CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #5

[rahod1]

Because they didn't know..... If they were intimidated at the thought of going back up HC, they might have remembered that there was another trailhead at their truck. So, they imagined they could get there a different way than the way they came down, namely HC. But they didn't have information, reliable map, any of that....
In other words, they were winging it once they decided not to return by the HC trail that they'd come down.

Yes, I was simply stating if that you accept the notion of the post I was responding to >>> Inferring that they checked out SL at the start and nixed it<<<<, then why would they venture to take SL back UP vs simply turning around back up HC Trail? The ONLY scenarios I can envision that would be compatible with taking SL>>>>1) What you have stated in BOLD print here or 2) They planned to take the entire loop starting at HC and persevered, heat and steep return not withstanding.

 

[5W's]

Its difficult for me to consider the obvious HS as CoD. I know LE will have to make a decision after all the reports are in after testing to inform the family and the public. If the results are inconclusive then we have no choice but to accept the obvious. I find that very sad. LE is working with what they have so that is fine. LE can't produce an answer without solid evidence, but I fear that (not bashing LE in any way here they can't produce something out of nothing so to speak) the bodies being out in the elements for 72 hours after that fateful Sunday may have caused issues for the results of those all important tests. And the lapse of time isn't due to LE in anyway because they have to follow procedures and conduct their investigation in a safe manner. Very sad.

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

Yes, I was simply stating if that you accept the notion of the post I was responding to >>> Inferring that they checked out SL at the start and nixed it<<<<, then why would they venture to take SL back UP vs simply turning around back up HC Trail? The ONLY scenarios I can envision that would be compatible with taking SL>>>>1) What you have stated in BOLD print here or 2) They planned to take the entire loop starting at HC and persevered, heat and steep return not withstanding.

Yes, JG seems to have been a very successful guy in his work, which requires planning and the ability to get things done. He may not have been the kind of guy that quits. That's an admirable work ethic, but out in nature, sticking to a plan no matter what is not a good idea.

 

[5W's]

I go back to thinking about that fateful day and think why would JG/EC who are experienced hikers (from what has been described of them) and moved to Mariposa for their love of the outdoors, knowing temperatures of that immediate area at this time of year do this hike. I cannot think of any reason. Sure to do a test of the new baby carrier that EC was showing on Instagram (perhaps to get opinions on its design and utility) but a short test being back at their vehicle by 8:30 or the latest 9:00 or even before 8:30. So that both parents could try it out with the baby in it. That's sort of a real world test (so to speak) MOO! I can't remember now how long the family was living in Mariposa but they have made friends with other locals who've lived longer in the area and know the area well. These friends would have warned them about precarious conditions, as I said we understand that they are experienced hikers so they would have known what these conditions would be like on their fur baby. They would also know that Oski's paws would get burned in the high heat. Its unbelievable for me to consider JG/EC would not. Something is not right here. Another post on one of our 5 threads talked about the AllTrails app. that JG had looked at the day before. Looking at AllTrails could've simply been used to see how far the SL trail and HC were from their AirB&B's for enhancement of their rentals in advertising them.

 

[5W's]

I know I'm going back to the drone thing I suggested in another post. But an operator can speak thru the drone to in this case command the family what to do. Drones apparently have a range of mobility so someone could be unseen and hiding somewhere or even not that far. Could threaten with an improvised feature such as a gun attached or aresol spray of some sort something to incapacitate. MOO! Maybe they were commanded to do the trail. I don't know if this machine (drone) would have the technology to block cell phones, perhaps. JG would have had latest phone technology due to his profession. But, I'm sure the heat from his body and the phone being in his pocket and just the high temperature would have rendered the phone inoperable so they couldn't call out even if they had the latest technology on the phone. MOO. Maybe the drone left and that's how they were found by SAR/LE where they were. EC may have tried to go back to the vehicle desperately but collapsed trying. So sad. As they were found in this position not just the terrifying possible scenario that came to my mind.

 

[Yvettea]

I know I'm going back to the drone thing I suggested in another post. But an operator can speak thru the drone to in this case command the family what to do. Drones apparently have a range of mobility so someone could be unseen and hiding somewhere or even not that far. Could threaten with an improvised feature such as a gun attached or aresol spray of some sort something to incapacitate. MOO! Maybe they were commanded to do the trail. I don't know if this machine (drone) would have the technology to block cell phones, perhaps. JG would have had latest phone technology due to his profession. But, I'm sure the heat from his body and the phone being in his pocket and just the high temperature would have rendered the phone inoperable so they couldn't call out even if they had the latest technology on the phone. MOO. Maybe the drone left and that's how they were found by SAR/LE where they were. EC may have tried to go back to the vehicle desperately but collapsed trying. So sad. As they were found in this position not just the terrifying possible scenario that came to my mind.

