CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #10

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  • #821
I just can't figure out this leaving the back door unlocked Angelo. Anyone could have walked in while JeM was away. Are we sure he didn't unlock it?
Anyone could have been upstairs waiting for him to return. Who knows? Perhaps someone was, and snuck out while the CL's back was turned.

I find the lock/unlock/key/no key situation completely...odd and improbable.

I also find Mr. Harrod's car parked on one specific side of the driveway odd. Seems like if you only had one vehicle you'd just pull in center, unless you were expecting another vehicle(s). I wonder when Mr. Harrod last operated his vehicle- and if it was operated by anyone else after he disappeared?
 
  • #822
I find the lock/unlock/key/no key situation completely...odd and improbable.

I also find Mr. Harrod's car parked on one specific side of the driveway odd. Seems like if you only had one vehicle you'd just pull in center, unless you were expecting another vehicle(s). I wonder when Mr. Harrod last operated his vehicle- and if it was operated by anyone else after he disappeared?

There's some interesting thoughts there, but I hope this doesn't mean we have to start pondering about a bunch of car keys too.....don't know if I can cope!
 
  • #823
Just remembered the police report said the door to the garage from the house couldn't be opened because of clutter. Don't know the drive arrangement, but maybe he kept the car to one side to allow him to enter garage through the outside door?
 
  • #824
Help someone - I don't know if I'm supposed to shut up and wait now or do something else. Mr Zweibel won't help me either, he's just laughing.

Zweibel, you are a breath of fresh air and I hope you do not stop posting.

I was a little obsessed over the arrest in the Jessica Ridgeway case, so I missed most of today.
 
  • #825
For zwiebel and those newer to Mr. Harrod's case.

The following is a video of Bob's youngest daughter JuM the day following her fathers disappearance.

http://www.ktla.com/videobeta/watch/?watch=ac85bbd7-919c-45df-8bff-de9407f59354&src=front

Transcribed from that video: "I will be here to greet his new wife..."

Does anyone else remember the old MAD Magazine and the feature that showed someone talking with a bubble indicating what they weren't saying?

I can't help myself, a little voice in my head said "... and rip the sheets right off her bed."
 
  • #826
I'm still working on the phone and key situation. But considering we are discussing theories right now, and experience with these sorts of crimes and crime scenes- thought I'd put in my two cents from a SAR pov.

I went back through some MP files we had from years ago, because I had this nagging thought in my head of a similar case here.
Sure enough, it was an elderly man with a lot of money whose home had been robbed and he was gone without a trace. A very private man with a small group of close friends. His wife was still living at the time (since passed) but was out at an event at the time of the burglary. He was known to be home, and that was because his wife called from the event to ask if he needed anything on the way home. This was about an hour before she arrived back at their residence to find it robbed and he missing.

He was found a short bit later, he had been murdered -head trauma- and dumped in a field several miles away.

So...the initial thought process was home invasion/random stranger/possibly someone that targeted the family. It turned out it was the couple's 45 year old son who had a lifelong beef against his dad, a drug habit, and mental illness.

Ya'll see where I'm going with this?

I think so.

I think such a situation is a double tragedy for the wife. She not only lost her husband but her son as well. I imagine she never dreamed her son could do something like that, so finding out that he could must have shaken all her foundation assumptions about the people she knew and the world as she knew it.

It makes me wonder if there are one or more people in this situation who fear a similar double loss.
 
  • #827
What amazes me about this case is that through the the strangest twist of fate it ends up with a possible crime scene that is cleaned three times before LE got a chance to examine it; JeM after his work, the CL doing her job; then JuM topping it all off with the sheets and anything else she thought needed adjusting. Could there be much evidence left of anything after that?

I did wonder why the police report said there were no signs of a struggle/disturbance. Maybe they hadn't had a chance to talk to the CL then, and no-one else had bothered to inform them about the unusual, unmade bed.

It is amazingly difficult to completely remove blood from most home surfaces. Even if it looks clean to the eye, there are so many tiny little cracks (say between the baseboards and walls) that blood can remain in for literally years, through thousands of cleanings.

Unfortunately, things like closed head injuries (where the skull is fractured but the skin remains intact) and strangulation often don't leave much in the way of blood behind.

