CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - # 3

[Cubby]

Originally Posted by cloudajo
I'm working on a map to show points within range of 2 hours, 20 min of driving time (one way) from Bob's house (assumes no traffice since not rush hour). That would be 4 hours 40 min total. Will that work?

looking forward to the map cloudajo! TY! :blowkiss:

 

[Cubby]

I'm confused. The page with a smiley face was on the later link while a frowning face was on the previous link posted. Are these two different my space pages?

See link again, This is one page. If you look at the http address you can cleary see this is one myspace page. And yes the smiley face is still there. Sweet, how can Bobs daughters possibly be smiling about their missing dad? Such a shame.......

hth

 

[Montjoy]

In the Robert Harrod myspace blog --

http://www.myspace.com/robertharrodmissing/blog

we read: "Robert asked his son in law to go to Home Depot to pick up supplies. His son in law left about 11am."

I'm confused -- I thought that the SiL was overheard telling Bob that he was going to go to HD. And I would have thought that the person making repairs would have been the one to need to pick up supplies on his own account (but that is just an assumption; I guess Bob could have asked him to get things for him, as I doubt he liked going to HD). If Bob had needed things from HD, though, might he not have asked the SiL to pick them up *before* he arrived initially? He clearly would have known that he needed them early in the morning, with the SiL's departure still listed at 11 AM.

 

[Cubby]

In the Robert Harrod myspace blog --

http://www.myspace.com/robertharrodmissing/blog

we read: "Robert asked his son in law to go to Home Depot to pick up supplies. His son in law left about 11am."

I'm confused -- I thought that the SiL was overheard telling Bob that he was going to go to HD. And I would have thought that the person making repairs would have been the one to need to pick up supplies on his own account (but that is just an assumption; I guess Bob could have asked him to get things for him, as I doubt he liked going to HD). If Bob had needed things from HD, though, might he not have asked the SiL to pick them up *before* he arrived initially? He clearly would have known that he needed them early in the morning, with the SiL's departure still listed at 11 AM.

IMO this is part of the wrench trying to be tossed into Bobs case.
I posted previously it is darn near impossible to over hear what anyone in the background of a telephone call is saying. Ask yourselves, when did you EVER clearly hear what an adult is saying in the background of a telephone call? It simply doesn't happen. The only time it happens is when a toddler, preschool age or young child is on a parents lap while the parent is on the phone.

 

[believe09]

In the Robert Harrod myspace blog --

http://www.myspace.com/robertharrodmissing/blog

we read: "Robert asked his son in law to go to Home Depot to pick up supplies. His son in law left about 11am."

I'm confused -- I thought that the SiL was overheard telling Bob that he was going to go to HD. And I would have thought that the person making repairs would have been the one to need to pick up supplies on his own account (but that is just an assumption; I guess Bob could have asked him to get things for him, as I doubt he liked going to HD). If Bob had needed things from HD, though, might he not have asked the SiL to pick them up *before* he arrived initially? He clearly would have known that he needed them early in the morning, with the SiL's departure still listed at 11 AM.

OK, well now we have a timeline that has run amok. Who is minding the myspace? I know dream was kind enough to set it up, and dream stated it was turned over to family lock stock and barrel. So someone in the family is posting on it-is that a fair statement?

If SIL went to HD at 11AM, it took him a while to get there...brb. I am going to check and see if there is a Home Depot somewhere that would take SIL 4 hours to drive to, but 30 minutes to return from....

 

[Cubby]

dreamweaver turned the FB and Myspace pages for Bob over to his daughters some time ago. dream' will be able to say exactly when those pages were turned over. It was a sometime ago.

ETA: the erroneous times were provided by Bobs daughters to the missing persons sites such as project jason and the others or the others like charleyproject also picked up the erroneous times... No attempts- that we can see - were made to correct the times. In fact, some postings have been made to discredit the media timelines. I wonder why that is? hmmm......

I tend to place credit with the media info as LE has been quoted as the source for the media info and I believe the info given to the media by LE is LE's independently verified info.

moo

 

[believe09]

Robert with home repairs. Robert asked his son in law to go to Home Depot
to pick up supplies.
His son in law left about 11am.
That is the last time anyone has seen Robert.

When his son in law arrived back home about 1pm, Robert was not there.
There was a housekeeper waiting by the front door. She had been there for a half hour and no one was home.
Robert was gone. So was his car keys and wallet.
Everything else was in the house.


Read more: http://www.myspace.com/robertharrodmissing/blog#ixzz0xdNoTjEI

So almost 30 days after Bob disappeared, the info out in the media was still so grossly incorrect? Who was the source of it, I wonder? Via receipt, SIL was at Home Depot at 3:04PM IIRC.

How awful....and the everything else in the house comment...I wonder when the hat and the glasses were discovered as missing. Or was it just the hat?

