CA - Elliot Rodger kills 6, injures 13 in Isla Vista, Near UC Santa Barbara, #1

[Quester]

I sure hope someone has gotten in touch with each of those named in ER"s manifesto so they can take whatever appropriate action possible to attempt to preserve their privacy. JMO

 

[BigCat]

Do not blame his parents. Imagine having a normal life up to the point that ER became a problem - age 8. Now suddenly you're thrown into another world. You send him to therapy, coddle him, discipline him & hope he'll either grow out of it or benefit from therapy. What more is one to do?

His mother did everything in her power to socialize him - arranging play dates, vacations, parties - but nothing worked. He refused to be socialized because of his jealousy in every situation.

He couldn't even go to city college & sit in class because he became jealous & infuriated with his classmates. Every single class he took he dropped.

He details every social situation with his family in his manifesto - the parents tried, but he was unreachable - an extreme case of being stuck in jealousy & hatred - frozen with self-hatred.

BBM

Divorce is the new normal, I guess. smh.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Do not blame his parents. Imagine having a normal life up to the point that ER became a problem - age 8. Now suddenly you're thrown into another world. You send him to therapy, coddle him, discipline him & hope he'll either grow out of it or benefit from therapy. What more is one to do?
His mother did everything in her power to socialize him - arranging play dates, vacations, parties - but nothing worked. He refused to be socialized because of his jealousy in every situation.

He couldn't even go to city college & sit in class because he became jealous & infuriated with his classmates. Every single class he took he dropped.

He details every social situation with his family in his manifesto - the parents tried, but he was unreachable - an extreme case of being stuck in jealousy & hatred - frozen with self-hatred.

I don't really care about "blame" but more about solutions and preventions of more of these types of killings from seriously deranged young adults. There needs to be a concerted plan of action for young children who exhibit profound mental illnesses.
Play dates isn't going to cut it. "Socializing" strategies aren't going to cut it.
Waiting for them to become adults so then it is no longer the parent's problem isn't going to cut it.
And obviously, our failed system of treatment for mentally ill adults isn't going to do it.

I feel the first step is identifying the problems at a very early age and a robust level of therapy including in some cases, medication. There may need to be reporting, follow-up, school intervention, etc etc.

Let's discuss solutions.

 

[prima.facie]

this topic is so confusing because there are so many elements to it. we may never have a concrete answer as to 'why' but the fact there were so many signs of danger (in every one of these cases) and nothing was done or could have been done is frightening.

while i sit here i know of 3 kids (off the top of my head) that are in one way or another in my life - either a part of my daughter's life at school or a neighbor - and they ALL exhibit frightening behaviors that we all see in ER (and others like him). textbook cases IMO. and they are all part of the regular public school system and as far as i know, none of them are getting help for their obvious (to me) issues. they are just the weird kids - in the eyes of everyone.

yet, what can be done if they have not done anything criminal or violent against another? we all have to sit and wait? that is what i feel like. it is a very scary position to be in!

i am pretty well educated on these behaviors due to my own experiences with people, research and of course websleuths however, most people out there are not. they see these kids as "weird" and know to just avoid them. and that is part of the problem. calling them weird and ignoring seems to add fuel to the flame in their minds. so what does one do? befriending them and bringing them into your life could be dangerous. avoiding them could be dangerous as rejection is a huge common denominator in these horrific events that happen.

you cant just tell the parents (and in one case grandmother) that hey, i think your kid has severe mental issues and you need to get them professional help STAT. you cant call LE because they are not going to act on a perceived threat that you see.


there are MANY MANY MANY more like ER (jodi arias, luca magnotta, etc etc) out there. and many of us encounter them on a daily basis. and there is literally nothing that can be done.

we sit. watch. and wait. all awhile hoping they are not "one of them".