Does anyone know if the Placentia PD ever processed Bob's home forensically?
 
  • #828
Thank you so much for the link Cubby. With the kind help of Mr Zwiebel I have finally managed to watch the video.
All I'll say is, even Mr Zwiebel noticed, and I truly believe JuM was scared at that point.

My question is: scared of what?

Clearly not afraid to go to Bob's home alone.
 
  • #829
I am still trying to envision the key situation on the ground in Placentia. Who had them and who didnt, that is. CL didnt-she would have gone inside of the house. JeM didnt have at least the key to the front door-he had to go around back to the door he left open even though Bob was home. (If Bob was at all security conscious, wouldnt he have locked the back door when he left as well as the front door?)

AH was right down the street from Bob-he must have had a set of keys.

How common is it for people to have the front and back door locks keyed differently?

I ask because it would never occur to me to have different keys for the different locks. Keeping track of just one key is clearly beyond us here because we haven't seen it in over 5 years (we live in a very safe rural area).

It suddenly struck me that I don't think I know anyone who had different keys for the locks on the exterior doors in a modern house.
 
  • #830
I find the lock/unlock/key/no key situation completely...odd and improbable.

I also find Mr. Harrod's car parked on one specific side of the driveway odd. Seems like if you only had one vehicle you'd just pull in center, unless you were expecting another vehicle(s). I wonder when Mr. Harrod last operated his vehicle- and if it was operated by anyone else after he disappeared?

At first, having helped my mother in the years before her knee replacements, I thought the car was parked on that side of the driveway so as to be just a few steps closer to the front door. Watching those clips of Bob moving around, I recognised that careful don't-jar-the-aching-knees gait. When knees hurt, even saving three steps is significant.

But he had a garage. A double car garage, in fact. Wouldn't it save even more steps to just pull into the garage and enter the house that way? It was July and southern California. It had to be really hot during the day, why leave the car out to turn into an oven?

Plus, Bob seemed like a frugal person (which is praise from me) and he must have known that too much sun fades a car's upholstery and paint, lowering the eventual resale value. Using a garage at home can add hundreds of dollars onto a car's value at trade-in time (well, actually, prevent the loss of hundreds of dollars but you know what I mean).

It may be too late now but I wonder if Bob's car had GPS; if so, that would reveal the last time it was driven.
 
  • #831
At first, having helped my mother in the years before her knee replacements, I thought the car was parked on that side of the driveway so as to be just a few steps closer to the front door. Watching those clips of Bob moving around, I recognised that careful don't-jar-the-aching-knees gait. When knees hurt, even saving three steps is significant.

But he had a garage. A double car garage, in fact. Wouldn't it save even more steps to just pull into the garage and enter the house that way? It was July and southern California. It had to be really hot during the day, why leave the car out to turn into an oven?

Plus, Bob seemed like a frugal person (which is praise from me) and he must have known that too much sun fades a car's upholstery and paint, lowering the eventual resale value. Using a garage at home can add hundreds of dollars onto a car's value at trade-in time (well, actually, prevent the loss of hundreds of dollars but you know what I mean).

It may be too late now but I wonder if Bob's car had GPS; if so, that would reveal the last time it was driven.

No GrainneDhu, I'm not stopping. The worst that will happen is that I'll get lost looking for something right here on the site, then I'm sorta relying on you coming to find me!

Re the forensics on the house, I don't know about at the time but I think believe09 mentioned a recent (2011) forensic examination a page or two back. I'm glad to know there might still have been something to find.

The lock situation I can't work out at all. It's really uncommon here to have a door on the house that doesn't just lock automatically, the moment you shut it. You would also have trouble buying locks that open with the same keys, except for those little window ones.

From what I can gather, Bob just used his garage for storage and not parking or as a cut through - the police said they couldn't open the door in the house that gave access because it was jammed with stuff. So I don't know if it was even looked at properly at the time.

Re poor, poor little Jessica, Cubby mentioned an arrest earlier and I took a look. The suspect's mom is a very brave woman. She'll be feeling absolutely devastated now. She'll also be feeling a huge weight has lifted from her shoulders and she can have a life again now, though it will be a different one.
 
