CA - Kobe Bryant, 41, daughter GiGi, 13, & 7 others die in helicopter crash, Calabasas, 26 Jan 2020

[rosemadderlake]

What a lovely post, Rose.

Thank you, sweetie, thank you La Louve.

It gives me hope and peace to post my thoughts and to hear others.

 

[Only4Justice]

I live in L. A. and it's like the whole city is in mourning. People are wearing Kobe jerseys and some are in full uniforms. Murals are being painted. Even the MTA transit buses have "RIP Kobe" programmed into their electronic destination signs.

 

[La Louve]

The Staples Center is ready to honor Kobe Bryant at tonight's game - CNN

Posting from my phone, difficult to paste photos. What a lovely tribute.

ETA. Just read the article more closely and saw that tonight's game is with my hometown team, the Portland Trailblazers. There's been great rivalry over the years between the two teams. Whenever the Lakers play in Portland the games always sell out. Not just for the competition but people always want to see the Lakers up close and personal. There will not be a dry eye in the Staples Center tonight, guaranteed.

 

[BeachSky]

One thing I am curious about is the lack of a co-pilot despite the helicopter being relatively large by civilian standards.

Every commercial aircraft that I have flown on, including small turbo props, has had a co-pilot. I have never been on a chartered flight of any kind. This flight lacked a co-pilot.

Do you know anything about the rules for co-pilots. Are truly commercial flights required to have them regardless of size?

Likewise, are the co-pilot rules different for charter aircraft? Is this due to the fact that they are private charter (perhaps a greater assumed risk) and not truly commercial in the same sense of ticket sales?

​

I think this is a very good point.

My impression is that the general area has a lot of ranges of hills and that the particular area could be enclosed by hills if one deviated from the common flight paths.

Thus, it seems very possible that an alert from a warning system could lead to the pilot taking sudden action to avoid one hill- only to accidently fly into another one.

Your post BBM ....

Helicopter in Kobe Bryant Crash Wasn’t Legal to Fly in Poor Visibility

Other operators have cited the lower cost of flying with a single pilot.
But flying with one pilot is risky, said Doug Solbrekken, who flew the same Sikorsky for decades in mountainous British Columbia, Canada, and instructed pilots in terrain avoidance.
“This is a big, fast aircraft, almost like a jet,” he said in an interview. “If you get into poor conditions, the workload for one pilot can be too high.”
Under good conditions, he said, flying with one pilot is straightforward. But if a flight becomes complex because of shifting cloud layers and patchy communication with air traffic control, he said, as may have been the case on the flight carrying Mr. Bryant and the others, small mistakes can compound into catastrophe.
“With another pilot there, you have help. That’s what this helicopter was designed for,” he said. “I can’t tell you how many times I’ve flown as the second pilot and had to help correct something.”
The manufacturer said in a statement that the S-76 models can be flown by either one or two pilots, and operators choose “based on regulatory and other requirements specific to their operation.”
Another factor is cost, some pilots said. “The customers don’t want to pay more, so they just go with one,” said David Zara, a commercial jet pilot who has flown regularly as a passenger in Sikorsky S-76s. “Legally, it can be flown with one pilot. Technically, it’s a very bad idea.”

 

[Arnie M]

That was a very interesting read, thank you! Are you assuming the final left turn was a mistake of direction due to flying an unfamiliar route? Curious why he felt comfortable to continue and/or decide to go in that direction if he wasn't sure where he was exactly ... I'm asking you because you sound pretty well informed on the subject! Thanks for your input.

Speculation only ...... just a guess ..... we know the pilot was following highway 101 ..... there were low clouds overhead ... nothing new there .... he had been flying under the clouds for some time and was using the ground as reference ..... however the 101 hwy began to go uphill which of course narrows the gap between the ground and the clouds ...... pilot would have known it was a steep valley with tall mountains on each side .... most likely was prepared to turn around if the cloud descended to the ground ahead of him (ps: a cloud at ground level is fog) ...... however his last communication was he was doing a rapid climbout to get "above" a cloud layer (sounds like a "new" cloud layer different than the one he had been flying under until then.)

