CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #11

[Seajay]

To answer a few questions. One Cubby pretty much answered. The school year out here in Southern California use to run from the second week of September to the second week of June. Then came summer vacation, where the weather is at it's best and vacations are going on.

Several years back, California went to Year Around School in it's most populated areas. The kids started going to school on "tracks." I'm not sure how that works exactly because my kids finished up school right before California went on the "track" system. But basically it staggers the school year so everyone wasn't all in school at the same time.

Regarding the 91 freeway. That thing is miserable any time of the year, day or night. I have rarely been on it where it wasn't stop and go through the Weir Canyon area.

Usually there is a ranger booth at the head of a California State Park where they charge admission. If someone has reservations for campgrounds, they've already pre-paid for them online. If they campground is not full, they will take money at the gate for campsites. But most places are reserved well in advance. They also allow entry for day use as well at most of them.

 

[zwiebel]

Thank you so much for the local info, Seajay. I think with that info I would tend towards abandoning Chino Hills as a location of interest. There are better places. I'm torn about the highway though. I can't decide, if I had abducted someone, if I would rather be on a crowded highway where passing police would be unlikely to notice me, or a less crowded suburban road. I suppose it all would depend on how much time I had.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Just to add, I know what a dog indicating means now. No barking, it just looked intently at the object, then straight at the trainer across the field, as if to say, 'I've found it, what are you waiting for?' Unmistakeable.

Keep in mind that it depends on the dog. Some dogs are easy to read, some dogs are a real challenge. Handlers train the dog in a specific behaviour to associate with indication to make it less ambiguous.

Tangential thought: tracking is so self reinforcing for dogs that they will ignore food and ignore items to indicate on if their handler isn't on the lookout for that. It's like the dog gets so caught up in working out the problem that they don't want to stop for anything.

 

[GrainneDhu]

BBM


Just bumping this because I had a thought. Are we absolutely sure they didn't?

One of the daughters (PB, I believe but I could be wrong) was complaining because Bob hadn't provided them with copies of Georgia's will.

That always seemed really stupid to me because duh, if it meant that much to her, she could have gone to the courthouse and gotten a copy for the price of the copy (some minimal amount to use the copy machine).

That's how a WS member got a copy of the will. It was filed with the county, so it is publicly accessible.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Bob Harrod and his three daughters had an argument over finances the Sunday before he vanished.

His daughter, Roberta, acknowledged the exchange, saying her father lost his temper. She said he had failed to provide copies of their mother's will, which he was obligated to do because of the financial mechanisms set up by the estate.

"It wasn't a heated meeting," she said in a phone interview. "Dad got heated. He's very selfish, very conditional. The day before he went missing in the afternoon, he was going to provide us copies of the will, and we went over to get the copies. He didn't have them."

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...+Robert+Merle+Harrod&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

I guess I just wondered why she would insist and insist dad do something for her which she could have simply gone to the court house and done herself.

Plus, her mobility is undoubtedly better than Bob's ability to walk on his two bad knees.

Then again, why do anything for yourself if you have a lifelong history of demanding that Daddy do it for you?

 

[zwiebel]

One of the daughters (PB, I believe but I could be wrong) was complaining because Bob hadn't provided them with copies of Georgia's will.

That always seemed really stupid to me because duh, if it meant that much to her, she could have gone to the courthouse and gotten a copy for the price of the copy (some minimal amount to use the copy machine).

That's how a WS member got a copy of the will. It was filed with the county, so it is publicly accessible.

I think what I'm trying to say is what if someone OTHER than the daughters had already obtained a copy of the will, and he/she just hadn't told them?
I don't know of course, but I thought the contents of G's will, might give an indication of what Bob's would contain; how things were divided up between them?

 

[zwiebel]

BBM

Keep in mind that it depends on the dog. Some dogs are easy to read, some dogs are a real challenge. Handlers train the dog in a specific behaviour to associate with indication to make it less ambiguous.

Tangential thought: tracking is so self reinforcing for dogs that they will ignore food and ignore items to indicate on if their handler isn't on the lookout for that. It's like the dog gets so caught up in working out the problem that they don't want to stop for anything.

From personal experience I know they will also ignore cliff edges.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I think what I'm trying to say is what if someone OTHER than the daughters had already obtained a copy of the will, and he/she just hadn't told them?
I don't know of course, but I thought the contents of G's will, might give an indication of what Bob's would contain; how things were divided up between them?

As I recall, Georgia's will is not remarkable. It's one page and leaves everything to the Harrod Family Bypass Trust. Keep in mind that Georgia apparently went through a long decline before she died, so it was fairly clear that she would pre-decease Bob and her will probably reflected that assumption.

Of course, my memory is shot, so don't take my word for it.

 

[zwiebel]

Oh no, I'm behind everybody again! I thought the will hadn't been seen yet. Where did you see it GrainneDhu?

 

[Seajay]

I remembered this morning that the 91 Freeway has a "Fast Track." It's got two HOV lanes. Toll Road in other words. Someone with a transponder could use the 91 and get through faster with one. (Sorry, my mind gets stuck on the past. For years the 91 freeway was free with a car pool lane. Then several years ago they decided to widen it and in order to pay for it then turned two lanes into lanes they charge a fee. I don't travel it enough to get a transponder so I don't think about that part of the 91.)

 

[Seajay]

I just saw the news clip from ABC Channel 7 (our local station) about Bob's disappearance. I wanted to cry. No way after a life time away from each other and just barely getting back together, and finally marrying his first love would he have gone ANYWHERE voluntarily.

Evil played an important part in this story. Greed and evil. Especially after the family meeting where he basically told them the gravy train had stopped. That must have scared the living bejesus out of them. Someone anyway.

