Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #14

[ldlager]

I don’t think we know enough to say a M/S was intended to be staged. It seems to me at first glance the murders were pre-planned to appear as a double suicide and maybe Honey had an opportunity to defend herself from the killer however he didn’t deviate from the original plan for whatever reason. Maybe seeing both of them strung up in a hanging position representing guilt had become too deep a diabolical obsession for him to suddenly forego? The scene appears far too complicated for a staged M/S where typically in real tragedies such as that it’s far more obvious - the murder victim found in one location and the apparent resourceful murderer dead by suicide found in another.

There’s several reasons for killer to have skulked out the home during the real estate Open House including:
- To preview the property and understand the layout in preparation for the murders and staged deaths.
- To address why his DNA might’ve been later found in the home. Even if the killer didn’t sign and leave a phone number in the guest book or left false information, that’s very common. We all know this information is left only for the benefit of followup calls by realtors.

I do not believe any of the Sherman children were involved.

JMO

AFAIK there was never an open house held for the public. I seem to recall there was a realtor open house, as is common practice. And house tours for prospective buyers accompanied by realtors. It seems unlikely to me that the killer or killers registered with a realtor and took a tour of the house to scope it out. It would make it too easy for them to be traced.

Someone wanted them both dead. If not family, then who?

 

[MistyWaters]

AFAIK there was never an open house held for the public. I seem to recall there was a realtor open house, as is common practice. And house tours for prospective buyers accompanied by realtors. It seems unlikely to me that the killer or killers registered with a realtor and took a tour of the house to scope it out. It would make it too easy for them to be traced.

Someone wanted them both dead. If not family, then who?

There was an open house advertised on listing realtor ESG’s public twitter acct but it’s long been deleted so I’m unable to link it but iirc the date was near the end of November. IIRC the tweet mentioned nothing specific about viewing being restricted to other realtors.

A prior open house around that same date is also mentioned in this article.

BBM

“In a statement Friday night, Hoskins added that the Shermans will be deeply missed......

.....The house, where the Shermans live, was recently put on the market for just shy of $7 million.

“We just saw them about two weeks ago,” Alvi said. “They had an open house, lovely couple … They were very courteous. Honey is a sweetheart … She was just a lovely person. It’s so sad that something like this has happened.”
2 found dead in Toronto home of Apotex chairman Barry Sherman

***
Early on Greenspan also spoke about how easy it would be for somebody to break into a lock box and copy a duplicate key, then put the original back. Did this happen, I don’t know. I think at best here we’re speculating about various possibilities, that’s all.

 

[MistyWaters]

Found a copy with reference to the open house, although the tweet is deleted -
from post #510
Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #9
poster tarabull -
Jumping off your post --- are we ALL aware there was an
OPEN HOUSE
TUESDAY NOVEMBER 28
11-12:30 PM
(eta...FWIW)
(Clickable link)

 

[ldlager]

There was an open house advertised on listing realtor ESG’s public twitter acct but it’s long been deleted so I’m unable to link it but iirc the date was near the end of November. IIRC the tweet mentioned nothing specific about viewing being restricted to other realtors.

A prior open house around that same date is also mentioned in this article.

BBM

“In a statement Friday night, Hoskins added that the Shermans will be deeply missed......

.....The house, where the Shermans live, was recently put on the market for just shy of $7 million.

“We just saw them about two weeks ago,” Alvi said. “They had an open house, lovely couple … They were very courteous. Honey is a sweetheart … She was just a lovely person. It’s so sad that something like this has happened.”
2 found dead in Toronto home of Apotex chairman Barry Sherman

***
Early on Greenspan also spoke about how easy it would be for somebody to break into a lock box and copy a duplicate key, then put the original back. Did this happen, I don’t know. I think at best here we’re speculating about various possibilities, that’s all.

There was an open house advertised on listing realtor ESG’s public twitter acct but it’s long been deleted so I’m unable to link it but iirc the date was near the end of November. IIRC the tweet mentioned nothing specific about viewing being restricted to other realtors.

A prior open house around that same date is also mentioned in this article.

BBM

“In a statement Friday night, Hoskins added that the Shermans will be deeply missed......

