CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #18

[newclues]

Unhook and Reuse Plastic Zip Ties with a Simple Trick (lifehacker.com)
''Zip ties are great for organizing cables and the like, but most people don't know that you can reuse them over and over again. You can, and here's how.
We've shown you one method for creating your own reusable zip ties, but if you need to undo a traditionally locked zip tie, reader Jack Weekes shows us that it's actually really easy. Just stick your fingernail in the locking mechanism (or a pin, if your fingernail won't fit), press down, and slide it out.''

Is it possible that the killer used the same zip tie to kill them both at different times and to also move their bodies too?

 

[juli99]

A reference to the possibility of some kind of vehicle.
Dec. 2021
@3:00

"Walking is his general action." That's what police said. KD took that to mean a possible vehicle, but couldn't it also mean public transit?

 

[juli99]

Is it possible that the killer used the same zip tie to kill them both at different times and to also move their bodies too?

What do you mean by to move their bodies?

 

[deugirtni]

"Walking is his general action." That's what police said. KD took that to mean a possible vehicle, but couldn't it also mean public transit?

It could have meant anything, ie he could've been jogging or running at one point, or stopped in front of somewhere, or went into somewhere, or made a cellphone call, etc. That wasn't KD in the interview, it was retired homicide detective Kevin Bryan.

 

[deugirtni]

What do you mean by to move their bodies?

The killer had to move their bodies to the railing... they could've done so by putting their wrists together after death, using a ziptie or even the same ziptie, to make it easier to drag them? jmo.

 

[juli99]

The killer had to move their bodies to the railing... they could've done so by putting their wrists together after death, using a ziptie or even the same ziptie, to make it easier to drag them? jmo.

Oh okay. I assumed their wrists were bound when they were alive.

 

[deugirtni]

Oh okay. I assumed their wrists were bound when they were alive.

They may have been, but not sure that is publicly known.. also not sure how the wrist markings would've been different if done while alive vs dead? I'm thinking, based on what we know of the scene, that each may have been surprised/accosted/murdered quickly upon entering the home. But who knows.

 

[newclues]

Unhook and Reuse Plastic Zip Ties with a Simple Trick (lifehacker.com)
''Zip ties are great for organizing cables and the like, but most people don't know that you can reuse them over and over again. You can, and here's how.
We've shown you one method for creating your own reusable zip ties, but if you need to undo a traditionally locked zip tie, reader Jack Weekes shows us that it's actually really easy. Just stick your fingernail in the locking mechanism (or a pin, if your fingernail won't fit), press down, and slide it out.''

Is it possible that the killer used the same zip tie to kill them both at different times and to also move their bodies too?

What do you mean by to move their bodies?

It appears that zip ties may have also been tied to their wrists to move their dead bodies.

 

[MistyWaters]

It appears that zip ties may have also been tied to their wrists to move their dead bodies.

I don’t know that we’ll ever know when the wrist restraints were removed for sure but restraining someone’s wrists prior to strangulation so they can’t struggle or fight back with their hands and arms would seem to me the original purpose behind binding of the wrists.

 

[dalsglen]

With the NW does anyone else notice that the head and pelvis aren't in line? Almost kyphosis like.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

With the NW does anyone else notice that the head and pelvis aren't in line? Almost kyphosis like.

It does seem he has an upper curvature or slumping forward. A few people close to the case have that posture, imo.

At first glance I thought he may have had a backpack on.

 

[juli99]

It does seem he has an upper curvature or slumping forward. A few people close to the case have that posture, imo.

At first glance I thought he may have had a backpack on.

I see that too, but to me it's almost like his whole upper body is leaning backward. I'm almost wondering if it's an artifact of the CCTV because if you look at the fire hydrant and trees, they also appear to be leaning.

