CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #11

[zwiebel]

I've been searching and searching. I'm sure tlcox could help with this one - very frustrating because of the combination of missing person/poss wrongful death suit. I'm not finding anything. And I keep citing california in my google search but I've just read two huge legal dos, then realized one was from Manila, and the other suddenly mentioned 'her majesty'. Grrrrrr. I need google seach lessons.

 

[zwiebel]

And I need to learn how to spell......

 

[zwiebel]

Please don't click on this link hoping for an answer specific to Bob's situation - you'll be disappointed. But I had to post this link for our legal eagles because it's amazing; either a court document written like a novel, or a novel written like a court doc. I've never seen anything like it.
http://www.lakesidepress.com/pulmonary/books/Wall/2-Trial-Day1.htm

 

[Cubby]

http://nobodycases.com/blog/

There might be info about wrongful death suits in the above blog, so parking it here...

 

[Cubby]

Ah, just scrolling through the nobodycases blog and ran across one case in CO with a secret indictment. Now that's a secret I'd like to see in this case! Justice is coming for Bob, I can just feel it!

 

[zwiebel]

'Survival Claims Belonged To The Dead Victim Before They Passed Away.

Conversely, a survival action is a course of action that belonged to the decedent (dead person) and passed on his or her expiration to the decedent's estate.

Because anyone entitled to inherit are allowed to bring a survivor's actions, a person OTHER than the person entitled to bring a wrongful death action may be entitled to recover*

Claims made under Code Civ. Proc. Sec. 377.60 have a two year statute of limitations.......But in a Survival action, the statute of limitations starts running on the date the claim actually arose to the deceased, and is sometimes lengthened.'

Bearing in mind I cannot copy and paste from anything online and have written this out by hand then typed it into my post......there may be something useful here for Bob's situation? The precise meaning eludes me each time I read it, but maybe?

Here's the link:*http://www.ehlinelaw.com/pages/3093/Wrongful-Death-Survival-Action-Differences.htm

 

[zwiebel]

Oh, now I find all Tort Law stems from English Common Law.
So, it's our fault. I apologise. It's all written like that so only people wearing funny wigs can understand it.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/cultur...ters-wigs-theyre-pompous-pointless-and-itchy/

ETA: Those wigs are made of horsehair! English barristers wear dead horses on their heads. Well.

 

[zwiebel]

Just noticed that legal link I posted is run by a US Marine! What a coincidence.

 

[zwiebel]

Gosh, I wouldn't argue with him......would you? (gitana1, that wasn't addressed to you. I already know your answer is yes) Lol!

 

[Cubby]

Coroner case #701207592 -- On 10-29-12, at approximately 2:30 p.m., two hikers found human skeletal remains in the open desert northeast of Barstow. The San Bernardino Sheriff's Department Homicide Division is investigating the incident. Once the decedent has been identified and family notified the name will be released to the public. Anyone with information is urged to contact the San Bernardino Sheriff Department (SBSD) – Homicide detail at (909) 387-3589 or (800) 78-CRIME. [103112 1245 TC]

http://www.co.san-bernardino.ca.us/sheriff/coroner/PressRelease.asp


BARSTOW • Two hikers found human remains in the desert near Barstow and the death is being investigated as a potential homicide, coroner officials said Wednesday.

http://www.vvdailypress.com/news/barstow-37394-human-remains.html

Not much info on these skeletal remains. Will keep an eye out to see if they are added to NamUs.

 

[gitana1]

I'm not sure it's still possible. The statute of limitations on wrongful death lawsuits in CA is 2 years.

I think an attorney would have to tell us if the two years started when Bob disappeared, or is yet to start and starts upon his being declared deceased.

The statute thus means that an individual has only two years in which to file a lawsuit for their damages resulting from a personal injury or wrongful death.

http://blog.sebastiangibsonlaw.com/...-procedure-section-335-1-explained-by-lawyer/

IANAL. A wrongful death lawsuit is a civil case. A civil wrongful death lawsuit can be brought against someone even if they have not been convicted criminally.

I'm going to guess the two years starts when Bob is declared deceased, because how could one file a lawsuit if the person is not yet known to be deceased? Though again, IANAL so we'd really need a lawyer to explain this further.

ETA: The burden of proof in a civil case is lower than in a criminal case, though again, IANAL so this is just laymans info.

That's right. It would start to toll from the time a death certificate is issued. SOL's generally begin to toll when a party knew or should have known about the wrongful act. We have serious suspicions but no one can say for a certainty, in the absence of a death certificate, whether Mr. Harrod is dead or how he died. Maybe once they declare him dead, so they can collect their filthy loot, Mrs. Harrod will sue the pants off them. Oh, I would love that!!!!