 

[CARIIS]

When first came out used as you outlined. Recently they are using it with the Autistic spectrum sufferers. Both names are the same med!


http://www.autismspeaks.org/news/ne...isperdal-treatment-symptoms-associated-autism

The drug he mentions Dr Sophy rec'd in the writings was Risperidone, it is used for hearing voices...and also for bi-polar, that is why I take it. I have thoughts that I'm not good enough, not doing enough, I feel inferior...it has taken all those thoughts away.



http://www.patient.co.uk/medicine/risperidone

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Here you go:

The double front door is heavy wood, with glass etchings of the sorority’s shield and an electronic keypad to get in. Several women heard Rodger’s “aggressive knocking,” Santa Barbara County Sheriff Bill Brown said. “Fortunately, no one opened.”
​

Thanks, Quester! :tyou:

 

[Dmacky]

I, too, would be very curious to hear/read about the perspectives from those named in the manifesto...

:waitasec:

Here is one ~

Minutes before opening fire the former community college student emailed his plans to some 30 people including his mother, father and former teachers, said Cathleen Bloeser, whose son was a childhood friend of Rodger and received a copy.

Rodger stated his intention to kill his housemates, lure others to his home to continue the mayhem, then slaughter women in a sorority and bring his spree to the streets of Isla Vista.



The manifesto, which details Rodger's fear that his guns might have been discovered when police visited him less than a month ago, was not the first indication of a troubled mind.

"We could see that he was turning," Bloeser said, adding that Rodger talked to her 22-year-old son and another friend about sexual crimes he wanted to commit against women. "He'd changed emotionally, and he'd become despondent and he wanted to get back at people."

Bloeser said Rodger had asked that Bloeser's son, Philip, and a mutual childhood friend to stay with him this weekend at his apartment in Isla Vista.

"I have a feeling that they would have been there as a part of it and shot as well," she said.


http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/...d-killer-not-mentally-prepared-to-kill-father

 

[PoeticJustice]

you cant just tell the parents (and in one case grandmother) that hey, i think your kid has severe mental issues and you need to get them professional help STAT. you cant call LE because they are not going to act on a perceived threat that you see.


there are MANY MANY MANY more like ER (jodi arias, luca magnotta, etc etc) out there. and many of us encounter them on a daily basis. and there is literally nothing that can be done.

we sit. watch. and wait. all awhile hoping they are not "one of them".

I'm thinking a letter with no return address and some printed screenshots of online activity may be a safe bet for letting someone's family know that they have a problem, in all seriousness.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

No worries! I was not paying any attn when i before e except after d but if near r or the sun is rising!

WHere to stick a comma boring!!

How to type boring Hard to believe now!) Just bad at it hate capitals commas peroids in terms of where they are on the keyboard, keys I was not paying attn to !

so you missing a quote compared to my spelling, punc, typing, grammer, your the money!
I can write, I just do it my way in my secret way.

Back then we had no computers, if noone could read your handwriting then noone knew spelling issues!

:seeya:

 

[prima.facie]

I don't really care about "blame" but more about solutions and preventions of more of these types of killings from seriously deranged young adults. There needs to be a concerted plan of action for young children who exhibit profound mental illnesses.
Play dates isn't going to cut it. "Socializing" strategies aren't going to cut it.
Waiting for them to become adults so then it is no longer the parent's problem isn't going to cut it.
And obviously, our failed system of treatment for mentally ill adults isn't going to do it.

I feel the first step is identifying the problems at a very early age and a robust level of therapy including in some cases, medication. There may need to be reporting, follow-up, school intervention, etc etc.

Let's discuss solutions.

while i agree with you.....living in a free country, how do we FORCE parents to not only recognize the signs but to act on them? many of this stuff is going on behind closed doors or in very small circles and people around these kids do not know the signs. and what if they feel they see the signs - then what? we cant force something to be done. it is walking on very very dangerous territory to force the hand of the mental health system.

and with that said....many people here who have read case after case and done tons of research and have personal experience - have differing opinions on what exactly was wrong with ER.

i have been sitting here for a couple of days figuring out - in a free country with laws and a constitution, how do we fix these kids who show signs at an early age when most people around said kid do not recognize the signs.

one of the hardest topics ever to figure out I feel.

 

[CARIIS]

IMO
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


Public needs education
Teachers need education (getting much better here) to help idnetify early
Parents need education
LE needs education
THe justice system needs education
The media needs education [modsnip]

Fiscal Year 2014 Grant Announcements - SAMHSA Beta

beta.samhsa.gov/grants/grant-announcements
May 15, 2014 - The FY 2014 enacted budget does not contain sufficient funding for ... of the Comprehensive Community Mental Health Services for Children ...


