CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #19

[deugirtni]

Re the fatal stabbing of 4 students at the University of Idaho:
“…. After initially saying there was no ongoing danger, police reversed themselves Wednesday. “We cannot say that there is no threat to the community,” Moscow Police Chief James Fry said. “We still believe it’s a targeted attack. But the reality is there still is a person out there who committed four very horrible, horrible crimes.…”

similar to the original statement made by LE in the Sherman murder. Except they never reversed themselves later To warn the public to be vigilant. The Idaho attacks appear targeted, just like the Sherman’s. So Why did the TPS not think the Sherman’s neighbours could also be at risk and warning them?

That's the whole thing about LE really thinking it was a M/S.

 

[WINDSOR]

That's the whole thing about LE really thinking it was a M/S

I was becoming quite cynical about the TPS and their 'thinking' process.

Then I considered; if the TPS knows unequivocally who the mastermind of the murders is, then what would TPS's behaviors be, assuming they only need more evidence to lay charges and go to trial.

• I think they would be very reticent to make any public pronouncements so as not 'spook' the subject.
• They would keep a very low profile investigation, and minimize the importance of evidence collection. They might only have one detective assigned to the case. If you know 'John Smith' is the culprit, and never left Canada, no need to check Airport videos.
• They would likely focus on collecting human collaboration of the evidence they already have, which is extremely powerful in Courts.

Either the TPS has cracked the case, and just waiting for collaborating evidence to lay charges. Or they are dunderheads, who have missed crucial opportunities to collect the evidence to solve the case.

I am just not sure.

 

[deugirtni]

I was becoming quite cynical about the TPS and their 'thinking' process.

Then I considered; if the TPS knows unequivocally who the mastermind of the murders is, then what would TPS's behaviors be, assuming they only need more evidence to lay charges and go to trial.

• I think they would be very reticent to make any public pronouncements so as not 'spook' the subject.
• They would keep a very low profile investigation, and minimize the importance of evidence collection. They might only have one detective assigned to the case. If you know 'John Smith' is the culprit, and never left Canada, no need to check Airport videos.
• They would likely focus on collecting human collaboration of the evidence they already have, which is extremely powerful in Courts.

Either the TPS has cracked the case, and just waiting for collaborating evidence to lay charges. Or they are dunderheads, who have missed crucial opportunities to collect the evidence to solve the case.

I am just not sure.

But that suggests dangerous tunnel vision, from the beginning. Even if they 'knew' that 'John Smith' was the culprit (which, how could they know right away?) - he may not have necessarily have done the deed himself in person, and whoever his hired hand may have been, may have entered and exited the country. Or maybe something comes up a bit later to rule out 'John Smith', now it's too late to gather airport footage. That doesn't sound smart either way. We're not dealing with BF Egypt, this is Toronto.

But...... is it written in stone just because an investigative reporter is regularly attending court to gain access to information, that he must be given ALL docs/photos/info from the active and ongoing police investigation? Who would want that? Surely not the cops? Surely the judge wouldn't force TPS to give up the most pertinent and perhaps delicate of ongoing info?

What if KD didn't ask the question exactly how he might have? ie, according to KD's article, he asked Yim:

Following up on this, the Star asked Yim if police pulled footage from Pearson airport, to see if someone with the unusual gait went through security.

Yim replied: “I don’t know, no, I don’t think so.” Yim said the problem with trying to pinpoint the “Walking Man” on airport security footage is “there’s no image or facial detail” in the home security footage they do have. He also said the Walking Man “could have changed their clothing, they could have done all sorts of things.”

Yim's answer wasn't something one could take to the bank to begin with, but what if it wasn't TPS that pulled footage, but another service? What if it wasn't the airport that had the footage, but another entity?

I just don't know either.

Quote above is from here: Detectives in Barry and Honey Sherman case never checked Pearson airport cameras in hunt for killers

 

[ollie2]

I was becoming quite cynical about the TPS and their 'thinking' process.

Then I considered; if the TPS knows unequivocally who the mastermind of the murders is, then what would TPS's behaviors be, assuming they only need more evidence to lay charges and go to trial.

• I think they would be very reticent to make any public pronouncements so as not 'spook' the subject.
• They would keep a very low profile investigation, and minimize the importance of evidence collection. They might only have one detective assigned to the case. If you know 'John Smith' is the culprit, and never left Canada, no need to check Airport videos.
• They would likely focus on collecting human collaboration of the evidence they already have, which is extremely powerful in Courts.