We know radar showed the helicopter did significantly increase altitude ..... up to 2300 feet .... at this point the helicopter was most likely totally enveloped in cloud/fog .... the pilot most likely tried to "pop out" on top of the whole cloud layer ..... and yes , at that point the pilot would have known he was in a "dangerous situation"

Now here is the thing , he was now flying "blind" but even though he was not flying using full instruments .... he was indeed experienced in instrument flight and would have watched his basic instruments such as speed , altitude , heading etc trying to keep it reasonably level while climbing thru the cloud .... it can be done ..... however it is very easy to become disoriented ..... he may not have realized he was turning left and actually descending

Trivia: .... helicopters such as the S-76 can fly fully IFR (Instrument Flight Rules) ..... the pilot was qualified to do so but it is not something he could "switch to" while enroute ...... IFR flight normally begins before takeoff , there are gyros to set , references to set , and Air traffic control towers pretty much tell you everything to do ..... simply because the airspace would be full of IFR passenger planes wanting to land - takeoff etc ..... thus the tremendous advantage of using a helicopter flying under the clouds and using ground references .... much faster and more convenient .

True instrument flight "can mess with your head" (for lack of a better term) ..... trained pilots are taught to absolutely trust the instruments .... because very often the pilot "feels" like he is moving in one direction yet the instruments show otherwise ..... even the best pilots can struggle with it ..... thus most IFR flights like to use two pilots.

Anyone who has ever driven a car into a fog bank or a whiteout in a snow storm knows the feeling. Every few weeks there are reports of numerous cars driving into fog and causing a major pile-up ..... we hardly pay attention any more .... but when a pilot does it with famous passengers it brings a lot more scrutiny. Sorry for the long ramble but the best guess is the pilot either became disoriented or had decided to turn back toward clear air without realizing the hills were there .... from what I understand they were in an area known as "The High Hills"

It will be many months before the NTSB report is published .... I expect it will be CFIT (Controlled Flight Into Terrain) .... pilot disorientation .... or something similar.

 

[BeachSky]

All 9 Victims of Kobe Bryant Helicopter Crash Died From Impact

All nine victims succumbed to “blunt trauma,” Los Angeles County Department of Medical Examiner records show. The deaths were additionally ruled to be accidental.

The wreckage of the Sikorsky burned for about an hour as magnesium aircraft parts ignited in intense and stubborn flames.

 

[La Louve]

The Staples Center is ready to honor Kobe Bryant at tonight's game - CNN

Posting from my phone, difficult to paste photos. What a lovely tribute.

ETA. Just read the article more closely and saw that tonight's game is with my hometown team, the Portland Trailblazers. There's been great rivalry over the years between the two teams. Whenever the Lakers play in Portland the games always sell out. Not just for the competition but people always want to see the Lakers up close and personal. There will not be a dry eye in the Staples Center tonight, guaranteed.

From the link:

Two seats at Staples Center were adorned with the jerseys of Gianna and Kobe Bryant.
Other photos of the Staples Center showed the 20,000 seats draped with a yellow T-shirt with either a purple and white No. 8 or No. 24. Bryant wore both numbers playing for the team and the Lakers retired both at the end of his career.

 

[La Louve]

I don't normally watch basketball on tv, preferring it live. But tonight I am watching. It's on one of the ESPN channels for those in the US. A friend of mine is watching it on the NBC Sports app.

Usher is opening the tribute, singing Amazing Grace.

Cellist Ben Hong playing Hallelujah, while video clips of Kobe talking about the game (some clips from his Oscar winning film). Clips of him coaching Gianna's team. Talking about his wife and kids.

Names of all the crash victims appearing on the screens.

24.2 seconds moment of silence. Spotlight on the two seats with Kobe and Gianna's jerseys.

Crowd chanting "Kobe Kobe Kobe".

National Anthem performed by BoyzIIMen, wearing #24 and #8 Laker jerseys.

LeBron is in tears. He's getting ready to speak. He just threw out his notes and is speaking from the heart. "family is everything".

Tipoff. Lakers just took a 24 second violation. The Blazers are taking an 8 second violation.

 

[Jsizzle]

Idk if anyone is watching the Lakers right now but it’s almost like Kobe and Giannas “funeral”. It’s super sad. I can’t stop crying. I cant stop crying for the other families as well (who they mention many times). I just can’t stop crying at this terrible tragedy.