 

[zwiebel]

Thank you so much for your local input Seajay - it is so invaluable, especially for an outsider like me. Now I'm back to agonising over the highway again.
I know what you mean about wanting to cry, and I haven't even seen Bob's videos yet. There is just something about him and his situation that makes my heart go out to him and his wife. Her grace and dignity throughout the years has also been so touching.

 

[Seajay]

I would suspect that no matter what Bob did in his life, Fontelle was never far away from his thoughts. She was his first love. He probably spent a lot of time on the "what ifs" through his years with Georgia, building a family, building a life. Somewhere in the recesses of his mind, Fontelle held a place. He may have lived his life thinking that if Fontelle ever came back to it, he'd want her to see all his successes and accomplishments, always thinking that he would want her to be proud of him.

For them to be given a second chance was probably way beyond his wildest dream. To get the answers to his "what ifs" were finally coming to fruition. He had married her within weeks after them being back in each other's lives. That love had not died, it was alive and well and looking forward to a future of them spending their Golden Years together. I would imagine to them, they weren't 81 and 77. They were 22 & 18 or whatever age they were when they saw one another last. Even if their bodies were old, falling apart, when they looked at one another, they saw the young person they fell in love with and wanted to marry.

I'm sure that meeting up with Fontelle again gave Bob new life, new hope, a future. He would defend that against anyone who came up against him, including his whole family. It was his time for happiness and I imagine that no one was going to take that from him. And I'm sure he wanted to share everything he had with his beloved Fontelle, for after all, she was probably behind much of his success. His children might have seen this woman as an interloper or gold digger, but Bob saw her as his beautiful 20 something year old fiancee.

Someone stole that from him. Someone stole that from Fontelle. Someone was greedy and evil and filled with entitlement, that when they saw things slipping away from them, they decided to do something about it.

Bob needs to be brought home to Fontelle. She's been waiting. And Bob needs justice for the years of happiness he still had ahead of him with his first true love that they stole.

 

[SuziQ]

IMO, the heated meeting wasn't about getting a copy of the will at all. It just doesn't make sense that they wouldn't already have the will and knowledge of it's contents. I'd bet it was about bullying Bob into complying with the daughters demands. Demands that he change the will to benefit them in the near future, and also not include Fontelle.

ETA: AH had already made mention of the heated family meeting so there was no backtracking on that. So instead of revealing themselves in a negative, selfish and incriminating light, they blamed Bob and his supposed lack of providing the will.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Oh no, I'm behind everybody again! I thought the will hadn't been seen yet. Where did you see it GrainneDhu?

A pdf of it was linked somewhere in Bob's threads.

It may well be different in California but here in Iowa, no one at the courthouse keeps track of who looks at copies of what public documents. You just go to the correct desk, make a request and the clerk brings out the document you want to look at. If you want a copy, there is a copy machine right there and it is something like 25 cents per page (may be less now). You can't take documents away with you but you can make copies and take the copies.

So if Bob had lived in Iowa, there would be no way to know for sure who had seen copies of what documents. Unless the person requesting documents had stood out in some way so as to be memorable to the clerk.

 

[zwiebel]

In reply to Seajay's lovely post above.

Yes, that's exactly what Bob's friend PE described; that Bob had gained a new zest for life and he'd never seen him so happy. This was so tragic and my heart goes out to Mrs Harrod's family too, because they must have been so happy and proud they helped bring this about, then suddenly everything came crashing down around them.
I know that there is no going back in time, but I hope with all my heart that at least Bob can be found so that at least the fairytale can have its ending, though I fear it can only be a sad one now.

 

[zwiebel]

IMO, the heated meeting wasn't about getting a copy of the will at all. It just doesn't make sense that they wouldn't already have the will and knowledge of it's contents. I'd bet it was about bullying Bob into complying with the daughters demands. Demands that he change the will to benefit them in the near future, and also not include Fontelle.

ETA: AH had already made mention of the heated family meeting so there was no backtracking on that. So instead of revealing themselves in a negative, selfish and incriminating light, they blamed Bob and his supposed lack of providing the will.

Yes, although didn't one of his aunts contradict him and say the meeting wasn't heated and then she blamed any ill-will on Bob? That's another thing that makes me sad, the thought of his last evening having been filled with demands and fighting over wills - or to put it another way - money and stuff. I wish he'd given it all away, stuffed his pockets with whatever cash he had to hand and driven off into the sunset after Fontelle.

 

[zwiebel]

I still can't find the will. I'm sure I'm missing something here. All I can find is posts with the case number.

 

[believe09]

I just saw the news clip from ABC Channel 7 (our local station) about Bob's disappearance. I wanted to cry. No way after a life time away from each other and just barely getting back together, and finally marrying his first love would he have gone ANYWHERE voluntarily.

Evil played an important part in this story. Greed and evil. Especially after the family meeting where he basically told them the gravy train had stopped. That must have scared the living bejesus out of them. Someone anyway.

:grouphug:

 

[Cubby]

IMO, the heated meeting wasn't about getting a copy of the will at all. It just doesn't make sense that they wouldn't already have the will and knowledge of it's contents. I'd bet it was about bullying Bob into complying with the daughters demands. Demands that he change the will to benefit them in the near future, and also not include Fontelle.

ETA: AH had already made mention of the heated family meeting so there was no backtracking on that. So instead of revealing themselves in a negative, selfish and incriminating light, they blamed Bob and his supposed lack of providing the will.

Thank you, I think your right. IMO the statement that this was about not receiving a copy of their mothers will, when the will was filed with the court and easily available to any of the daughters who chose to go get themselves a copy, is one of those inaccuracies similiar to the target of a timeline.