.....The house, where the Shermans live, was recently put on the market for just shy of $7 million.

“We just saw them about two weeks ago,” Alvi said. “They had an open house, lovely couple … They were very courteous. Honey is a sweetheart … She was just a lovely person. It’s so sad that something like this has happened.”
2 found dead in Toronto home of Apotex chairman Barry Sherman

***
Early on Greenspan also spoke about how easy it would be for somebody to break into a lock box and copy a duplicate key, then put the original back. Did this happen, I don’t know. I think at best here we’re speculating about various possibilities, that’s all.

When their neighbour alvi said she met them at an open house, I believe she meant at an open house like people have for friends and family around the holidays, and that the Sherman’s hosted, not an open house to show their house to prospective buyers. She said “ they had an open house”. It would be very unusual that a realtor would hold an open house for a listing and let the homeowners stay around to greet visitors.

 

[ldlager]

Found a copy with reference to the open house, although the tweet is deleted -
from post #510
Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #9
poster tarabull -
Jumping off your post --- are we ALL aware there was an
OPEN HOUSE
TUESDAY NOVEMBER 28
11-12:30 PM
(eta...FWIW)
(Clickable link)

That was an open house for realtors, to show new listings, which is standard practice. In the Sherman’s neighbourhood, Thursday is the day for the realtor caravan, where realtors visit the new listings that have come on the market.

 

[MistyWaters]

When their neighbour alvi said she met them at an open house, I believe she meant at an open house like people have for friends and family around the holidays, and that the Sherman’s hosted, not an open house to show their house to prospective buyers. She said “ they had an open house”. It would be very unusual that a realtor would hold an open house for a listing and let the homeowners stay around to greet visitors.

I don’t know when you began following this case but the Open House was discussed extensively early on. There’s absolutely no indication it was a realtors open house considering the tweet was posted on a public twitter acct or that Alvi didn’t mean what she said but if you choose to believe otherwise, that’s your prerogative.

 

[Arnie M]

That was an open house for realtors, to show new listings, which is standard practice. In the Sherman’s neighbourhood, Thursday is the day for the realtor caravan, where realtors visit the new listings that have come on the market.

That makes more sense .... an exclusive listing like that would not have a typical open house (open to anyone and everyone)

 

[MistyWaters]

That makes more sense .... an exclusive listing like that would not have a typical open house (open to anyone and everyone)

Other people who are more familiar with the TO market than me have pointed out during that time an outdated Toronto property worth $7 million wasn’t really all that exclusive. I’d also be quite certain it isn’t very common for exclusive properties to be accessed by lock boxes hanging from the front door.

 

[ldlager]

I don’t know when you began following this case but the Open House was discussed extensively early on. There’s absolutely no indication it was a realtors open house considering the tweet was posted on a public twitter acct or that Alvi didn’t mean what she said but if you choose to believe otherwise, that’s your prerogative.

I have followed from day 1 when dotr started the thread.
I am not disagreeing. It was an open house for realtors to view the property. Not for the public. No realtor holds an open house for the public for 90 minutes at mid day on a thursday, when that is the day for the realtor caravan in the Sherman’s neighbourhood. If you choose to believe otherwise, no problem.

 

[ldlager]

Other people who are more familiar with the TO market than me have pointed out during that time an outdated Toronto property worth $7 million wasn’t really all that exclusive. I’d also be quite certain it isn’t very common for exclusive properties to be accessed by lock boxes hanging from the front door.

Agreed. But it would be unusual imo for a 7 million listing to have a lockbox. Unfortunately, the realtors that recommended that to the Sherman’s may have given the killers a means to access the house.

 

[MistyWaters]

An article in Toronto Life also featured the sale of the Sherman home. It’s dated Dec 14th and I have no way of knowing it to be factual but I recall a WS member saying the online TL version is viewable a day or two prior to the date the printed version is released. A couple in their 70s who’ve lived in the same home for decades are both murdered within days of listing that same home. Merely a coincidence? I think the odds are astronomical if there was absolutely no connection between the sale and the timing of their murders.