Either the TPS has cracked the case, and just waiting for collaborating evidence to lay charges. Or they are dunderheads, who have missed crucial opportunities to collect the evidence to solve the case.

I am just not sure.

 

[ollie2]

This is and has been my thinking for a long time. That they do know who the mastermind is but need an air tight case in order to charge. We can't assume that LE is resting on their laurels because we are not getting updates. I don't think the public is privy to every detail of the ongoing investigation. This case is not a threat to society at large. It's targeted.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Bobbi, you sound like an apologist for the TPS. Yes, law enforcement agencies have a difficult role in society, and that is why they have special powers that no other group of individuals have. They have a difficult role as part of the Justice system, and they are always under scrutiny.

However,

• A simple phone call to the transportation agencies, to, not erase any video in a specific period of time would not require any search warrant.
• You cannot assume what the Toronto Star would do, and in fact spending 4 years and not arresting anybody is a greater waste of taxpayers money.
• LE should not be concerned about 'winning' they are not in a popularity contest. Their job is to enforce the laws of the land. Some of these jobs are easy, like handing out speeding tickets, other are more difficult like arresting killers.

Apologies from me, not for TPS. I try to break down the information we read from any media, to remove the "flare" that even I myself add to try to be clear in my relating of thoughts to the public. Unfortunately it came off as defensive of TPS, not my intent. But I am not paid for my comments. Media are paid for every word they write, and if they are not writing words that make people want to pay to read it they have no job and nothing to say. Sadly we humans are drawn to these headlines that to me carry such heavy undertones, surely not positive vibes.

To my knowledge Law Enforcement personnel do not have any special powers. I have my private investigators license and I have no more rights than you do. I still abide by the same laws as LE and civilians, if we want private information you go to the courts for that. LE are law enforcers only, they are not paid to think right or wrong, they are to enforce the laws, period. It would not take months and months for TPS to obtain private information if they really did have more clout than a citizen. Maybe Government special op's have extra special powers but TPS do not.


Here are my responses to your list of questions/opinions of me :

• A simple phone call to the transportation agencies, to, not erase any video in a specific period of time would not require any search warrant.

Response: I agree that sounds very easy but if we think it through, 1st, day 1 Friday, the date they are found and any calls to hold video, would it have been back to Tues/Wed? who do you call, how many people do you need to call all these agencies within 24 hours? that would be hundreds of phone calls - see below transportation agency list - and how do you expect these agencies to "keep" and store this video, for how long? the solution they own today cannot handle that so are they to pay for this out of their own pocket, in case LE need it?

Category:Transit agencies in Ontario - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Pages in category "Transit agencies in Ontario"​

The following 82 pages are in this category, out of 82 total. This list may not reflect recent changes.

• You cannot assume what the Toronto Star would do, and in fact spending 4 years and not arresting anybody is a greater waste of taxpayers money.

I think personally I am allowed to assume anything I want, you seem to complete your opinion of me with your own assumption?

• LE should not be concerned about 'winning' they are not in a popularity contest. Their job is to enforce the laws of the land. Some of these jobs are easy, like handing out speeding tickets, other are more difficult like arresting killers.

Poor choice of word on my part, TPS are not attempting to "win". Thankfully we have different departments in LE agencies, traffic police and then trained detectives who investigate crimes. I become defensive when it is in public view and pushed by media sources that LE cannot be trusted or respected to do their job. That they all must be so stupid because they could not "Arrest"! someone.

Thankfully since LE must take their time and be 100% sure before making any arrest that we will not see another case like Guy Paul Morin, who because the public's wanted to see an arrest and he was different than others, he was the guy and they made it fit. Or go the other way, make an arrest too early and have an OJ Simpson drama.

 

[WINDSOR]

deugirtni said.......​

"But that suggests dangerous tunnel vision, from the beginning. Even if they 'knew' that 'John Smith' was the culprit (which, how could they know right away?) - he may not have necessarily have done the deed himself in person, and whoever his hired hand may have been, may have entered and exited the country. Or maybe something comes up a bit later to rule out 'John Smith', now it's too late to gather airport footage. That doesn't sound smart either way. We're not dealing with BF Egypt, this is Toronto."

Googled BF Egypt, had a chuckle.