 

[zwiebel]

Coroner case #701207592 -- On 10-29-12, at approximately 2:30 p.m., two hikers found human skeletal remains in the open desert northeast of Barstow. The San Bernardino Sheriff's Department Homicide Division is investigating the incident. Once the decedent has been identified and family notified the name will be released to the public. Anyone with information is urged to contact the San Bernardino Sheriff Department (SBSD) – Homicide detail at (909) 387-3589 or (800) 78-CRIME. [103112 1245 TC]

http://www.co.san-bernardino.ca.us/sheriff/coroner/PressRelease.asp


BARSTOW • Two hikers found human remains in the desert near Barstow and the death is being investigated as a potential homicide, coroner officials said Wednesday.

http://www.vvdailypress.com/news/barstow-37394-human-remains.html

Not much info on these skeletal remains. Will keep an eye out to see if they are added to NamUs.

Oh wow cubby.

 

[zwiebel]

Where's that map I posted? I can't even find my own posts now.

 

[Cubby]

San Bernardino is a very large county in CA. Larger than several states, I'm sure. Barstow comes up from time to time as a location skeletal remains are found. We tend to keep an eye on the SB county coroners press release site as well as NamUs because SB is the county the last known person to see Bob resides....

 

[Cubby]

Where's that map I posted? I can't even find my own posts now.

Here are two ways to search zwiebel. To search within this thread, go to the upper right where it reads search, click on the advance search button and type in map or maps. That could help search within a single thread.

To search the entire forum, which is particularly helpful when searching not just this thread, but older threads go to the top search and choose advanced search. That option is the only way I can find stuff here. Don't forget to choose the option which shows the results by post versus thread. Otherwise you'll you have no idea where within a thread the post you are searching rests!

 

[GrainneDhu]

I'm not sure it's still possible. The statute of limitations on wrongful death lawsuits in CA is 2 years.

I think an attorney would have to tell us if the two years started when Bob disappeared, or is yet to start and starts upon his being declared deceased.

The statute thus means that an individual has only two years in which to file a lawsuit for their damages resulting from a personal injury or wrongful death.

http://blog.sebastiangibsonlaw.com/...-procedure-section-335-1-explained-by-lawyer/

I think a strong argument could be made that it should start at the time the missing person is declared dead. Particularly in a wrongful death suit where part of the argument would be that Bob's body was deliberately hidden in order to delay knowledge of his death.

It would be blackly ironic if whoever did this breathed a sigh of relief on the 2nd anniversary of Bob's disappearance... only to discover that via their own efforts, the clock kept on ticking.

 

[zwiebel]

Here are two ways to search zwiebel. To search within this thread, go to the upper right where it reads search, click on the advance search button and type in map or maps. That could help search within a single thread.

To search the entire forum, which is particularly helpful when searching not just this thread, but older threads go to the top search and choose advanced search. That option is the only way I can find stuff here. Don't forget to choose the option which shows the results by post versus thread. Otherwise you'll you have no idea where within a thread the post you are searching rests!

Thank you. I'm such a geographically dislocated person, I had already given up and googled instead. It's a long way away, isn't it? Wouldn't really fit any of our timelines....for what they're worth.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I'm confused about wrongful death. Is it criminal, I mean, can a person be charged with wrongful death?

As I understand it, the advantage to bringing a civil suit for wrongful death is that the burden of proof is lower in civil court.

In criminal court, the burden of proof is beyond a reasonable doubt. In civil court, the burden of proof is the preponderance of the evidence.

There are cases where LE was never able to make a strong enough case to charge the suspected perp but someone with standing was able to prove via the preponderance of the evidence that the suspect was guilty of wrongful death.

Filing a civil suit, though, is a rocky road and before doing so, the plaintiff has to ask themself if they are committed to basically marrying themself to the case. The plaintiff has to do a lot of work, go over the events in question over and over, etc. It can be gruelling and just plain awful.

 

[GrainneDhu]

A quick google search indicates there wasn't much time between the criminal and civil suits in the Simpson case. The murders occured in June of 1994 and by sometime in 1997 the civil wrongful death suit had been won. It was in 2008 the civil wrongful death suit was upheld. Not sure if you are recalling the 97 or 2008 civil case info.... my quick source was wiki, but I'm sure the data is close enough for a general idea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O._J._Simpson_murder_case

I don't know that the Simpson case is a fair comparison here. There was no delay in Nicole's case with having her declared deceased and a lengthy period of time in which she was missing.

Perhaps a case more similiar to Bob's in which a no body civil case was awarded for a wrongful death case? None come to mind off the top of my head and admittedly, I haven't searched for any as of yet. Any other WS'rs incl. gitana1 know of any civil wrongful death cases in which the MP has been declared deceased but never found? In the event Bob is declared deceased while still missing.

My guess would be to check out deaths related to cruise ship drownings. There is an amazing number of them, there's rarely criminal charges brought and the families are left with filing a civil suit or nothing.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Oh, now I find all Tort Law stems from English Common Law.
So, it's our fault. I apologise. It's all written like that so only people wearing funny wigs can understand it.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/cultur...ters-wigs-theyre-pompous-pointless-and-itchy/

ETA: Those wigs are made of horsehair! English barristers wear dead horses on their heads. Well.

HA! Try reading about Louisiana law, which is based on the Napoleonic code. Makes English common law seem intuitive.