CA CA - John Beck, 73, Alameda, 9 Feb 2016 #2

[Lilibet]

I agree there might be a connection, but I really feel John left by hîs own doing. Just the circumstances alone I think don't show abduction or murder.

I agree. I don't think there is evidence of abduction or murder based on what we know. I think hiding is more likely...or suicide. But hiding makes more sense to me at the moment.

 

[neesaki]

Perusing thread #1, I ran across an interesting post by Schmae to chew on, wondering if John had any enemies in the case who would want him out of the way.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Alameda-9-Feb-2016-1&p=12396760#post12396760

The FTC case by that time was pretty much a done deal, so I sort of dismissed that idea. But there was a bankruptcy case going on with Douglas Gravink regarding hiding $300,000 in a Swiss account. A bank, an insurance company, his wife and "10 does" were part of this case with Gravink. I posted about it shortly after Schmae's post, but didn't make a sinister connection to John's disappearance for some reason.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Alameda-9-Feb-2016-1&p=12398194#post12398194

https://www.unitedstatescourts.org/federal/cacb/1733313/1-0.html

I can't open these court files about the Gravink case linked below without a Pacer account, but in the description for 1/12/16 it says that an "answer" was due 2/11/16...two days after John disappeared. There was also a summons issued 2/9/16, the day he disappeared. It would be interesting to be able to read these documents. It seems that there may have been a judgment 7/6/17...finally.

https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/10485097/Zamora,_Chapter_7_Trustee_v_Gravink_et_al

This all made me wonder if John was involved in the "answer" from Gravink that was due on 2/11/16. He was said to have researched offshore investing much earlier, so he had knowledge of how to stash money. Did he have knowledge of what Gravink had done? Would John want to avoid revealing what he knew...or did Gravink not want him to reveal something? Was he helping the trustee Zamora? Or was the timing of this case and John's disappearance a random coincidence? :thinking:

It's worth reviewing the several pages past Schmae's post. John did some shady manipulation of his own finances before declaring chapter 11 bankruptcy, so one could wonder if he helped Gravink hide money and needed to be silenced or hide.

No opinion. Just questions.

Well, this is very interesting indeed, IMO. When I'm not so exhausted I'm going to find the time to read up on it. Thank you Lillibet, this is quite intriguing, IMO .

 

[GigTu]

All 3 men are snakes, liars and thieves. None of them have displayed having scruples or conscience, and each is out for themselves. Murder doesn't seem that far-fetched for any of them. However, an old man out for a casual stroll along the banks of a lookout, carrying a file of documents likely needed for that days court appearance, which he cowardly skipped and then disappeared, smells a lot more like a man running from the law than it does a man running from another man. jmo

 

[neesaki]

I don't recall, were any off shore accounts ever discovered of JB's ? Maybe once he learned Gravinks had been discovered he feared the writing was on the wall, that his would be next. I wonder if his were deposited under another identity and he did a more thorough job of covering his trail. So he disappears, goes away and lives under another name keeps his money.

 

[neesaki]

I had to refresh my memory, well at least here it states the assets he stood to lose were the two properties. However that may just be all that's reported. Do you remember, Lillibet? TIA

http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Reputed-victims-of-John-Beck-speak-out-6847874.php

Beck filed for bankruptcy in 2012 after the FTC won the judgment, and he stood to lose the only two assets listed in his bankruptcy filings: two properties in Alameda, his home on Regent Street and an investment home on Oleander Avenue.

 

[neesaki]

Still refreshing my memory, lol.

https://alamedasun.com/news/john-beck-still-missing-his-case-unfolds

Before filing bankruptcy, Beck liquidated a number of vacant lots he owned, reaping $660,000. Beck owned 41 more vacant lots that are “worth little or nothing,” according to Matthews’ motion. Winegarner wrote that just before filing for Chapter 11, Beck “sold a property to his daughter for $300,000, paid $10,000 on his mortgage, paid $30,000 to his attorneys and added to his $1.3 million pension before filing for Chapter 11.”