No doubt the TPS initially focused on a group or individual, based on analysis of past crime statistics. (similar to; Wife dead, where was Hubby?). If early on, the TPS might have received some corroborating information that their focus was correct.

Rather than tunnel vision, this might be described as 'laser sharp focus' on the individual(s) who would benefit(follow the money) and had 'issues' with the deceased prior to their deaths.

There have been a number of high-profile cases involving affluent Canadians, where the perp was very close to the decedents. These cases likely influenced the TPS in some way.

Since in my opinion, no other credible suspects have arisen, this where I believe the TPS are.

 

[casesensitive]

This is and has been my thinking for a long time. That they do know who the mastermind is but need an air tight case in order to charge. We can't assume that LE is resting on their laurels because we are not getting updates. I don't think the public is privy to every detail of the ongoing investigation. This case is not a threat to society at large. It's targeted.

Of course the public is not privy to every detail the investigation.
I think we all know that police have important information in homicide cases that will never be released to the public. We can all agree that "hold back" info can jeopardize a case and we don't expect to hear it.

But, as the judge hearing the many court presiding's between Kevin and TPS, stated early on, when commending Kevin Donovan for his efforts in keeping the police investigation under scrutiny and accountability, and that he was doing a very important role for the public in this regard. I think some people don't realize that police need to be accountable.

KD is an awarding winning journalist, and some people dismissing his passion in this case, as a media money maker, is unfair. He proceeded to go to court on his own, without the Toronto Star backing.

I am pro-police, but I have also learned that they make mistakes, and TPS had a recent example of making grave mistakes just before the Sherman murders. They may have been preoccupied with that case. (Bruce McArthur).

 

[dotr]

5 enduring mysteries of the Barry and Honey Sherman murders

After nearly five years, the homicide case involving pharma billionaires continues to perplex investigators.

www.pharmavoice.com

Nov. 28, 2022 Meagan Parrish
Snippets.

''Why did it take so long for the police to rule it a double homicide?''​

''Aside from the fact that no one in the family believed Barry would take Honey’s life and then his own, the murder-suicide angle had other holes:''

''Why were they in that eerie pose?​

When the Shermans’ real estate agent found their bodies, she wasn’t just struck by the fact that they were dead. She also noticed that they were posed in a way that was strangely similar to two life-sized sculptures of human figures in the couple’s home.
''Why would someone take the time to carefully position the bodies like a piece of art the couple owned?
Donovan’s investigation into the origins of the sculptures did not reveal any answers as to why the scene was staged the way it was. But, Donovan noted, “I can’t see how it doesn’t mean something.”

''Was the pharma industry somehow involved?​

The most common conspiracy theories floated around the case involve some kind of plot by Big Pharma. From rumors that an Israeli generics firm was involved to theories that The Clinton Foundation ordered the hit over a dispute related to drugs Apotex sent to Puerto Rico, Haiti and Rwanda for relief efforts — Donovan said he continues to get calls about a potential pharma connection.''

''Who is the “walking man?”​

Last December, police released video footage of what could be the killer on his way to the scene of the crime. ''

''Who’s responsible for their deaths?​

This, of course, is the biggest mystery of all. At the end of his book, Donovan posits that the killer must have had an “intimate knowledge” of the Shermans “including their routines,” given the timing and location of the murders.
“Did Barry and Honey Sherman know their killers? I believe so,” Donovan writes.''

 

[dotr]

Nov 30 2022

https://www.cbc.ca/mediacentre/prog...ful-lives-and-''tragic-deaths-of-barry-and-ho

THE NO-GOOD, TERRIBLY KIND, WONDERFUL LIVES AND TRAGIC DEATHS OF BARRY AND HONEY SHERMAN is an eight-part investigation into the Shermans’ incredible rise and mysterious end. The podcast shines a light on what extreme wealth does to people and their families. It's a peek into the lives of Toronto’s rich and powerful, reported and narrated by veteran podcaster Kathleen Goldhar. Each episode unveils a theory about their deaths, pulling the audience into a dark puzzle of murder and intrigue. Along the way, listeners will get inside the mind of an enigmatic man — Barry Sherman, voiced by actor Saul Rubinek (Hunters).''