Pharma titan Barry Sherman is selling his modern North York mansion

In the Likeness/O’Brien tragic triple murder, it was a public listing of an Moving/Estate Sale that suddenly spurred the crazy-grudge-holding killer into action. During the trial it became known the couple was obsessively stalked online by him. I can’t let go of how much that resembles the timing in this case as well.

 

[ldlager]

An article in Toronto Life also featured the sale of the Sherman home. It’s dated Dec 14th and I have no way of knowing it to be factual but I recall a WS member saying the online TL version is viewable a day or two prior to the date the printed version is released. A couple in their 70s who’ve lived in the same home for decades are both murdered within days of listing that same home. Merely a coincidence? I think the odds are astronomical if there was absolutely no connection between the sale and the timing of their murders.

Pharma titan Barry Sherman is selling his modern North York mansion

In the Likeness/O’Brien tragic triple murder, it was a public listing of an Moving/Estate Sale that suddenly spurred the crazy-grudge-holding killer into action. During the trial it became known the couple was obsessively stalked online by him. I can’t let go of how much that resembles the timing in this case as well.

Perhaps the killer or the person that hired the killers knew that once the Sherman’s left their house, it would be difficult to visit them in their new location without being filmed or being subject to some security. Iirc they were going to move into a condo until their new house was ready. I would imagine that accessing them at home in a condo without being filmed or traced would be problematic-probably cameras, maybe a doorman/concierge, etc.
So if they were to be murdered at home, now was the time. Plus, if the killers or the person that hired the killers was fearful of Barry giving away much of his money to charity and/or to honey, time was of the essence.

 

[Arnie M]

An article in Toronto Life also featured the sale of the Sherman home. It’s dated Dec 14th and I have no way of knowing it to be factual but I recall a WS member saying the online TL version is viewable a day or two prior to the date the printed version is released. A couple in their 70s who’ve lived in the same home for decades are both murdered within days of listing that same home. Merely a coincidence? I think the odds are astronomical if there was absolutely no connection between the sale and the timing of their murders.

Pharma titan Barry Sherman is selling his modern North York mansion

In the Likeness/O’Brien tragic triple murder, it was a public listing of an Moving/Estate Sale that suddenly spurred the crazy-grudge-holding killer into action. During the trial it became known the couple was obsessively stalked online by him. I can’t let go of how much that resembles the timing in this case as well.

The Likeness/O’Brien murder was committed by someone who silently held a grudge for a long time.

Using that same analogy I could make a case against the house designer/ contractors who were sued by Barry for something like 2.3 million ... he probably got the house almost for free .

I mentioned that last year and some folks dumped on me saying Barry would have spent that money on repairs .... I say no .... 2.3M you could tear it down and completely rebuild it .... remember this was 1980's dollars ... he probably spent a bit to fix some flaws but I believe the lawsuit was more about the personal expectations Barry had that were not fulfilled by the contractor ... true enough .... but BS who loved to sue used those fine legal points to get a refund. And we all know BS could care less about how his actions may hurt fellow humans.

Jump ahead 30 years and the Sherman's list this same wonderful architecturally unique home for sale .... the same home at one time they said was flawed.

One oddball item always stood out to me .... the building report tossed on the floor at the murder scene ... a building report is typically provided in real estate listings . It would likely be a "favorable report"

But I bet back in the 1980's BS had a building report on that very same house detailing all its flaws. .... AAAHH the irony !!!

If I was that original builder who held a silent grudge I would be mighty angry . I would not murder , but the thought would flash thru my mind.

Home builders have door keys for the houses they build

Original owners very seldom change locks.

..

 

[casesensitive]

Found a copy with reference to the open house, although the tweet is deleted -
from post #510
Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #9
poster tarabull -
Jumping off your post --- are we ALL aware there was an
OPEN HOUSE
TUESDAY NOVEMBER 28
11-12:30 PM
(eta...FWIW)
(Clickable link)

You are correct Misty. There was an open house, and it was clearly for public viewing. I also recall that TPS stated (in the presser video) that a main priority was to track down about 120 people who viewed the house while it was for sale.