Do you know, does heat affect a drone’s function? I suppose just the threat of violence could be used to control.

 

[MissUnderstood]

I can’t understand why they were found so close together. I feel like that means they all died around the same time. I don’t think heat exhaustion would affect them all the same. I think it has to be either ingesting or being exposed to something almost simultaneously. I still can’t decide if that something was intentional or accidental.
Moo

 

[WillieMac]

Hey @5W's! I'm guessing that you're doing as well as - or likely better than - I am tonight. Glad to see you back here and posting more again though. I was going to welcome you to WS the other night when I noticed one of your first posts but then it seemed like another post may have gotten mixed up between a couple of different accounts so I thought I'd wait and see how things worked out for you. So...regardless if all that, a big belated *Welcome to WS* greeting from me! Glad you're sticking it out. Also, I've had a couple tonight as well so I understand where you're coming from. So while I may not agree with some of the scenarios that you're presenting here, I do indeed enjoy reading the various options presented by you and others here that may have a different perspective than I have. I look forward to hearing more of your thoughts. As someone that's been flying drones of various sorts for a while, I will say that your not wrong about their capabilities (but I kind of feel like you know that) - but also that the drone scenarios you're describing would have a pretty (*very*?) low probably associated with them. (Coming strictly from my **very** inexperienced amateur opinion of course.)

 

[RickshawFan]

Yes, I was simply stating if that you accept the notion of the post I was responding to >>> Inferring that they checked out SL at the start and nixed it<<<<, then why would they venture to take SL back UP vs simply turning around back up HC Trail? The ONLY scenarios I can envision that would be compatible with taking SL>>>>1) What you have stated in BOLD print here or 2) They planned to take the entire loop starting at HC and persevered, heat and steep return not withstanding.

I don’t believe they set out with a plan to hike the loop or had any knowledge of the S-L trail before they set out. IMO They extrapolated it. They came across it when they were going up the river looking for a way out of the canyon. It presented itself to them.

They went down the HC trail and had planned to go back up. But when they got to the bottom, for whatever reason, they decided against. Perhaps they were worried about heat, exposure and altitude gain. Whatever, they decided to wing it, and chose to go upriver.

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

I don’t believe they set out with a plan to hike the loop or had any knowledge of the S-L trail before they set out. IMO They extrapolated it. They came across it when they were going up the river looking for a way out of the canyon. It presented itself to them.

They went down the HC trail and had planned to go back up. But when they got to the bottom, for whatever reason, they decided against. Perhaps they were worried about heat, exposure and altitude gain. Whatever, they decided to wing it, and chose to go upriver.

They knew a way out of the canyon- back the way they came. If you came down 2000' you're going to have to go back up at least 2000', there's no altitude shortcut. As it leaves the river, the SLT is going south, then turns west to go up the switchbacks. I conclude they planned to take the SLT, and did. They knew it went back to their truck, else they would have turned around. Who would continue into that hellscape not knowing where that trail was going? MOO

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

I know I'm going back to the drone thing I suggested in another post. But an operator can speak thru the drone to in this case command the family what to do. Drones apparently have a range of mobility so someone could be unseen and hiding somewhere or even not that far. Could threaten with an improvised feature such as a gun attached or aresol spray of some sort something to incapacitate. MOO! Maybe they were commanded to do the trail. I don't know if this machine (drone) would have the technology to block cell phones, perhaps. JG would have had latest phone technology due to his profession. But, I'm sure the heat from his body and the phone being in his pocket and just the high temperature would have rendered the phone inoperable so they couldn't call out even if they had the latest technology on the phone. MOO. Maybe the drone left and that's how they were found by SAR/LE where they were. EC may have tried to go back to the vehicle desperately but collapsed trying. So sad. As they were found in this position not just the terrifying possible scenario that came to my mind.

The drone pilot would fry in that heat. No, a biplane would make more sense, and that's a proven method. North by Northwest. MOO

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

I can’t understand why they were found so close together. I feel like that means they all died around the same time. I don’t think heat exhaustion would affect them all the same. I think it has to be either ingesting or being exposed to something almost simultaneously. I still can’t decide if that something was intentional or accidental.
Moo

They WERE exposed to something simultaneously. Extreme heat. They were found together because they were a family. When a family member can't go on, you don't just leave them. MOO, based on my family, yours may be different.