 

[Lilibet]

I don't recall, were any off shore accounts ever discovered of JB's ? Maybe once he learned Gravinks had been discovered he feared the writing was on the wall, that his would be next. I wonder if his were deposited under another identity and he did a more thorough job of covering his trail. So he disappears, goes away and lives under another name keeps his money.

AFAIK no offshore accounts were discovered. We've only been told by a financial writer that JB had researched them long before the FTC came around. I think it was even before becoming involved with Gravink and Hewitt. Without looking up the article I recall that JB decided not to use offshore accounts...at that time. Gravink moved his money as soon as he became aware of the FTC investigation in 2008, I believe. JB waited to maneuver his own money until just before filing chapter 11 bankruptcy and got smacked down for doing it and was moved to chapter 7. So it may have been too late to park money offshore if he had any, unless he had done it much earlier. Doing it under a different name might be possible.

It's just so puzzling that he was almost at the end of dealing with the bankruptcy when he disappeared. Things were almost settled after a very long legal haul. Yes, their lives would change, but he had a supportive family. The possibility of losing the appeal would mean losing a lot, but he wasn't going from living high to the pits. His house in Alameda isn't a mansion. There are much nicer homes in much nicer neighborhoods. I grew up there so I know where the Alameda "gold coast" is and Regent Street isn't anywhere close. He probably couldn't afford to live in Alameda anymore, but so what? I don't know, it just boggles my mind that he would either disappear and hide out or commit suicide over all this, leaving his wife to grieve and pick up the pieces...unless there is something going on we (and his family) don't know about. It's such a mystery that I keep looking for reasons in weird places.

 

[Lilibet]

How do you accrue $500 million in debt!

One month later, in September 2012, Beck filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. When he filed, Beck listed some $500 million in debt with assets totaling between $1 million and $10 million.

https://alamedasun.com/news/john-beck-still-missing-his-case-unfolds

 

[neesaki]

How do you accrue $500 million in debt!

One month later, in September 2012, Beck filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. When he filed, Beck listed some $500 million in debt with assets totaling between $1 million and $10 million.

https://alamedasun.com/news/john-beck-still-missing-his-case-unfolds

I know, right?!

BTW, do we know he didn't have offshore accounts, would he readily disclose that information to anyone? I had forgotten about the financial writer, but is that the sort of thing he could really know? I can tell I need to read back. :sigh:

 

[Lilibet]

I know, right?!

BTW, do we know he didn't have offshore accounts, would he readily disclose that information to anyone? I had forgotten about the financial writer, but is that the sort of thing he could really know? I can tell I need to read back. :sigh:

No, we don't know that he didn't have offshore accounts. Gravink hid his money transfer from the bankruptcy trustee until he had to turn over 90+ boxes of financial files. That's when it was found. So I would expect Beck to hide the information too if he had money squirreled away.

Here's the article that talks about Beck's knowledge of the subject. The writer had known Beck since 1977, and respected him until he started telemarketing in 2005. I think he makes a good case for knowing that Beck had the knowledge. But since it's a blog, it's considered rumor...one person's opinion.

https://johntreed.com/blogs/john-t-.../91232451-the-disappearance-of-john-n-beck-ii

 

[chinacat67]

How do you accrue $500 million in debt!

One month later, in September 2012, Beck filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. When he filed, Beck listed some $500 million in debt with assets totaling between $1 million and $10 million.

https://alamedasun.com/news/john-beck-still-missing-his-case-unfolds

I would suspect that the vast majority is the FTC judgement?

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[Legally Bland]

I've tried to keep up with this thread when I see new posts, but I know I've missed loads, so apologies if this has already been mentioned.

Not sure why I never thought of looking here before, but...

There is a John Beck Family Trust registered in Jersey, the Channel Islands, via the Royal Bank of Canada according to offshore leaks.