Elise Stern presents

50 OLD COLONY ROAD

$6,988,000

OPEN HOUSE
TUESDAY NOVEMBER 28
11-12:30 PM

50 Old Colony Rd. Open House Tuesday November 28 11-12:30 pm

 

[MistyWaters]

You are correct Misty. There was an open house, and it was clearly for public viewing. I also recall that TPS stated (in the presser video) that a main priority was to track down about 120 people who viewed the house while it was for sale.

Elise Stern presents

50 OLD COLONY ROAD

$6,988,000

OPEN HOUSE
TUESDAY NOVEMBER 28
11-12:30 PM

50 Old Colony Rd. Open House Tuesday November 28 11-12:30 pm

Thank you, I’d forgotten about TPS’s mention of all the viewers of that property.

Based on my own experience, real estate has changed from years gone by. On the topic of real estate open houses, it used to be that prospective buyers had to look through a binder of photos of homes listed so then realtor open houses were quite common. Now with online listings, often including videos, google maps offering an eye view of location, realtors wasting their time prospecting for suitable houses for their clients I think has become redundant. There was no realtor open house for the last home I sold 3 years ago and I received an offer 2 days after listing. This past summer my friends scheduled a private viewing on a home just placed on the market only to arrive to discover the listing realtor suddenly advertised a public open house for that very same afternoon, 2 days after it was listed. They’re realtor claimed not to have known, ya right. It really wouldn’t surprise me if both realtors and viewers are sometimes invited to attend the same open houses - knowing the prime objective of listing realtors is to sell with the hope of attracting multi-offers....the greater the sale price, the more the commission.

The Sherman home was low priced in comparison to others in that area. I recall other posters here remarking it appeared to be listed at not much more than lot value. That would make sense to me as the home was definitely dated and most in the market of + million dollar real estate are not looking for dated preowned homes to buy - much like the Shermans, they just want a desirable location to rebuild their dream home.

The wealthy market also does not work weekdays, Monday to Friday. Therefore I don’t think the timing of this open house held on a Thursday is unusual at all.

What I’ve been very curious about since the beginning - why was the home listed while the Shermans were still living in it? Even us middle class folks avoid the hassle and inconvenience if at all possible. Why wasn’t the home listed after both had left for Florida, planning not to return until mid January iirc, when it might’ve already been sold?

 

[Tighthead]

I was once told that open houses benefit the realtor more than the vendor. It gives them access to potential buyers who may not have representation. I bought my first house using a realtor who I met at an open house. Didn’t like the house, thought she was great. With referrals, I’ll bet she got 4 commissions from me within a year.

Certainly seems like a strange move for a house in this sector of the market. People spending that sort or money are going to be selective and have in mind the type of house they want. Open houses do work well for first time buyers who have limited options and can’t be choosy.

 

[MistyWaters]

The Likeness/O’Brien murder was committed by someone who silently held a grudge for a long time.

Using that same analogy I could make a case against the house designer/ contractors who were sued by Barry for something like 2.3 million ... he probably got the house almost for free .

I mentioned that last year and some folks dumped on me saying Barry would have spent that money on repairs .... I say no .... 2.3M you could tear it down and completely rebuild it .... remember this was 1980's dollars ... he probably spent a bit to fix some flaws but I believe the lawsuit was more about the personal expectations Barry had that were not fulfilled by the contractor ... true enough .... but BS who loved to sue used those fine legal points to get a refund. And we all know BS could care less about how his actions may hurt fellow humans.

Jump ahead 30 years and the Sherman's list this same wonderful architecturally unique home for sale .... the same home at one time they said was flawed.

One oddball item always stood out to me .... the building report tossed on the floor at the murder scene ... a building report is typically provided in real estate listings . It would likely be a "favorable report"

But I bet back in the 1980's BS had a building report on that very same house detailing all its flaws. .... AAAHH the irony !!!

If I was that original builder who held a silent grudge I would be mighty angry . I would not murder , but the thought would flash thru my mind.

Home builders have door keys for the houses they build

Original owners very seldom change locks.

..

The Sherman property was bought in 1985, 32 years prior to their murders. It’d be unlikely at the time a reputable contractor was only in his 20s so that’d put a potential murderer of that sort well into his 60s or 70s. I just can’t see it.

