CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #18

[Lexiintoronto]

Maybe the court decree and the payment due are all handled by lawyers and the kids can keep an extended distance from this situation. Lack of reports on payouts

Just because you lose a case does not mean that you end up paying it out. If you do not have the money then what? Anyone can declare bankruptcy, this should be covered under that. If you have it and do not pay, then what recourse does BS have? this is not a criminal conviction, this was a civil case, I assume they can send collection calls, I doubt they would have any right to freeze a bank account or take any money, the properties were already "collected" but seriously what else can you do, you cannot get blood from a stone.

We do not know if the Winter family had the money to cover the court costs of both sides? that is a lot of money. Even if you do have 600+K around it is hard to let it go and spend it, look at many other people who win cases that require a monetary payout, they never see a penny, it stays tied up in courts and red tape for years, in some cases decades. really poor example but look at OJS, he owes millions to the Goldburgs (SP?) and has paid little to none, and he has been earning $$.

IMO whoever is responsible for the murders or planning of murders knew this case/situation would be highly suspect once the bodies were found and used KW and his emotional connection to BS in a very hurtful way. IMO the scene was staged to be confusing and very misleading.

RBBM

Used KW’s emotional connection to Barry in a hurtful way?

 

[ldlager]

Sorry to reply to myself, but..... we're asking who would've benefitted financially from B&H's deaths, and suggesting the kids and their respective spouses.. however, that would only be if the couple remained together (unlike two out of four of the offspring, while one was apparently single to begin with). I believe that inheritances are not subject to family law rules regarding splitting of assets (unless the money is spent on something such as, say, the marital home, etc.). imo.

I think the non Sherman spouse who was one one side of a divorce would have made out quite well financially, especially since their soon to be ex spouse inherited all kinds of $. I am not saying it is required under law, I just believe it is the case here.

 

[ldlager]

Sorry to reply to myself, but..... we're asking who would've benefitted financially from B&H's deaths, and suggesting the kids and their respective spouses.. however, that would only be if the couple remained together (unlike two out of four of the offspring, while one was apparently single to begin with). I believe that inheritances are not subject to family law rules regarding splitting of assets (unless the money is spent on something such as, say, the marital home, etc.). imo.

 

[deugirtni]

In discussing the sleeping arrangements of the Shermans and whether or not they shared the same bedroom for the past 10 years.............. it is interesting that the couple, at the very time of their deaths, would be in the midst of refining design for their new 16,000 square foot home to cost some $30 million, IIRC, which plans designed by Brennan in February 2017 and approved by the city in July 2017, included a huge master bedroom suite, with a 'his bathroom' and a 'his closet', and a 'her bathroom' and a couple of 'her closets'.... if only to have one of them actually be staying in/using a different bedroom. It's possible it could all have been for show, but for whom and for what purpose? Who would even see the bedrooms, as guests don't usually travel to the second floor unless they might happen to be staying overnight, and even then, they wouldn't really have a reason to be snooping around the master bedroom, imho, and even if they did, would someone waste millions just for that possibility just to hide the fact the owners slept in separate rooms in their elder years? If for future resale value, there is really no reason to have two full ensuites and 3 walk-in closets in the master bedroom suite, one of each likely could have sufficed for 'everyday folk'? It seems the plans are still available online here: https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/8f7a-C_of_A_TEY_Decisions_June_28_2017.pdf as noted by @fred&edna here: Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #2

I'm wondering if anyone else had reported to police that the couple slept in separate bedrooms for the past 10 years (there should be many individuals who knew this, if true, imo), and if not, why not, and if not, then is it even true, and if not, then what would be the intent of JS making that claim? jmo.

ETA: starting at page 112 in the PDF document

 

[deugirtni]

I think the non Sherman spouse who was one one side of a divorce would have made out quite well financially, especially since their soon to be ex spouse inherited all kinds of $. I am not saying it is required under law, I just believe it is the case here.