It quite probably isn't the same John Beck, but I'll get in touch with the website tomorrow to flag it up as something possibly of interest for them to investigate.

 

[1&2&3]

I think there's a good chance you're right. I'm curious about him being assumed to be dead so quickly though. I thought it took years. But maybe they found evidence we didn't hear about. Or maybe they are making that assumption in order to give her something to live on. I'm not sure about social security. I imagine she has her own. If his is more, I believe she can apply to get more based on his, even if he's alive.

I don't think his wife would have to forfeit most of the retirement if it had been hers, so I'm sure it was John's. I don't know if the house is paid for though. And they did some major work on it in the past 8-10 years (I've misplaced the link) and could have refinanced the mortgage to do it. Plus she owes four years of property taxes, at least $10,000. I think she will do OK if she sells the house and downsizes. I don't expect the attorneys will ever be paid.

If there was a plan, including suicide, I doubt anyone knew.

I am sorry if I misled anyone. To my knowledge, nothing has been said about his possible death. I was just thinking of the future, down the road. Each state may have their own laws, so I was using seven years as a guideline.

If he is not heard from in seven years, for example, will he be considered dead and his life insurance policy pay out to the beneficiaries?

 

[1&2&3]

There is a big difference in his listing of debt from $1 million to $10 million and then the court or FTC comes up with $500 million!

 

[1&2&3]

Just had a thought. Perhaps the file of papers he was carrying was documents needed to retrieve his stored money and papers to begin his life with a new identification.

I know - this is a crazy thought! Or, did we see in one picture of him being empty handed, like perhaps he threw the file away? It's been too long to keep it all straight.

 

[Lilibet]

I would suspect that the vast majority is the FTC judgement?

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

:doh: I didn't think of that! Even though Beck's share was $113 million, the total amount of almost $500 million applied "jointly and severally" to all the ones named by the FTC in this case.

 

[Lilibet]

I've tried to keep up with this thread when I see new posts, but I know I've missed loads, so apologies if this has already been mentioned.

Not sure why I never thought of looking here before, but...

There is a John Beck Family Trust registered in Jersey, the Channel Islands, via the Royal Bank of Canada according to offshore leaks.

It quite probably isn't the same John Beck, but I'll get in touch with the website tomorrow to flag it up as something possibly of interest for them to investigate.

Very interesting. I doubt it's the same John Beck, but it's worth looking into IMO.

 

[Lilibet]

I am sorry if I misled anyone. To my knowledge, nothing has been said about his possible death. I was just thinking of the future, down the road. Each state may have their own laws, so I was using seven years as a guideline.

If he is not heard from in seven years, for example, will he be considered dead and his life insurance policy pay out to the beneficiaries?

The article that talks about the settlement with his wife says that he is presumed dead, so you didn't mislead anyone. I'm not sure there is life insurance or if it would pay to the beneficiaries or not.

"...a California federal judge on Tuesday allowed the deal to proceed because the husband is presumed dead."

https://www.law360.com/articles/939031/missing-alleged-fraudster-s-wife-on-hook-for-1-75m

 

[Lilibet]

There is a big difference in his listing of debt from $1 million to $10 million and then the court or FTC comes up with $500 million!

He listed his assets at $1 million to $10 million, I think you mean. If the $500 million debt includes the FTC judgment of $400 ++ million, I think it's interesting that he included the whole amount. Part of his appeal was to not be connected to the entire judgement, but just the $113 million the FTC slapped him with. But I guess in the bankruptcy it was to his advantage to claim the whole thing as his debt.

 

[Lilibet]

Just had a thought. Perhaps the file of papers he was carrying was documents needed to retrieve his stored money and papers to begin his life with a new identification.

I know - this is a crazy thought! Or, did we see in one picture of him being empty handed, like perhaps he threw the file away? It's been too long to keep it all straight.

That's definitely crossed our minds! The picture at Lands End showed him still carrying the file. If he threw it away it was later, and it's never been found.