 

[Sphinx]

And if revenge... why BOTH of them.. and why the 'staging'.. and why the 'apparent' (successful?) attempt to lead police to wrongly believe M/S? I understand that the public isn't privy to all of those who may have possibly felt vengeful toward the Sherman couple.. ie the builders, et al, involved in the construction of Old Colony house.. potentially tenants of dwellings the Shermans owned (if they were known as joint landlords?).. perhaps like MS mentioned, someone who felt slighted by rude remarks (but by both B&H??).. one charity perhaps being bypassed for whatever reason... etc etc etc.. but for all of those, and whatever others people can conjure up as possibilities.. what would be the reason for, not only the apparent attempt to mislead police, but also the weird staging... why not just do it as quickly as possible, leave the bodies where they fell, and get the hay out of there as quickly as possible? If they wanted to hide the motive of vengeance, why not make it appear to be a home invasion, or a robbery?

What if it was not "staging" as revenge, but just staging to make it look like a murder/suicide ? I think the killer was ordered to do it in such a way that it would be obvious to police, and hence no homicide investigation would be carried out. In that way, the killer, and the person who hired him, could get away much easier, and inheritance money would not be held up. IMO

 

[Rush4087]

I see that too, but to me it's almost like his whole upper body is leaning backward. I'm almost wondering if it's an artifact of the CCTV because if you look at the fire hydrant and trees, they also appear to be leaning.

I think that is because he is attempting to walk fast without it appearing that he is attempting to walk fast: legs way out in front and striding - while upper body stays back, hands in pockets. Just out for a casual stroll.. Jmo

 

[dotr]

.

 

[juli99]

What if it was not "staging" as revenge, but just staging to make it look like a murder/suicide ? I think the killer was ordered to do it in such a way that it would be obvious to police, and hence no homicide investigation would be carried out. In that way, the killer, and the person who hired him, could get away much easier, and inheritance money would not be held up. IMO

The only thing that makes me pause about this is the papers and gloves left on the floor. If this is a hired killer, that's a detail you would think they would notice. Especially since he probably went back out that way. Honey's cell phone I can understand he might not notice/forget, but the papers and gloves?

 

[dotr]

In recent news, a Russian billionaire was found hanging at his home in the UK, he was not the only one...
Some think it was a suicide, others are sure it was a hit, for obvious reasons i wonder if there was a connection somehow to the Sherman murders.
If true, and there is some kind of info that LE need from Russia, would all bets be off at this point?
Also posted on the Ukraine thread, fwiw, imo, speculation.

March 2 2022
rbbm.
Ukrainian-born tycoon who was found hanged in Surrey mansion 'feared he was on Putin hit list' | Daily Mail Online
''A female neighbour of Mikhail Watford, 66, said the property mogul - who made his fortune in oil and gas - feared he was a prime target for the warring Russian president in the months leading up to his death.
The body of Mr Watford was found Monday at his home in the luxury Wentworth Estate in Virginia Water, where properties sell for up to £20million.
The neighbour also told the Sun that Mr Watford, known as Misha, had been a friend of Russian billionaire Boris Berezovsky, who was found hanged at his home in Ascot, Berkshire, in 2013.
She claimed Mr Watford had told her that Berezovsky was murdered by an intelligence agency.''

4 days ago
Ukrainian-born tycoon Mikhail ...
tsbnews.co

 

[WINDSOR]

What if it was not "staging" as revenge, but just staging to make it look like a murder/suicide ? I think the killer was ordered to do it in such a way that it would be obvious to police, and hence no homicide investigation would be carried out. In that way, the killer, and the person who hired him, could get away much easier, and inheritance money would not be held up. IMO

If someone wanted to kill the Shermans and wanted to make it look like a suicide they could have done a much better job at the cover-up
a) A typewritten suicide note, would be most appropriate.
b) Both victims in bed, looking peaceful.
c) Injected with quick acting poison, with syringes lying on bed. It would appear that Barry injected Honey first then himself.
d) Victims cleaned up, no signs of struggle.

Investigators would have a real problem believing a double homicide.
The fact bodies were moved to pool room and staged with the victims' coats on, tells another story.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

"LE looking for ties" I would think not likely since they deemed the Shermans deaths to be M/S the first week after they were found.
However, I do think had they found ties in the road drains, they would not have ignored them. (?)

Do we know why a drain search was done then?

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

I have to wonder, if it is a zip tie, how difficult it would be to remove after the fact and what would be used to do that. Scissors?

In my experience wire cutters work better, they can get into small areas and IMO scissors would leave longer, larger marks on the neck and you would need more work to get through the dense plastic tie with simple scissors.