Correcting Misconceptions in Mental Health Policy ...

https://faculty.unlv.edu/.../mentalhealth...University of Nevada, Las Vegas ....They also were reluctant to pay for long-term, often custodial, hospital stays that were ... Some private insurers refused to cover mental illness treatment; others .

 

[Paladine]

I am so glad you have found a means to alleviate your pain...

:grouphug:

Thank you. While I was reading his writings, who knows what all is accurate, I must add, but I could feel the torment of a mind that leaves one no peace. Intrusive thoughts, negative, unreasonable thoughts at any real or imagined injustice. I also noticed 'worth' came up alot. Like he had to reach for outside things to show he had worth, from clothes to his car. I could relate till he hit the anger and rage in his later teens. That got really scary. But after a lifetime of intrusive thoughts, honestly, I don't know how he hung on so long. I read the whole thing...and if I didn't know how it ended, I would have imagined a teenaged suicide.

 

[Quester]

Here is one ~

...

Bloeser said Rodger had asked that Bloeser's son, Philip, and a mutual childhood friend to stay with him this weekend at his apartment in Isla Vista.

"I have a feeling that they would have been there as a part of it and shot as well," she said.


http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/...d-killer-not-mentally-prepared-to-kill-father

RSBM

:thud:

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Here is one ~

Minutes before opening fire the former community college student emailed his plans to some 30 people including his mother, father and former teachers, said Cathleen Bloeser, whose son was a childhood friend of Rodger and received a copy.

Rodger stated his intention to kill his housemates, lure others to his home to continue the mayhem, then slaughter women in a sorority and bring his spree to the streets of Isla Vista.



The manifesto, which details Rodger's fear that his guns might have been discovered when police visited him less than a month ago, was not the first indication of a troubled mind.

"We could see that he was turning," Bloeser said, adding that Rodger talked to her 22-year-old son and another friend about sexual crimes he wanted to commit against women. "He'd changed emotionally, and he'd become despondent and he wanted to get back at people."

Bloeser said Rodger had asked that Bloeser's son, Philip, and a mutual childhood friend to stay with him this weekend at his apartment in Isla Vista.

"I have a feeling that they would have been there as a part of it and shot as well," she said.


http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/...d-killer-not-mentally-prepared-to-kill-father

Thank you!

Oh my... Seems that ER invited the two young men to visit him in IV this past weekend...

Probably with the intent to kill them, too! :what:

so glad these two young men did not take ER up on the offer...lease:

 

[zwiebel]

His total lack of social skills saved a lot of young women's lives that night, I believe. He couldn't even knock on a sorority door without doing it aggressively, and making them all think it was someone they wouldn't want to open the door to.

The roommates he killed most viciously and personally, with a knife, he appeared to have no grudge against in his writings -he said he simply needed to have them dead to have the apartment to himself, to entice people in?? He didn't even mention the candle incident.

I feel like I am feeling my way through thick fog, trying to figure anything out about what made ER tick - what his thought processes were, or even understand his physical demeanour; his expressions. And his odd, archaic language. He spoke more like my English Grandfather than someone raised in the US.

If I hadn't known what he'd done when I viewed the video, I'm afraid I would have thought it was just some immature teen making a poor attempt at acting. I'd have thought it was a joke.

In total contrast.....I have just heard poor Christopher's dad on the radio again. Unbearable. I'd do anything if I could provide that grieving soul with a little bit of comfort at this moment.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

The roomies were not shot----they were stabbed. ER also used his car as a weapon.

Point being, in the wrong hands, many items become lethal.




Anyone want to chime in on what a parent can do when they see their child exhibiting odd behavior at say ages 5, 8, 13?

What is the ideal parental reaction?

I ask because I don't think we as a society can afford to throw our hands up and say there is nothing we can do.