I believe the spouse who may or may not divorce any of the Sherman offspring, would make out quite well financially, regardless of whether or not the parents of said spouse lived or died. Inheritances are not included in divorce settlements (unless spent in certain ways), and there is no reason to believe a Sherman in-law would be any different. imo.

In Ontario, the Family Law Act excludes certain property from the net family property calculation. Net family property is the value of each spouse’s property, after deducting debts and liabilities at the time of separation, and then deducting the value of assets brought into the marriage (other than the matrimonial home). ...

What property is excluded?

Generally, the following property does not need to be shared upon marriage breakdown:

• gifts, given to only one of the spouses, from a third party,
• inheritances, given to only one of the spouses,
• increase in the value of gifts and inheritances, where the donor expressly stated that the gift or inheritance was to be excluded from the spouse’s net family property,
• increase in the value of property (other than a matrimonial home) where the property can be traced to an excluded property,
• money received as a result of a personal injury claim,
• proceeds of a life insurance policy, paid or payable on the death of the insured,
• property that the spouses agreed to be excluded in a marriage contract.

Gifts, inheritances and other excluded property - FREE Legal Information | Legal Line

 

[juli99]

In discussing the sleeping arrangements of the Shermans and whether or not they shared the same bedroom for the past 10 years.............. it is interesting that the couple, at the very time of their deaths, would be in the midst of refining design for their new 16,000 square foot home to cost some $30 million, IIRC, which plans designed by Brennan in February 2017 and approved by the city in July 2017, included a huge master bedroom suite, with a 'his bathroom' and a 'his closet', and a 'her bathroom' and a couple of 'her closets'.... if only to have one of them actually be staying in/using a different bedroom. It's possible it could all have been for show, but for whom and for what purpose? Who would even see the bedrooms, as guests don't usually travel to the second floor unless they might happen to be staying overnight, and even then, they wouldn't really have a reason to be snooping around the master bedroom, imho, and even if they did, would someone waste millions just for that possibility just to hide the fact the owners slept in separate rooms in their elder years? If for future resale value, there is really no reason to have two full ensuites and 3 walk-in closets in the master bedroom suite, one of each likely could have sufficed for 'everyday folk'? It seems the plans are still available online here: https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/8f7a-C_of_A_TEY_Decisions_June_28_2017.pdf as noted by @fred&edna here: Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #2

I'm wondering if anyone else had reported to police that the couple slept in separate bedrooms for the past 10 years (there should be many individuals who knew this, if true, imo), and if not, why not, and if not, then is it even true, and if not, then what would be the intent of JS making that claim? jmo.

ETA: starting at page 112 in the PDF document

Very interesting to see the plans for the house! My guess is that they wanted the house to reflect their ideal reality. Perhaps they occasionally slept together, but for the most part slept apart. It's not so much about a pretense for other people, than it is about not admitting to themselves the true nature of their situation. I think this is fairly common. JMO

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

RBBM

Used KW’s emotional connection to Barry in a hurtful way?

IMO culprit knew the fragile state of the family situation with KW and his family, knew KW would take interviews, and speak freely of his experiences with the Shermans and that he would be a quick suspect based on his anger and resentment. I think they used this to an advantage, a red herring or distraction. Even if the scene was staged to look like M/S, with so many people with intimate relations with the couple immediately stating no way was this M/S or S/S, why stage it in that manner. Makes you wonder who else did KW ever tell that BS asked him to find someone to snuff HS (I know feedback will be he failed a poly, but we know Poly's are not valid enough to use in court, so if it can not stand up to the proof needed from evidence like from DNA or a fingerprint it is unfair to use it for the general public to form a decision of truth or lie - I think a conversation of something did happen and KW recalls that one sentence be it a joke in a conversation where hiring hitmen was involved, remember the kids say home life for years was not always copacetic, they argued, and in heated moments people often say things that are not meant to be taken 100% at face value.)