 

[Jsizzle]

And LeBron killed his speech. Heartbreaking seeing all those guys break down.

 

[JDough]

Fan selfie may be last photo of Kobe Bryant - CNN

It turned out to be pretty blurry. "Kobe said, 'We'll get a better pic tomorrow' "

 

[zecats]

Idk if anyone is watching the Lakers right now but it’s almost like Kobe and Giannas “funeral”. It’s super sad. I can’t stop crying. I cant stop crying for the other families as well (who they mention many times). I just can’t stop crying at this terrible tragedy.

It was similar to what I watched in Philadelphia Tuesday night at the Sixers game, with so many special tributes. Kobe was born in Philly and played high school ball for Lower Merion School District, wearing number 33. His #33 jersey was lit up center court. Mike Phillips played the National Anthem on his saxophone and held a high note for 33 seconds. There was a 33 second moment of complete silence. Nine beams of light and nine rings of the small liberty bell as the victims names were on the Jumbotron. And the intro to Kobe's last game played in Philly (Dec 1, 2015) was replayed. It was extremely moving and sad, as I'm sure LA and the Lakers and fans are feeling tonight. Philadelphia grieves with you.

RIP to Kobe and Gigi and the 7 men, women and children who also perished that morning.

 

[Seattle1]

One thing I am curious about is the lack of a co-pilot despite the helicopter being relatively large by civilian standards.

Every commercial aircraft that I have flown on, including small turbo props, has had a co-pilot. I have never been on a chartered flight of any kind. This flight lacked a co-pilot.

Do you know anything about the rules for co-pilots. Are truly commercial flights required to have them regardless of size?

Likewise, are the co-pilot rules different for charter aircraft? Is this due to the fact that they are private charter (perhaps a greater assumed risk) and not truly commercial in the same sense of ticket sales?

​

I think this is a very good point.

My impression is that the general area has a lot of ranges of hills and that the particular area could be enclosed by hills if one deviated from the common flight paths.

Thus, it seems very possible that an alert from a warning system could lead to the pilot taking sudden action to avoid one hill- only to accidently fly into another one.

Your post BBM ....

Helicopter in Kobe Bryant Crash Wasn’t Legal to Fly in Poor Visibility

Other operators have cited the lower cost of flying with a single pilot.
But flying with one pilot is risky, said Doug Solbrekken, who flew the same Sikorsky for decades in mountainous British Columbia, Canada, and instructed pilots in terrain avoidance.
“This is a big, fast aircraft, almost like a jet,” he said in an interview. “If you get into poor conditions, the workload for one pilot can be too high.”
Under good conditions, he said, flying with one pilot is straightforward. But if a flight becomes complex because of shifting cloud layers and patchy communication with air traffic control, he said, as may have been the case on the flight carrying Mr. Bryant and the others, small mistakes can compound into catastrophe.
“With another pilot there, you have help. That’s what this helicopter was designed for,” he said. “I can’t tell you how many times I’ve flown as the second pilot and had to help correct something.”
The manufacturer said in a statement that the S-76 models can be flown by either one or two pilots, and operators choose “based on regulatory and other requirements specific to their operation.”
Another factor is cost, some pilots said. “The customers don’t want to pay more, so they just go with one,” said David Zara, a commercial jet pilot who has flown regularly as a passenger in Sikorsky S-76s. “Legally, it can be flown with one pilot. Technically, it’s a very bad idea.”

I think that whenever there's a tragedy involving any mode of transportation-- whether a cruise ship, aircraft, bus, etc., it's expected that reporters will contact sources that they believe are experts that will assist when writing a story. But I want to be real -- there are not many reporters with the NY Times that are dedicated to reporting about S-76 helicopter crashes (including the one linked above).

That said, I think it's important to keep the discussion about one pilot versus two on the S-76 specific to Kobe's history and intended use of the helicopter within the Los Angeles metropolitan area (about a 100-road mile radius), as well as the actual flight plan on Sunday, Jan 26, 2020.

At 6'6", I think it's fair to say that KB was way above the average male height (5'10"). There are already many studies that cite why being tall is risky to your health-- even before considering the physical demands of a basketball athlete with a 6'6" frame.

