intentionally but because I was so certain something bad had happened to my volunteer. She was disabled and on medical retirement, so she worked 3 volunteer shifts a week and I knew her pretty well. I knew she'd never blow off her shift. And I knew about her medical condition, too, since she didn't want me to accept her as a volunteer without knowing about it. I knew the dispatcher was convinced something was wrong.

And I already had my next option in mind when I called the police. If they didn't go over there, I was going to go over there myself and break in. I was absolutely certain she was at home and unable to communicate or she would have let us know not to expect her that day.

Better the police do it than me, but if I had to, I would.

And if my second option hadn't worked, then I would have called her son's PD and have them track him down to help check on his mother.

And if my third option didn't work, I don't know what I would have done but I trust I would have been suitably inspired at that point.

If I ever go missing, I want you to be in charge of the search.

 

[believe09]

If I ever go missing, I want you to be in charge of the search.

Me too. And Cloudajo, Angelo, suzyq, Montjoy, Cubby.....the list goes on and on...

 

[zwiebel]

GrainneDhu is going to be really busy if we all go missing at once.
I'm still stuck on the tax thing here. The BL seems to be the only person where a gift has been definitely confirmed (her own word and a judge's). So that would be a good reason for Mr Harrod to keep the paperwork around if it's true the donor pays the gift tax. Would that mean when the BL was taken to court by the executors, it wasn't just the cash gift they were fighting for, but so they didn't have to pay the tax in addition?
Sad thing is, I think the best person to answer my questions would be Mr Harrod - I get the feeling he was pretty sharp when it came to financial planning.

 

[Cubby]

The 'Dhu' is pronounced about halfway between "dew" and "do." Not so much of a "yuh" sound as in hue or dew. Together, it's the Irish version of "Grace Black" or "Black Grace" (meaning a black haired woman named Grace).

I have a horrid feeling that Bob's case is running out of leads and the Discovery show is a Hail Mary pass. I hope I'm wrong.

Thanks for the info on your user name, GrainneDhu, I have wondered too. It's good to know the meaning behind the name.

As far as a hail mary pass type scenario for Bob's case, I think there are a great many cases out there, possibly this one too, where LE knows exactly who is responsible. They also know there is a difference between knowing who did it and proving beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law. IMO, in this case, LE knows who did it, it's just a matter of reaching that beyond a reasonable doubt threshold. Where exactly they are, I don't know. I just hope they are much closer to an arrest and conviction than any of us know.

 

[Cubby]

Something else to consider. LE also stated early on they were going to be cautious with information provided because they didn't want to alert any possible suspects. Keep that in mind with answers provided by or allegedly provided by LE that are not found in what WS considers credible sources such as MSM or court documents.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/-214111--.html