  • #832
I've been looking at the Kathleen Savio case too. You know, the one where her husband tried to drown her in the tub and make it look like an accident? He had to get violent in the end though, and that eventually gave him away.
 
  • #833
Though I can't pretend to know every person acquainted with Bob of course, everything I've heard suggests his social circle was very small and he had little contact even with people like doctors or dentists (dental records seemed to be unavailable on the report?)

Politely snipped. Just FYI, they were able to get dental records later and are available per the NAMUS record for Bob (see link below).

Dental
Status: Dental information / charting is available and entered

https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/case_report_html/2706
 
  • #834
I believe the Model A car was in the garage. It is #29 on the “memorabilia” list that JuM wrote: “29. 1923 Model A Doctor’s Coupe what ever it is belongs to Joseph and Andrew”

From the Missing Person’s Report:

  • “Andrew located an unlocked door leading to the garage on the west side of 522 Carnation, but it would only open approximately 2” due to the clutter inside the garage.”
  • “We followed Andrew downstairs and out the garage. The garage was very cluttered, but Andrew said it has always been that way.”
On August 12, 2009, daughter PB posted: Yes, D is a packrat, but the house was not that bad, on the other hand the reason his car was NOT parked in the garage were because of "F"'s packages that were shipped. Had nephew try to go through garage on Tuesday, he could not get through because of all the boxes, but the garage was opened upon "F"'s arrival and there was nothing there. No other crawl spaces.

Daughter RB also posted on another site that Fontelle had shipped 22 medium sized boxes of her belongings from MO via UPS. When Bob was at home, he had the driver put them inside the garage. And when not at home, some were delivered to the front porch.

I don’t know if UPS made a delivery on the day Bob went missing.
 
  • #835
I believe the Model A car was in the garage. It is #29 on the “memorabilia” list that JuM wrote: “29. 1923 Model A Doctor’s Coupe what ever it is belongs to Joseph and Andrew”

From the Missing Person’s Report:

  • “Andrew located an unlocked door leading to the garage on the west side of 522 Carnation, but it would only open approximately 2” due to the clutter inside the garage.”
  • “We followed Andrew downstairs and out the garage. The garage was very cluttered, but Andrew said it has always been that way.”
On August 12, 2009, daughter PB posted: Yes, D is a packrat, but the house was not that bad, on the other hand the reason his car was NOT parked in the garage were because of "F"'s packages that were shipped. Had nephew try to go through garage on Tuesday, he could not get through because of all the boxes, but the garage was opened upon "F"'s arrival and there was nothing there. No other crawl spaces.

Daughter RB also posted on another site that Fontelle had shipped 22 medium sized boxes of her belongings from MO via UPS. When Bob was at home, he had the driver put them inside the garage. And when not at home, some were delivered to the front porch.

I don’t know if UPS made a delivery on the day Bob went missing.

cloudajo, I can only thank you once again. It's making better sense now, but I still have issues; it looks like LE said they couldn't open the inner door and yet later, walked through it? Then RB seems to be suggesting AH was not able to check the garage at all on Tuesday, but wasn't that the day LE made the report?
 
  • #836
I believe the Model A car was in the garage. It is #29 on the “memorabilia” list that JuM wrote: “29. 1923 Model A Doctor’s Coupe what ever it is belongs to Joseph and Andrew”

From the Missing Person’s Report:

  • “Andrew located an unlocked door leading to the garage on the west side of 522 Carnation, but it would only open approximately 2” due to the clutter inside the garage.”
  • “We followed Andrew downstairs and out the garage. The garage was very cluttered, but Andrew said it has always been that way.”
On August 12, 2009, daughter PB posted: Yes, D is a packrat, but the house was not that bad, on the other hand the reason his car was NOT parked in the garage were because of "F"'s packages that were shipped. Had nephew try to go through garage on Tuesday, he could not get through because of all the boxes, but the garage was opened upon "F"'s arrival and there was nothing there. No other crawl spaces.

Daughter RB also posted on another site that Fontelle had shipped 22 medium sized boxes of her belongings from MO via UPS. When Bob was at home, he had the driver put them inside the garage. And when not at home, some were delivered to the front porch.