Reportedly, KB has always lived in the Los Angeles metropolitan area -- having spent his entire NBA career with the LA Lakers. There are reports going back at least 10 years that speak to KB traveling by helicopter to both practices and games. While many probably think of this as Hollywood glitz or the life of the rich and famous, the reality is that a 2-hour commute (one-way) in a vehicle is not exactly conducive to a basketball player with fragile knees, sore back, and achy feet, not to mention KB's chronic agita.

Specific to the fatal trip last Sunday -- KB and his passengers were set to travel about 85 road miles (Santa Ana - Thousand Oaks) which according to google maps, ranges from 2.25 - 3 hours by car, depending on LA traffic. In comparison, the same trip by helicopter under typical, sunny conditions, flying VFR, following the highways, is probably about 30 minutes - take-off to landing.

Translating KB's intended use of the S-76 averaging 50-100 road miles (following the freeways via visual flight rules) over the past 10+ years, I don't imagine his average take-off to landing ever exceeded 60 minutes.

Not taking anything away from the experts linked above, -- generally speaking, nobody's going to argue that two pilots are not safer than one if two can be accommodated. However, specific to KB's use on Sunday, it's just not realistic that two pilots would ever be used to fly less than 100 road miles.

Fortunately, there was one charter pilot from the Los Angeles metropolitan area that was cited in the link and who also confirmed my point that it's rarely necessary to have a second pilot aboard an S-76 in the LA metropolitan area. It's simply not the area practice to employ two pilots for a 30-minute flight.

Mr. Deetz worked with Mr. Zobayan for years at Island Express, before leaving in 2017, and also regularly flew Mr. Bryant during his time there.
[..]
Island Express and nearly all other companies in the region fly the S-76B almost exclusively with a single pilot, according to operators there. Mr. Deetz said it was rarely necessary to have a second pilot; in fact, he said, two pilots sometimes get in each other’s way.

MOO

ETA: linked for convenience
Helicopter in Kobe Bryant Crash Wasn’t Legal to Fly in Poor Visibility

 

[Arnie M]

.

Thank you for the excellent post Seattle1

 

[Cryptic]

Thank you Arnie and Seattle1 for your very informative posts. The breadth of knowledge available on this forum always amazes me.

 

[Arnie M]

.
53 second security camera audio captures the sound of the helicopter approaching overhead .... then flies past and the audio starts to fade away ..... but if you listen closely toward the end you can hear the impact and helicopter sound ends

Not for the faint of heart

.

 

[Seattle1]

"MY BODY KNOWS ITS TIME TO SAY GOODBYE"


Kobe Bryant

✔@kobebryant

What?? This is beyond the realm of imagination. It means so much that the @TheAcademy deemed #DearBasketball worthy of contention. Thanks to the genius of @GlenKeanePrd & John Williams for taking my poem to this level. It's an honor to be on this team. #OscarNoms

5:40 AM - 23 Jan 2018

 

[Arnie M]

.
Simulated re-creation (without fog) approximately shows flight path of the helicopter ...... but more importantly it contains the conversations between the pilot and air traffic control ...... it may take a couple of times for you to tell who is pilot and who is traffic control . Pretty much aligns with my earlier post about following highway 118 and then request to go south to catch the 101 freeway .

.

 

[BeachSky]

FOX 11 employee shares experience of riding with helicopter pilot Ara Zobayan | FOX 11 Los Angeles
We’re getting an inside look at the helicopter that was carrying Kobe Bryant ....An employee at FOX 11 flew in the same Sikorsky S-76 just a couple of months ago with the very same pilot, Ara Zobayan.

 

[La Louve]

Vanessa Bryant to receive items from Kobe's Staples Center memorial

Bryant’s wife Vanessa has asked Staples Center’s operators if she and her family could keep the items left outside the arena in the week following the death of her husband, according to Broderick Turner of the Los Angeles Times.

Staples Center president Lee Zeidman told the Times that his organization intends to grant the request once his staff starts dismantling the makeshift memorial on Sunday after the Super Bowl:

“It will have been a week. We have contractually obligated events that are moving in,” he said. “Vanessa had reached out to us and said, ‘Our family would like the items out there.’ So we’re going to catalog every one of them. By that I mean, T-shirts, letters, basketballs, stuffed animals, toys. We’re going to put those in specially made containers and we’re going to ship them to the family.”

More at link.