 

[believe09]

OK, so we should still be working on 10AM-3PM I would think as our window....because we have the housekeeper as an independent witness.

 

[Cubby]

OK, well now we have a timeline that has run amok. Who is minding the myspace? I know dream was kind enough to set it up, and dream stated it was turned over to family lock stock and barrel. So someone in the family is posting on it-is that a fair statement?

If SIL went to HD at 11AM, it took him a while to get there...brb. I am going to check and see if there is a Home Depot somewhere that would take SIL 4 hours to drive to, but 30 minutes to return from....

BBM. :floorlaugh:

Media articles quote LE having been told by SIL he left Bobs home about 2:30 or 2:40 pm IIRC.
I do not believe LE has verified where SIL was at 2:30 or 2:40pm. He could have been anywhere at that time and returning from anywhere at that time.

How far is Lucerne Valley, CA from that home depot? Would SIL have had time in those 4.5 hours to drive to Lucerne Valley, CA in that time or not? Of course if time does not allow it doesn't mean SIL could not have driven to Lucerne Valley, CA after the 6pm time he said he left Bobs home.

moo

 

[Cubby]

OK, so we should still be working on 10AM-3PM I would think as our window....because we have the housekeeper as an independent witness.

yes, definatley the 10am - 3pm window.

 

[Montjoy]

I don't think we should treat the myspace blog as a 'media' account, per se -- (I'm not sure that people here are, but I believe it was written by a family member rather than culled from another source). I went looking to find some media accounts listing the 11 AM departure, and found this:

from:
http://www2.ocregister.com/articles/harrod-loomis-family-2513035-home-police

"Harrod was last seen by his son-in-law, Jeff Michaels, around 1:30 p.m. on Monday. Harrod, a former contract manager, sent Michaels to Home Depot, but when Michaels returned, Harrod was no longer in the house, said Loomis.

"His receipt showed that he paid for his items after 3 p.m.," Loomis said. "He thinks he was at Home Depot for 45 minutes to an hour, so given 15 minutes or so of driving time, you're looking at 1:30.""

Edit:

Ah, of course -- daughter J said in an on-camera interview that they believed he disappeared between 11-12.

 

[Montjoy]

Too late to edit, but the above should have read 12-1PM (or in the daughter's words, "one o'clock...noon?".

 

[dreamweaver]

dreamweaver turned the FB and Myspace pages for Bob over to his daughters some time ago. dream' will be able to say exactly when those pages were turned over. It was a sometime ago.

ETA: the erroneous times were provided by Bobs daughters to the missing persons sites such as project jason and the others or the others like charleyproject also picked up the erroneous times... No attempts- that we can see - were made to correct the times. In fact, some postings have been made to discredit the media timelines. I wonder why that is? hmmm......

I tend to place credit with the media info as LE has been quoted as the source for the media info and I believe the info given to the media by LE is LE's independently verified info.

moo

I was pretty sure I turned over the MySpace page to daughter in mid to late August 2009.
I just checked my notes from then.
I turned it over on Aug. 22, 2009.

fwiw: I compiled the media links.
I also got the information/times, etc. from the daughters.

I also asked for Robert's favorite songs, color, etc., so the MySpace page
would represent him.

 

[Cubby]

thank you dreamweaver. So you added the links prior to turning over the myspace and FB to Bobs daughters. It doesn't look like they have updated much.... I hate the sinking feeling that they are going to try and blame you for adding that smiley face. Since I am not a myspace user, I think, but am not sure, that the mood can be changed at any time and the owner/user option can set the mood to show the date changed or have the date the mood was changed invisible. Is that correct? I would just hate to see these women take a stab at you when you were so kind to set up both pages to help Bobs case.

phew......

tia

 

[Angelo]

I don't think we should treat the myspace blog as a 'media' account, per se -- (I'm not sure that people here are, but I believe it was written by a family member rather than culled from another source). I went looking to find some media accounts listing the 11 AM departure, and found this:

from:
http://www2.ocregister.com/articles/harrod-loomis-family-2513035-home-police

"Harrod was last seen by his son-in-law, Jeff Michaels, around 1:30 p.m. on Monday. Harrod, a former contract manager, sent Michaels to Home Depot, but when Michaels returned, Harrod was no longer in the house, said Loomis.

"His receipt showed that he paid for his items after 3 p.m.," Loomis said. "He thinks he was at Home Depot for 45 minutes to an hour, so given 15 minutes or so of driving time, you're looking at 1:30.""
Edit:

Ah, of course -- daughter J said in an on-camera interview that they believed he disappeared between 11-12.

BBM

This is another example of the ever changing timeline. Later it changes to SIL going to Home Depot around 2:30.