 

[WillieMac]

Do you know, does heat affect a drone’s function? I suppose just the threat of violence could be used to control.

Oh temperature does indeed affect a drone to some degree. How much would depend on what type of drone and what its flight characteristics would be to some degree, but also temp would have an effect on simple things like battery life as well. I'm not sure that how temperature would affect a drone would be so much of a factor in whether anyone should consider the idea of a drone being involved in a nefarious plan so much as the simple question of whether or not a weaponized drone might be involved in a nefarious plan to begin with though.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

In the scenario where they all stayed together to the point that both adults are almost overcome by heat, I think they would have tried to get help to themselves somehow, and there should be attempts to send messages on the cell phone. JMO.

 

[IceIce9]

I can’t understand why they were found so close together. I feel like that means they all died around the same time. I don’t think heat exhaustion would affect them all the same. I think it has to be either ingesting or being exposed to something almost simultaneously. I still can’t decide if that something was intentional or accidental.
Moo

If one of the adults became incapacitated by heat stroke, the other adult probably wouldn’t have wanted to leave them. The baby and dog had no choice as they were unable to leave and would have died too, in the same location. The baby couldn’t have crawled away and the dog was tethered.

Also, after heat exhaustion begins to set it it becomes difficult to make good decisions.

If one adult became incapacitated, it could have been the other adult didn’t choose to abandon them on the trail.

I have experienced heat exhaustion while hiking and it really affects your thinking and decision-making. If it had been me, I would have hoped that I would have been able to make the decision to set the dog free, as the best opportunity to get help.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Hey @5W's! I'm guessing that you're doing as well as - or likely better than - I am tonight. Glad to see you back here and posting more again though. I was going to welcome you to WS the other night when I noticed one of your first posts but then it seemed like another post may have gotten mixed up between a couple of different accounts so I thought I'd wait and see how things worked out for you. So...regardless if all that, a big belated *Welcome to WS* greeting from me! Glad you're sticking it out. Also, I've had a couple tonight as well so I understand where you're coming from. So while I may not agree with some of the scenarios that you're presenting here, I do indeed enjoy reading the various options presented by you and others here that may have a different perspective than I have. I look forward to hearing more of your thoughts. As someone that's been flying drones of various sorts for a while, I will say that your not wrong about their capabilities (but I kind of feel like you know that) - but also that the drone scenarios you're describing would have a pretty (*very*?) low probably associated with them. (Coming strictly from my **very** inexperienced amateur opinion of course.)

BBM
There seem to be the same flood of messages authored by the same person but using different accounts, as you pointed out.

The thread gets difficult to follow when it’s being spammed with posts that ignore the facts of the case.

My view only. I’m going to self-report this post.

 

[minazoe]

Is Dr Lee available?...he has a lot of experience with weird , crazy deaths. As he has dealt with atrocities and other very difficult cases. mOO

 

[IceIce9]

In the scenario where they all stayed together to the point that both adults are almost overcome by heat, I think they would have tried to get help to themselves somehow, and there should be attempts to send messages on the cell phone. JMO.

What if there is no cell service? Or their phones might not work if too hot.

I hiked in the desert overt the past weekend and had my cell phone so I could take photos. The phone became too hot and I wasn’t even able to use the camera. I wouldn’t have been able to text even if I had cell service.

 

[IceIce9]

In the scenario where they all stayed together to the point that both adults are almost overcome by heat, I think they would have tried to get help to themselves somehow, and there should be attempts to send messages on the cell phone. JMO.

Also, someone who has never experienced heat exhaustion might not understand how quickly it comes on, affects decision making and rapidly progresses to heatstroke.

You can go from feeling fine to becoming confused, disoriented, to hallucinating in a very short amount of time.

 

[mickey2942]

Rule of threes (survival) - Wikipedia

This "Rule of Three" is very interesting to me, it seems "logical". But I KNOW from personal experience, that there is NO way a person can survive in a high desert area for three days, without water. But maybe, if the family had been able to rig up a shelter for shade, until it cooled off, they would have been better off.

The problem is the quick step to being able to think with logic, in a crisis. Good information to tuck in your back pocket. In this case, the "logic" of getting to the car faster, actually made things worse.

What could have saved this family? Same exact circumstances?

I have only had 2 or 3 critical incidents in my life. Once, on a steep slope of shale. It didn't seem so bad at the beginning, going down. Then, the grade changed, and more shale started creating unstable footing. I sat down. Cried. Took off my pack, and left it there. That made the difference. Doesn't make sense to leave all of your equipment? In that moment of time, it was all I could think to do. I went back up. And came back a week later with a friend, and ropes to get my backpack.