In the Likeness/O’Brien case, I recall A had recently declared bankruptcy of his business. The going theory was the killer might’ve been somebody who felt ripped off because a debt hadn’t been repaid. Nobody expected it might’ve pertained to a long ago incident over a failed patent involving a relative. Garland clearly had mental issues well beyond black and white monetary revenge, given the gore related material found in his home and he was also under psychiatric treatment at the time.

The theory of a contractor killer resembles the motive being A’s bankruptcy, insinuating B wrongfully made money off the back of a contractor and they got his house built for free. In Canada reward for damages for faulty construction are based awards for costs to repair. And it costs a lot more to rip out shoddy work than it does to build from new. I don’t believe there was a financial gain at all and I doubt the killer was a senior citizen. JMO

 

[ldlager]

Thank you, I’d forgotten about TPS’s mention of all the viewers of that property.

Based on my own experience, real estate has changed from years gone by. On the topic of real estate open houses, it used to be that prospective buyers had to look through a binder of photos of homes listed so then realtor open houses were quite common. Now with online listings, often including videos, google maps offering an eye view of location, realtors wasting their time prospecting for suitable houses for their clients I think has become redundant. There was no realtor open house for the last home I sold 3 years ago and I received an offer 2 days after listing. This past summer my friends scheduled a private viewing on a home just placed on the market only to arrive to discover the listing realtor suddenly advertised a public open house for that very same afternoon, 2 days after it was listed. They’re realtor claimed not to have known, ya right. It really wouldn’t surprise me if both realtors and viewers are sometimes invited to attend the same open houses - knowing the prime objective of listing realtors is to sell with the hope of attracting multi-offers....the greater the sale price, the more the commission.

The Sherman home was low priced in comparison to others in that area. I recall other posters here remarking it appeared to be listed at not much more than lot value. That would make sense to me as the home was definitely dated and most in the market of + million dollar real estate are not looking for dated preowned homes to buy - much like the Shermans, they just want a desirable location to rebuild their dream home.

The wealthy market also does not work weekdays, Monday to Friday. Therefore I don’t think the timing of this open house held on a Thursday is unusual at all.

What I’ve been very curious about since the beginning - why was the home listed while the Shermans were still living in it? Even us middle class folks avoid the hassle and inconvenience if at all possible. Why wasn’t the home listed after both had left for Florida, planning not to return until mid January iirc, when it might’ve already been sold?

 

[branmuffin]

AFAIK there was never an open house held for the public. I seem to recall there was a realtor open house, as is common practice. And house tours for prospective buyers accompanied by realtors. It seems unlikely to me that the killer or killers registered with a realtor and took a tour of the house to scope it out. It would make it too easy for them to be traced.

Someone wanted them both dead. If not family, then who?

That type of home is rarely offered through open houses. The agents make appointments. No random people walking through. It's just not the norm for high end properties. I worked briefly for a multi-millionaire who had a sensational property on Lake Simcoe. During the listing, no one entered that home before they had made a special appointment with the realtor.

Definitely someone wanted them both dead. The juxtaposition of the bodies to reflect the art installation suggests a familiarity with the home and the owners. IMO

 

[deugirtni]

I also can't imagine a "public" open house being held. We know there was at least one open house (noted on twitter, however it may not have been intended to be exactly 'public') and possibly two (the Sherman neighbor mentioned Honey's open house) - possibly it was an open house meant to introduce that the home was going on the market, first to friends, family, associates, and fellow Realtors with a potential interest in the neighborhood... kind of "invite only", doubleduty type of thing?

Often it is beneficial to explore possibilities ahead of time in the event it might be able to be sold before officially on the market. Sometimes people are waiting/hoping for a home in a certain area, or want to move closer to someone already living in the neighborhood, etc. A kind of "coming soon" type of marketing initiative. The number of people TPS said they had to follow up with could be a combination of such a private/invite-only/register in advance type of event?

What I find strange is the existence of the lockbox, period. I believe we have read there were stipulations in place for the listing agent (or her designated 'assistant' (Stern?)) to be present during all showings. Why not physically give a key to only those two agents if one of them had to be there anyway?