 

[deugirtni]

Very interesting to see the plans for the house! My guess is that they wanted the house to reflect their ideal reality. Perhaps they occasionally slept together, but for the most part slept apart. It's not so much about a pretense for other people, than it is about not admitting to themselves the true nature of their situation. I think this is fairly common. JMO

Or perhaps they shared a bedroom and slept together and someone is full of it. jmo.

 

[juli99]

I think I left out three people on the "who would benefit" list. If KW is said to potentially benefit from the deaths, then by extension so would his siblings/wife of sibling who were part of the court proceedings.

 

[ollie2]

Blank

Very interesting to see the plans for the house! My guess is that they wanted the house to reflect their ideal reality. Perhaps they occasionally slept together, but for the most part slept apart. It's not so much about a pretense for other people, than it is about not admitting to themselves the true nature of their situation. I think this is fairly common. JMO

Maybe the reason for a large "master bedroom" including His and Her bathrooms et al is keeping in mind resale value. They weren't a young couple at the time of their tragic deaths. To me it would appear very strange if a home at 15,000 sq. feet did not have a large master with closets and bathrooms including a personal and private suite for couple.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

I agree that those conversations happen Bobbie, but not everyone would necessarily vocalize a why.

Understood, I am not saying everyone, myself I would not say it out loud or in the presence of the sales rep.

Let me clarify, of the people that did make statements 75% were women and couples do throw stabs at each other regarding living spaces and how they live in them, even when they try to pass it off as joking it is clear it is a dig!

 

[juli99]

Or perhaps they shared a bedroom and slept together and someone is full of it. jmo.

Let's say for a moment that someone is full of it. And so imagine BS and HS happily slept together but a story is circulating that they did not. This is to plant the seed of M/S? Other children have said their relationship was not always good, so I'm not sure what the bedroom stuff adds. All it would do is confirm someone is a liar. And beg the question, what else is being lied about. A super interesting angle for KD would be to ask Alex why she suspected JS. I'm not sure if that's ever been discussed.

 

[deugirtni]

Let's say for a moment that someone is full of it. And so imagine BS and HS happily slept together but a story is circulating that they did not. This is to plant the seed of M/S? Other children have said their relationship was not always good, so I'm not sure what the bedroom stuff adds. All it would do is confirm someone is a liar. And beg the question, what else is being lied about. A super interesting angle for KD would be to ask Alex why she suspected JS. I'm not sure if that's ever been discussed.

As far as I have understood, AS no longer gives interviews, no longer speaks to KD. He learned about that accusation from JS, who relayed it as something his sister believes.. but seems KD is unable to corroborate it.Possibly he also can't corroborate the separate bedrooms.

As another thought... even if true that H&B have slept in separate bedrooms for the 10 years preceding their murders... why is J the only one to have mentioned this, and what was his purpose in doing so?

 

[ollie2]

Let's say for a moment that someone is full of it. And so imagine BS and HS happily slept together but a story is circulating that they did not. This is to plant the seed of M/S? Other children have said their relationship was not always good, so I'm not sure what the bedroom stuff adds. All it would do is confirm someone is a liar. And beg the question, what else is being lied about. A super interesting angle for KD would be to ask Alex why she suspected JS. I'm not sure if that's ever been discussed.

Yeah...lots to unpack in this. If a couple have a king size bed, they are within 6 feet of each other. I would think if you can stand the person, 6 feet is a good distance even if their relationship wasn't always good. The bedroom stuff adds nothing, I would question also. And again- hasn't M/S been ruled out and wan't the reaction of all their children (JS) say, no way upon hearing that theory from the start,

 

[deugirtni]

Yeah...lots to unpack in this. If a couple have a king size bed, they are within 6 feet of each other. I would think if you can stand the person, 6 feet is a good distance even if their relationship wasn't always good. The bedroom stuff adds nothing, I would question also. And again- hasn't M/S been ruled out and wan't the reaction of all their children (JS) say, no way upon hearing that theory from the start,