I wonder if PPD checked surveillance video at Home Depot. If so, did that cause the change from "45 minutes to an hour" to a quick "in and out" at the Home Depot.

 

[cloudajo]

Yes....I think that there are people who are genuinely looking for him, Fairy.

I think there were SAR searches done, fwiw-I doubt they were done with any kind of notification to the media. I dont have any inside info to that effect-just a strong suspicion because this detective is very on the ball. Now, air and ground scent will disappear within 3-5 days IIRC. So if we are looking for an ambulatory Bob, the critical piece for me is wondering when LE figured out this was not a runaway groom...if it took a few days, then evidence of him walking away from his home would be tough to get using a dog.

If we believe that Bob is currently unable to speak for himself, then cloudajo's map etc will be really really helpful in looking for possible place Bob might have been left on a Monday in July. To me, that is usually a busy day of the week regardless of where you are, and people are out an about. So where could he have been placed quickly that would not draw attention?

If this helps.

Published July 30, 2009

Detective Loomis stated: "My personal sense was that if he did not return home by dark Wednesday night, we have a big problem," Loomis said. "We didn't ramp up a serious investigation in hopes he would come home yesterday. That was the break point."

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/07/page/2/

 

[cloudajo]

Map

• Yellow houses represent Bob’s and daughters’ houses. I did not use names or initials, just the town name.
• Red markers show approximately how far someone could go if driving 2 hours, 20 min from Bob’s house (total of 4 hours, 40 min round trip, if we base possible travel timeframe on just after 10AM phone call and just before 3PM). How far one could drive will vary depending on which roads/highways are taken. I just picked a few routes going out from Bob’s house in different directions to show a possible range.
• Red triangle shows approximate area where human bones were found on March 16, 2010 (Lucerne Valley near Harrod Road). From Placentia, it’s about 2 hours one way if Route 15 is taken, however, it’s a little more than 2 hours, 20 min via the route that goes by Running Springs.
• Pink markers show the Home Depot stores near Bob’s house. There are 3 and we don’t know which one SIL JM went to.
• Cyan markers show the CVS stores in the area. There are 4. (Rumor/hearsay SIL JM stopped at CVS Monday AM and bought soda and paper plates.)
• Blue markers show bodies of water. There are many and not all are marked.
• Green markers show forests/parks/recreational areas. There are many and not all are marked.

This is my first time trying this so I hope it works ok. Feedback is welcome.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?oe=U...13,-117.773437&spn=4.949463,13.348389&t=h&z=7

 

[Cubby]

Thanks cloudajo. The map is excellent! Gives us an excellent idea of possible places to search and what area's too keep in mind if we see info on remains found.


I was thinking about a map with a circle for an area but I suppose that might be too big of an area to map? I'm not good with doing the online maps so this is great! Did you ever see the ping map for John Spira's case? Just as an example of what I was thinking... it may or may not be possible. brb to link the map from John Spira's missing page.

eta: here is the link. Scroll down a little bit to see the map.
http://www.johnspira.com/

 

[cloudajo]

BBM

This is another example of the ever changing timeline. Later it changes to SIL going to Home Depot around 2:30.

I wonder if PPD checked surveillance video at Home Depot. If so, did that cause the change from "45 minutes to an hour" to a quick "in and out" at the Home Depot.

Yes. Maybe he first said he was there longer and then when they checked the video, were able to confirm that he was there for only a short time (say 10 min).

From LA Times Article (note article was updated in Jan 2010, but was first published on Thurs July 30, 2009 with the below):

Police are checking telephone records, possible credit card charges and other evidence that might provide clues to where he went, Loomis said. We're going to look into bank activity, identify bank accounts and get phone records," the detective said.

Police will also determine whether any of his movements, as outlined by witnesses in the days before he disappeared, can be confirmed by surveillance tape.

For instance, she said, Harrod's son-in-law told police that he went to a Home Depot on Monday, and when he returned, Harrod was gone. Surveillance tape at the Home Depot might corroborate that account, or show something different, such as that Harrod was at the business with the son- in-law, she said.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/l...r-Marrying-Childhood-Sweetheart-52086697.html

 

[cloudajo]

Thanks cloudajo. The map is excellent! Gives us an excellent idea of possible places to search and what area's too keep in mind if we see info on remains found.


I was thinking about a map with a circle for an area but I suppose that might be too big of an area to map? I'm not good with doing the online maps so this is great! Did you ever see the ping map for John Spira's case? Just as an example of what I was thinking... it may or may not be possible. brb to link the map from John Spira's missing page.

eta: here is the link. Scroll down a little bit to see the map.
http://www.johnspira.com/

YW. I was going to try and put a circle around the range, but I only saw shapes to draw a line or free form, not a circle. I know I can do it if I saved it as a pic and then drew a circle, but not sure if it's possible within the google map tool??? Let me look into it more.