 

[Archangel7]

When first came out used as you outlined. Recently they are using it with the Autistic spectrum sufferers. Both names are the same med!


http://www.autismspeaks.org/news/ne...isperdal-treatment-symptoms-associated-autism

It's prescribed here, in Ontario, to kids like koolaid. At least at the numerous transitional residential programs I know of. Surely not EVERY kid that has been to a shrink needs it.

I am actually surprised, given the widespread prescribing, it isn't sold in stores like Pez candy.

However, drugging is cheaper than parenting or quality therapy.

 

[BigCat]

I feel the R's have a good opportunity to raise awareness about the growing mental health problem in this country. I'll reserve my judgement for later but I very much hope they do not take the Hollywood Liberal stance and blame guns. My gut tells me though that considering they did at least attempt to get help for him, that they won't. I'm sorry but anyone who says this wasn't preventable is wrong. I believe it's neither nature or nurture but rather a mixture of both that can set someone on the path to destruction or a normal adult life. In this case I think ER was born with a predisposition for a fragile mental state and possible personality disorder and his life of affluence only exacerbated what he would grow to become.

My question is, when will we learn that no matter how much you want your children to have what you didn't, that they still need to learn the value of hard honest work and to value people as people and not tools? I'm in no way criticizing them, it really saddens me to hear how they jumped in the car and called the police knowing something deadly was about to happen...what a horrifying feeling. I just think that there seems to be a pattern amongst these young men committing these mass murders.

Young men with well-to-do families, growing up in upper middle class neighborhoods or extremely wealthy neighborhoods with above average intelligence are shooting people up because of their "oppression" and "pain" why?? It just baffles me. Even most gang members or thugs in the hood aren't murdering people in schools because of their childhood and we all know there are people out there who've had it FAR worse.


I don't know, it just amazes me.

If you're really interested in this subject, check out the work of the French writer Michel Houellebecq, in particular "The Extension of the Domain of the Struggle" (unfortunately titled "Whatever" in the US version). He writes about a sexually frustrated male who is overcome with a desire for murder and vengeance.

Below is the diagram that ER posted on his facebook page:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...eranged-plan-kill-women-not-sleeping-him.html

Here are Houellebecq's words, which, I believe, explain the diagram:

“It's a fact...that in societies like ours sex truly represents a second system of differentiation, completely independent of money; and as a system of differentiation it functions just as mercilessly. The effects of these two systems are, furthermore, strictly equivalent. Just like unrestrained economic liberalism, and for similar reasons, sexual liberalism produces phenomena of absolute pauperization . Some men make love every day; others five or six times in their life, or never. Some make love with dozens of women; others with none. It's what's known as 'the law of the market'...Economic liberalism is an extension of the domain of the struggle, its extension to all ages and all classes of society. Sexual liberalism is likewise an extension of the domain of the struggle, its extension to all ages and all classes of society.”

 

[Quester]

If I hadn't known what he'd done when I viewed the video, I'm afraid I would have thought it was just some immature teen making a poor attempt at acting. I'd have thought it was a joke.

RSBM for focus

Yes, it kind of appeared like a joke / play-acting / bizarre to me too.

BUT ... note that when, reportedly, ER's mom said she watched the video immediately after viewing the manifesto, she knew it wasn't a joke, she knew her boy was serious, she knew!

And, the dad knew when he was informed by mom!

And, the therapist, who alerted mom to the manifesto, knew!

All JMO

 

[Paladine]

Brad Garrett, a criminal profiler and former FBI negotiator, said Rodger’s videos and manifesto suggest he was thinking about the attack for a number of years.

"His anger and rage, disappointment and humiliation, have been escalating and by the time he reached his early 20s he basically couldn't take it anymore," Garrett told CTV's Canada AM on Monday.

Garrett, who is not involved in the police investigation in Isla Vista, noted that Rodger expressed resentment at multiple groups of people, including women, other men, and even his family.

"As his world became narrower and narrower and he eliminated people -- girls, boys, roommates, even possibly his family -- that if they would only change and take care of him and show attention to him, then things would change," he said.

"But of course when you develop that sort of reality around you it's only going to get worse. And of course it did."

Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/who-is-california-rampage-suspect-elliot-rodger-1.1838182#ixzz32qHuSLdr