 

[WINDSOR]

Nov 30 2022

https://www.cbc.ca/mediacentre/prog...ful-lives-and-''tragic-deaths-of-barry-and-ho

THE NO-GOOD, TERRIBLY KIND, WONDERFUL LIVES AND TRAGIC DEATHS OF BARRY AND HONEY SHERMAN is an eight-part investigation into the Shermans’ incredible rise and mysterious end. The podcast shines a light on what extreme wealth does to people and their families. It's a peek into the lives of Toronto’s rich and powerful, reported and narrated by veteran podcaster Kathleen Goldhar. Each episode unveils a theory about their deaths, pulling the audience into a dark puzzle of murder and intrigue. Along the way, listeners will get inside the mind of an enigmatic man — Barry Sherman, voiced by actor Saul Rubinek (Hunte

Any idea when it will be broadcast?

 

[dotr]

Any idea when it will be broadcast?

Oops, meant to include it, also this link is better, the one i posted ^ suddenly not valid.

https://www.cbc.ca/mediacentre/program/the-no-good-terribly-kind-wonderful-lives-and-tragic-deaths-of-barry-and-ho

''Program Name​

THE NO-GOOD, TERRIBLY KIND, WONDERFUL LIVES AND TRAGIC DEATHS OF BARRY AND HONEY SHERMAN

Schedule​

Launching Monday, February 20, 2023''

 

[WINDSOR]

To Bobbi Pearl,

What I meant by Law Enforcement having special powers is they can do things ordinary individuals cannot. For example they do not have to have probable cause (in Ontario) to stop a driver and demand license, registration and proof of insurance.

 

[WINDSOR]

The anniversary of the murders is coming soon. Anybody expecting a TPS Press Conference?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

The anniversary of the murders is coming soon. Anybody expecting a TPS Press Conference?

Sadly, no. Just a gut feeling.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I just reread dotr’s post above and the eerie positioning of the bodies has to be a clue to something. Have LE investigated thé friends who gave H and B the statues?

 

[dotr]

The anniversary of the murders is coming soon. Anybody expecting a TPS Press Conference?

At one time i expected KD to have written another book with all the trial details and maybe even an explanation for the bizarre aspects of the murders.

Then i worried that if the ''divorce'' involving the two owners of the T. Star took place, that KD's articles on the Sherman case might be compromised or discontinued.

Which then led me to a hypothetical question: If someone was affluent enough to straight out buy a newspaper like The Star, would they have any ownership of KD's findings, and what if the fictional new owner was a member of the Sherman family? speculation, imo, fwiw.

Nov 18 2022

Torstar co-owners say focused on quick ‘divorce’ in public appearance

TORONTO - Speaking for the first time publicly since their business relationship soured, Torstar Corp. owners Paul Rivett and Jordan Bitove confirmed there was no reconciliation ahead as their approaches to business were too different.

www.thestar.com

ETA
Totally expecting a comment from TPS or a KD article.

 

[Kittybunny]

I, too, have been following this case from the very beginning, and it is frustrating that it has not yet been solved. However, I will say that one can never lose hope, look at the Delphi murders of Abby and Libby from 2017, there was video in that case, but it seemed like everything was stalled, and then bam, an arrest in that case. What solved it was a missed tip/interview with the actual murderer early on that re-surfaced. Perhaps it would behoove law-enforcement in this case to start from the beginning and review everything with a fine tooth comb.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

At one time i expected KD to have written another book with all the trial details and maybe even an explanation for the bizarre aspects of the murders.

Then i worried that if the ''divorce'' involving the two owners of the T. Star took place, that KD's articles on the Sherman case might be compromised or discontinued.

Which then led me to a hypothetical question: If someone was affluent enough to straight out buy a newspaper like The Star, would they have any ownership of KD's findings, and what if the fictional new owner was a member of the Sherman family? speculation, imo, fwiw.

Nov 18 2022

Torstar co-owners say focused on quick ‘divorce’ in public appearance

TORONTO - Speaking for the first time publicly since their business relationship soured, Torstar Corp. owners Paul Rivett and Jordan Bitove confirmed there was no reconciliation ahead as their approaches to business were too different.

www.thestar.com

ETA
Totally expecting a comment from TPS or a KD article.

I think the new owners would now *own* all content and future content. I also think the new owners could pick and choose which writers/articles they wish to publish.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

The statues

WATCH: Striking similarities between Sherman murder scene and sculptures in the family home

The Toronto Star reports the sculptures, like the Shermans, were in a seated position. Barry Sherman, just like the male figure, had one leg crossed over the other.

www.iheartradio.ca