Their bedroom was large enough to accommodate two kingsized beds.. or two doubles.. or two queens.. or whatever (I mean together), or even a custom oversized bed. All the kids have said that although there was a lot of arguing and whatever going on in their younger years, the couple have been getting along in more recent years.. holding hands when they walk, even? So yes, M/S has been ruled out, but not for the first six weeks.. when LE announced it was a double homicide. And all of the kids were unified in saying no way was it M/S (how could they NOT be unified in that, since, if one said, nope, it could've very well been M/S, it would stick out as a potential red flag??).. but yet, 4 years later, we hear that during initial police statement(s) (which were previously reported as having taken place within the first days after the murders), made the statement that yeah but, they slept in separate bedrooms for the past 10 years, and they didn't get along, and their private togetherness was much different from what they portrayed publicly.. it almost sounds like... someone else, when they proclaimed that Barry HATED Honey. So when I think about that, I almost get a sense of..... while saying one thing in unison with the family, little messages to the contrary, but not blunt messages, were being sent out to police at the time when they were in the process of making a determination. And perhaps that served some kind of a purpose? imo. When one thinks about it, what a great 'reverse psychology' type of thing.. ie, can't look at me, because I'm proclaiming it COULDN'T be M/S, but here are some juicy tidbits that might indicate something else, perhaps possibly that it COULD have been(???), because really, they didn't get along and hadn't slept together in 10 years, something only those the very closest to them might know.

 

[MistyWaters]

Their bedroom was large enough to accommodate two kingsized beds.. or two doubles.. or two queens.. or whatever (I mean together), or even a custom oversized bed. All the kids have said that although there was a lot of arguing and whatever going on in their younger years, the couple have been getting along in more recent years.. holding hands when they walk, even? So yes, M/S has been ruled out, but not for the first six weeks.. when LE announced it was a double homicide. And all of the kids were unified in saying no way was it M/S (how could they NOT be unified in that, since, if one said, nope, it could've very well been M/S, it would stick out as a potential red flag??).. but yet, 4 years later, we hear that during initial police statement(s) (which were previously reported as having taken place within the first days after the murders), made the statement that yeah but, they slept in separate bedrooms for the past 10 years, and they didn't get along, and their private togetherness was much different from what they portrayed publicly.. it almost sounds like... someone else, when they proclaimed that Barry HATED Honey. So when I think about that, I almost get a sense of..... while saying one thing in unison with the family, little messages to the contrary, but not blunt messages, were being sent out to police at the time when they were in the process of making a determination. And perhaps that served some kind of a purpose? imo. When one thinks about it, what a great 'reverse psychology' type of thing.. ie, can't look at me, because I'm proclaiming it COULDN'T be M/S, but here are some juicy tidbits that might indicate something else, perhaps possibly that it COULD have been(???), because really, they didn't get along and hadn't slept together in 10 years, something only those the very closest to them might know.

It would be statements or information that was redacted that is the focus of TPS’s investigation. They’re not going to release unredacted statements to the public that incriminates who they consider to be a suspect.

 

[WINDSOR]

I personally think the sleeping arrangements discussion is just gossip, and totally irrelevant, especially if someone is trying create a M/S scenario.
For the believers, please explain how the NW fits the M/S scenario?

 

[MistyWaters]

I personally think the sleeping arrangements discussion is just gossip, and totally irrelevant, especially if someone is trying create a M/S scenario.
For the believers, please explain how the NW fits the M/S scenario?

I think so too. Separate sleeping arrangements might be relevant to the state of the marriage for a couple in their 20s or 30s, but definitely not for a couple in their 70s.

 

[juli99]

I personally think the sleeping arrangements discussion is just gossip, and totally irrelevant, especially if someone is trying create a M/S scenario.
For the believers, please explain how the NW fits the M/S scenario?

It's only relevant if it's a lie. To the extent that it reflects the character of the person who said it. I didn't think we were discussing it in the context of an actual M/S. But I agree, time to move on.

 

[ollie2]

someone else, when they proclaimed that Barry HATED Honey.

That someone else, failed the polygraph.