I don’t know if UPS made a delivery on the day Bob went missing.

Wouldnt that UPS driver be someone to find?? I bet he could give a schedule of boxes being delivered and who met him when he delivered them. Better yet, I suspect Mrs Harrod has all of her proof of delivery receipts, and I am sure she turned them over to PPD.

This supports another point, I think. Clearly the girls picked up their mother's things if all that was in the garage was Fontelle's things. And that is why the garage was unable to be opened.

Why would 22 boxes fill up a two car garage?

So AH went to the trouble of attemptng the garage on Tuesday? I wonder why he and PPD didnt make that attempt together the previous evening?

At least it supports another point, which was Andrew was with his mother at some point on Tuesday. But then again PB indicates that they waited until Fontelle came home before they actually made it through the garage.

That seems cruel to both Mr and Mrs Harrod. It makes the story somewhat suspect to me. If I thought there was a chance that my elderly father or evidence of his disappearance was somewhere in that garage, I would have emptied every thing into the drive way or the yard in my quest for him.

And,what changed between Tuesday and Wednesday that the garage was suddenly accessible via some crawl type spaces?

PB seems to be at the heart of another strange, makes no sense story.
 
  • #837
I think so.

I think such a situation is a double tragedy for the wife. She not only lost her husband but her son as well. I imagine she never dreamed her son could do something like that, so finding out that he could must have shaken all her foundation assumptions about the people she knew and the world as she knew it.

It makes me wonder if there are one or more people in this situation who fear a similar double loss.


I think the answer is evident in the behavior we've seen from family over the last three years. In fact, I think it's their worst fear.

ETA: After catching up on overnight posts, I can't help but wonder fearing a triple loss.... I think it was you, zweibel, who mentioned upthread once a line is crossed it could easily be crossed again. It got me wondering, what thin line of balance must be holding this all together, and what small set of circumstances might offset that balance bringing Bob the justice he deserves. It might be closer than any of us realize.
 
  • #838
cloudajo, I can only thank you once again. It's making better sense now, but I still have issues; it looks like LE said they couldn't open the inner door and yet later, walked through it? Then RB seems to be suggesting AH was not able to check the garage at all on Tuesday, but wasn't that the day LE made the report?



I believe there are two garage doors aside from the one for the vehicle. One from inside the garage into the home, and the other on the side of the garage opening to a sidewalk area alongside the house.

I had always assumed it was the door from the garage to the outside sidewalk area that was blocked, not the door leading from the garage into the home.
 
  • #839
I think the answer is evident in the behavior we've seen from family over the last three years. In fact, I think it's their worst fear.

ETA: After catching up on overnight posts, I can't help but wonder fearing a triple loss.... I think it was you, zweibel, who mentioned upthread once a line is crossed it could easily be crossed again. It got me wondering, what thin line of balance must be holding this all together, and what small set of circumstances might offset that balance bringing Bob the justice he deserves. It might be closer than any of us realize.

Cubby, I can't pretend to understand the dynamics of a family where you communicate with your father about your dead mother's possessions, via an attorney's letter. I sense huge gaps in the lines though; there's all these indirect figures of speech: 'it was stated' and 'I heard'. I'd expect to hear something more on the lines of: 'When I took someone by the ears and demanded to know more about that day, they said....'

People have distanced themselves, IMO. Someone will fall through the cracks and I suppose you just have to hope it's the right person. And Disappeared airs soon. That might well tip the scales just enough.
 
  • #840
Bob was maybe/probably/definitely wearing an all-white outfit the day he disappeared (surely that at least, should have been memorable? As memorable as if someone had been, say, naked?) Does anyone else think it sounds like the result of someone being asked a question they can't answer, then coming up with the first color they can think of, off the top of their head.......and keeping right on going.

I've been wondering if the bathroom that needed repairs that day was Bob's regular one - where he might take his bath in the morning.

Do any of our people with crime scene knowledge know if there would be any chance of forensic evidence being gathered from a water outlet/ drain after a period of three years?

Has anyone here seen any pictures of Bob wearing an all-white outfit - or even a white shirt - in say, the last ten years of his life. I have only seen him in pretty colorful ones but am happy to be corrected!
 
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